Tipping

Exactly. I always hated that term "living wage". Just like "minimum wage". The market should set the wage.
The market has always set wages! That’s why so few jobs are minimum wage already, and fewer today than ever.
Fewer Americans today make the federal minimum wage or less.

In 1980, when the federal minimum wage was $3.10 ($9.86 in 2019 dollars), 13% of hourly workers earned the federal minimum wage or less. Today, only 1.9% of hourly workers do. The number of federal minimum wage workers has decreased from 7.7 million in 1980 to 1.6 million in 2019.

https://usafacts.org/articles/minimum-wage-america-how-many-people-are-earning-725-hour/
 
The market has always set wages! That’s why so few jobs are minimum wage already, and fewer today than ever.

https://usafacts.org/articles/minimum-wage-america-how-many-people-are-earning-725-hour/

Someone else mentioned it, but minimum wage laws effectively don't just affect those making minimum wage, but various tiers above minimum wage as well. If the low end suddenly gets a hike to a new higher minimum wage, then the person who had already been making that much or more gets a boost so that he's still making about as much more than the low end employee as before, and so on up the chain of higher incomes. And this isn't just within one business, but across businesses as well, since employees can always be lured away if all employees don't get a similar pay increase as the low end minimum wage worker.

So looking only at the number making exactly minimum wage is misleading. Even more so, because minimum wage varies between states significantly. It's high in my state, and employers always complain about the burden, raise prices, cut services, or go out of business.

For the market to truly set wages, there would be no "minimum wage".
 
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Someone else mentioned it, but minimum wage laws effectively don't just affect those making minimum wage, but various tiers above minimum wage as well. If the low end suddenly gets a hike to a new higher minimum wage, then the person who had already been making that much or more gets a boost so that he's still making about as much more than the low end employee as before, and so on up the chain of higher incomes. Generally not true. And this isn't just within one business, but across businesses as well, since employees can always be lured away if all employees don't get a similar pay increase as the low end minimum wage worker.

So looking only at the number making exactly minimum wage is misleading. Even more so, because minimum wage varies between states significantly. It's high in my state, and employers always complain about the burden, raise prices, cut services, or go out of business.

For the market to truly set wages, there would be no "minimum wage".
Dig a little deeper. And again, the "low end" is on 1.9% of workers, so minimum wage has very little influence on higher wages. Minimum wage simply sets a floor, that 98.1% of businesses ignore...
We found that increasing the minimum wage had no statistically significant impact on the total number of labor hours employed at a given store. In other words, stores hired workers to work for the same overall number of hours regardless of whether minimum wage increased.

However, our data suggests that the way in which those hours were allocated among workers did change. For every $1 increase in the minimum wage, we found that the total number of workers scheduled to work each week increased by 27.7%, while the average number of hours each worker worked per week decrease by 20.8%. For an average store in California, these changes translated into four extra workers per week and five fewer hours per worker per week — which meant that the total wage compensation of an average minimum wage worker in a California store actually fell by 13.6%.

This decrease in the average number of hours worked not only reduced total wages, but also impacted eligibility for benefits. We found that for every $1 increase in minimum wage, the percentage of workers working more than 20 hours per week (making them eligible for retirement benefits) decreased by 23.0%, while the percentage of workers with more than 30 hours per week (making them eligible for health care benefits) decreased by 14.9%. This suggests that as minimum wage increases, firms may strategically adjust their scheduling practices to reduce the number of workers eligible for benefits: Our estimates suggest that the average store in our California data set recouped approximately 27.5% of the increase in its wage costs through savings associated with reducing benefits.

In addition to the direct reduction in wage compensation and associated reduction in eligibility for benefits, we also found that increasing minimum wage led to less consistent work schedules, both in terms of the number of hours employees worked from one week to the next, and in terms of the timing of those shifts. A $1 increase in the minimum wage corresponded to a 33.0% increase in fluctuations in the number of hours worked per week, a 9.5% increase in fluctuations in the number of hours worked per day, and 9.8% increase in fluctuations of shift start times. Furthermore, this negative impact on scheduling consistency was generally more severe for workers who had held their jobs for less time, suggesting that newer employees were particularly impacted by these shifts. Research has shown that a lack of schedule consistency can make it significantly harder for hourly workers to coordinate job activities with their personal lives, balance multiple jobs, and ensure long-term financial stability.

Between these three factors, our data suggests that the combination of reduced hours, eligibility for benefits, and schedule consistency that resulted from a $1 increase in the minimum wage added up to average net losses of at least $1,590 per year per employee — equivalent to 11.6% of workers’ total wage compensation (and this is assuming that workers were able to use their reduced hours to work a second job — an assumption which may not hold true for many employees).
https://hbr.org/2021/06/research-when-a-higher-minimum-wage-leads-to-lower-compensation
 
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I have occasionally been offered a tip, and always politely declined. It is quite unnecessary.

People should receive the wage or rate they contracted for. Tipping (paying extra) is for credulous fools.
 
Dig a little deeper. And again, the "low end" is on 1.9% of workers, so minimum wage has very little influence on higher wages. Minimum wage simply sets a floor, that 98.1% of businesses ignore...

They can't ignore and pay less than minimum wage. At my employer, there were different scales that different jobs fell on. And whenever there was a minimum wage increase, they not only increased the low end of each scale for some of the lower paying jobs, but they increased the top end of each of those scales also. So everyone in those jobs got a pay increase, not just those making below minimum wage. Of course, I was making a lot more, so I didn't get a pay increase, so I essentially got what amounted to a pay cut due to having to pay higher prices due to additional inflation when prices immediately went up as a result of employers having to pay the higher wages.

Like I said, if the market actually set the wages, there would be no need for the government setting a minimum wage, which is definitely too high in my area.
 
Maybe this has been reported already.

A friend showed me a restaruant bill with 4% 'Health Insurance for Staff' added. It says you can ask your waiter to remove it if you want. What else will they add to the bill next?
 
Maybe this has been reported already.

A friend showed me a restaruant bill with 4% 'Health Insurance for Staff' added. It says you can ask your waiter to remove it if you want. What else will they add to the bill next?

They'll keep on adding things as long as people keep paying them.
 
Every store uses sq, clover, or something like that and tipping is now mandatory screen. I don't get why I need to tip to buy a shirt and I don't.

I think it's the programming. But it really is obnoxious how much tipping is required on EVERYTHING.
 
Every store uses sq, clover, or something like that and tipping is now mandatory screen. I don't get why I need to tip to buy a shirt and I don't.

I think it's the programming. But it really is obnoxious how much tipping is required on EVERYTHING.

I think of it as a kind of extortion to make the customers feel cheap for supposedly not caring for the help. I wonder where that money for the health insurance and mandatory tipping ends up.
 
I will ask for the line item to be removed.

The restaurant price should reflect the cost of paying the staff, not be kept artificially low to get people into the restaurant.


Maybe this has been reported already.

A friend showed me a restaruant bill with 4% 'Health Insurance for Staff' added. It says you can ask your waiter to remove it if you want. What else will they add to the bill next?
 
Yes, it is usually written in a way that makes it sound like the restaurant is only looking after their wonderful staff, so you should, too. I resent any attempts to guilt me into doing anything.

I think of it as a kind of extortion to make the customers feel cheap for supposedly not caring for the help. I wonder where that money for the health insurance and mandatory tipping ends up.
 
Just saw one today. 3.5% "temporary inflation allowance".

You really have to look at the bill.
 
My physician has told me I should cut back the caffeine as I age. Something about the heart and bones but that's another topic. So, I wandered over to my local coffee watering hole and thought I would check out their brand of premium decaf coffee. I wanted to buy a bag and compare that to the much cheaper decaf beans I buy at Costco. The 12 ounce bag as $12.97. Then the new computerized register system that they recently installed offered me tip suggestions. The cheapest suggestion was 18% or about $2.30. I hit the Other button and tipped $1. 18% really? The person behind the counter did nothing more than operate the register. I did everything else including putting the bag of coffee into the bag I had brought with me. Note, that in my state tipped jobs still get the full minimum wage that non-tipped jobs are paid.
 
I don’t fault the employee at the coffee shop, since that’s likely the default for all payments, regardless if you’re only buying a bag of coffee.

I noticed in the UK, the only time I was prompted for a tip in a pub was when I ordered food. When I came back and ordered drinks, I wasn’t prompted. And it only happened at one pub. In most pubs they didn’t ask for a tip.

I thought it was interesting, because clearly the bartender was able to select if they should or shouldn’t prompt for a tip.
 
I think some of these tipping practices must be regional. I haven't seen any of these surcharges or mandatory tipping in my area. I tip generously for good service at sit-down restaurants or brewpubs and a buck or three to bartenders providing good service at the bar. That's pretty much it. For the rest of the employees, compensation is between them and their employer. I don't feel guilty tapping for no tip.
 
They'll keep on adding things as long as people keep paying them.

Best post of the thread.
Stop tipping in all exchanges where tipping was unheard of in the recent past.
Stop giving in to 'tip shaming tactics'

Related:
Just got back from Hy-Vee grocery store. Had no choice but to do self-checkout because they didn't have enough employees manning the full service lanes.

Then they have the nerve to ask me if I want to donate to charity ?
Why don't 'you' take the money you saved via me scanning & bagging my own groceries & donate it to the charity of your choice ?
 
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Just got back from Hy-Vee grocery store. Had no choice but to do self check out because they didn't have enough employees manning the full service checkouts.



Then they have the nerve to ask me if I want to donate to charity ?

Why don't 'you' take the money you saved via me scanning & bagging my own groceries & donate it to the charity of your choice ?



It annoys me when major grocery stores publicize how much they are giving to charity. As if corporate profits are being reduced in the spirit of altruistic philanthropy. How about cutting prices so people can afford to donate to their own causes and charities.And if that’s not possible, at least be honest and give credit for donations to the customers who are funding them.
 
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One the coffee select "other" or "custom". Tip $0. It is just software.

On "mandatory tipping" this is done in some areas to combat non-tipping clientele.

You don't choose the amount, they choose for you by "policy".

Tipping is rarely mandatory. In fact mandatory tip is a contradiction.
 
I’m traveling and today was checking out from the lovely boutique hotel in Ponta Delgada (Azores). I’ve had a nice lady serving me breakfast for the last five days so I really wanted to tip her. And she declined to take the money, saying: “it’s my job”. It wasn’t just teasing - she flat out refused.
 
They'll keep on adding things as long as people keep paying them.
Just saw one today. 3.5% "temporary inflation allowance".

You really have to look at the bill.
Don't just decline the extra fees. More effective to completely stop going to restaurants that take that approach - there’s plenty of other options. Otherwise the extra fee restaurants will keep on doing it. And on the way out I’d tell them I’m not coming back and why, and let them know I will post it on several popular review websites so others are aware of the practice. There’s no reason not to include all costs in their prices, it’s BS to come up with extra or hidden fees to guilt patrons.
 
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More effective to completely stop going to restaurants that take that approach - there’s plenty of other options. Otherwise the extra fee restaurants will keep on doing it. And on the way out I’d tell them I’m not coming back and why, and let them know I will post it on several popular review websites so others are aware of the practice. There’s no reason not to include all costs in their prices, it’s BS to come up with extra or hidden fees to guilt patrons.


Agree with that... but so far have not had it yet..


Now, I have complained about the price increases as they seem higher than inflation at a number of places.. 30% to 50% at a lot of places.. since most seem to be doing this you just have to choose if you want to go or not...
 
Traveling in England.

Had lunch and they brought the terminal and it displayed a list of tipping percentages, 12.5% at the top.

While service is already included, according to TripAdvisor, more UK businesses are providing for tips. Says some top restaurants get up to 15%. Taxi drivers get to round up tips to the next pound but now you can pay with credit cards so no need to give a round number fare and tip with cash.

The waitress just tapped the bottom of the screen to get rid of the tip screen. I didn't even say anything, I was going to read the rest of the screen.
 
Diner last night

I always venture out of my town to eat out. Where I live, all the BMWs ands such bustle around, driven by people who want "fairness" and certainly enjoyed getting a free big rebate towards buying their new car - yes, I guess they were needy. Many them want "fairness" and "living wage"....but get annoyed by tipping someone, even though that worker doesn't have time to pontificate about living wages, but rather, has bills to pay. And to each their own, but this area is almost all organic farm to fork, overcharge, small lukewarm portions so for 10+ years, I've never eaten at a restaurant within the city limits.

20 minutes away is Trenton. It's a bit different there, it's not Club 401K-Ville. I'm familiar with it because at a time I did much business there and still have good friendships and ties but I digress..... I walk into the Diner with DD and it's a bit more busy due to this being a "Haaaaliday Weekend" but of course, Ms Renae sees me, waves me over to the booth and so friendly says - the water and Cream of Turkey is on the way" and tells me how her daughter is starting as an RN after the break.

The wonderful yet reasonable feast arrives, with my few usual requests perfectly taken care of.

Behind me, a server is rather abrupt with her table...borderline rude. When she leaves the couple comments to each other to just eat and get out.

Anyhow, Ms Renae I am happy to tip 25% or so to. But the server behind me? Sorry, but I'd rather not pay her the same.

So yeah, one day the Diner can jack up the entree price by XYZ% and eliminate tipping. Big deal - that just means I paid the same, just in another way. If I like that better even though my expense is exactly the same.....hmmm, maybe I'd have to be introspective as to why I'm fine spending mooney, but it irks me to pay someone directly for services rendered.

Just speaking solely for myself. Hopefully that is ok.

And yeah, the full Roast Turkey dinner was piping hot, great portion, and very satisfying.
 
I’m traveling and today was checking out from the lovely boutique hotel in Ponta Delgada (Azores). I’ve had a nice lady serving me breakfast for the last five days so I really wanted to tip her. And she declined to take the money, saying: “it’s my job”. It wasn’t just teasing - she flat out refused.

If you have a last meal, you gotta check this place out, Louvre Michaelense. We both loved the food. Back to the tipping...

https://maps.app.goo.gl/wH71egNe5nYMreFs5
 
I always venture out of my town to eat out. Where I live, all the BMWs ands such bustle around, driven by people who want "fairness" and certainly enjoyed getting a free big rebate towards buying their new car - yes, I guess they were needy...

I think that I know the town you are talking about. Nice small city on the Delaware.
 
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