Update on Cord Cutting (Cable TV) 2017 - 2020

[beowulf]

Think of all the clutter as a redistribution of TV - just like your taxes pay for some things you want and some things you don’t. Personally, I’d prefer a la cartel cable, but I really don’t think it would be much, if any, cheaper. In fact, it might even be more expensive. Just like bundles now tend to be cheaper, it’s probably cheaper for cable companies to put together a lot of channels than try to personalize 100s of them. Plus the added cost of programming and reprogramming everyone’s preferences, which will no doubt constantly change. YMMV.

 

[SmallCityDave]

We had Comcast for about 15 years, and used 600MB/mo (w 1TB cap) when we cut the cord and all our TV viewing was streaming for the last 16 months. We streamed and surfed more than I care to admit, I couldn't imagine how much more we'd have had to use to reach 1 TB, the closest we ever came was about 700MB at our worst. I never had any issue with Comcast's data usage, and you can see it every day or more often if you want to verify. YMMV

I am having much more trouble with AT&T, I had better service from Comcast/XFinity...

600Gb not MB right?

 

[Midpack]

600Gb not MB right?

Yes, thanks!

 

[davidfin]

Announcement from Comcast in today’s email. Feeling competitive pressure from FIOS?

We’re increasing your Internet download speed—beginning September 19th.

Fast and reliable Internet powers your life. It keeps you close to family and friends. Thank you for choosing us to be your trusted Internet provider.

We're making the network even better, and increasing your Internet speed from 60/5 to 75/5. Don't worry, this is included in your current Internet plan.

 

[explanade]

Not much of a bump in speeds.

 

[bUU]

And something they've been doing irregularly for years. They did the same in many areas in 2018, and in 2014-2015.

 

[Midpack]

Admittedly it's a very small cable provider, but they're killing off their cable TV service and will coach viewers on how to cut the cord. That coupled with AT&T clearly moving toward streaming. I'm surprised anyone still wants cable or satellite if they have internet access, but we've debated that enough...

It's also nice to see a cable/satellite provider admit streaming is much cheaper/better value versus the ones that keep trying to say otherwise (which is pure BS for most households). Spectrum has also subtly admitted same saying their average customer is spending over $180/mo for internet and TV without a DVR! You'd have to go way out of your way to spend $180/mo on internet and streaming, closer to $100/mo.

Beld Internet is shutting down it’s cable TV service due to the high costs of operation.”It’s true, replacing cable can cut your bills by 100 bucks or more each month. Stream your favorite shows and content while saving money,” their website now says. Formerly Beld Broadband, the Braintree Mass. based company announced their decision Monday September 23.

“As of December 2, 2019, BELD will no longer offer cable television service due to costs beyond our control,” Beld GM Bill Bottiggi said in a statement. “So for any Braintree … resident thinking about cutting the cord, now’s the time and we’ll coach you through it with straightforward, step-by-step guidance.”

It’s true – their website now has a section dedicated on how to cut the cord with FAQs, a list of suggested streaming providers, devices and more.

“Most streaming services generally cost much less than cable and eliminate the need for cable wires and unwieldy boxes (and their rental fees) on every TV. In all, streaming can save customers up to $1,000 or more each year,” the company continued.

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/cab...ys-theyll-coach-you-through-cutting-the-cord/

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/spectrum-admits-the-average-cable-tv-customer-pays-over-180-a-month/

 

[Cobra9777]

PBS will be on YouTube TV later this year

This press release is dated July 29, but I just saw it today. I don't remember it being posted here before.

This is a pretty big deal. YouTube TV will be the first of the new live streaming services to carry live streams of PBS member stations, plus full VOD and DVR functions. I've heard that other streaming services want PBS to put together some kind of national feed, which PBS has resisted. Hopefully, "later this year" is soon.

Also, YouTube just released their YouTube TV app for Fire TV. We have 3 Fire TV devices, so prior to this, YouTube TV was not an option for us. I've been getting increasingly irritated with PS Vue. They keep increasing prices and they just pushed the Science channel to one of the higher-priced tiers. And they charge an extra $5 for about a dozen sport channels that YouTube includes in their base $50 package.

I'm running out of reasons to not take YouTube TV for a test drive. Compared to PS Vue, price is lower, channel lineup is better, and PBS later this year.

 

[bloom2708]

Thanks for the info. We have all Fire TV boxes. I am trying to remember if we still have a Gen1 box.

No Fire TV support is the reason I have not tried YouTube TV.

3.5 years with PS Vue TV. My only complaint is the price increases (all over) and we don't get ABC live in our area.

I will likely do the trial subscription.

 

[Midpack]

FIFY

I'm running out of reasons to not take YouTube TV for a test drive. Compared to PS Vue, price is lower, channel lineup is better for Cobra, and PBS later this year.

I agree adding PBS is a big deal though the PBS app is free and the PBS NewsHour live streams on YouTube every day free.

PS Vue, Hulu Live and YouTube TV are all great drop-ins to completely replace cable or satellite at about half the cost for multi viewer households. Depends on what channels and features best fit your needs.

 

[Cobra9777]

...I agree adding PBS is a big deal though the PBS app is free and the PBS NewsHour live streams on YouTube every day free...

The PBS app is quite good, but the Passport is an additional $5/mo if you want access to the entire library. And the kicker for me is that many of our favorite shows from the local PBS station are not available on the app. Yes, PBS NewsHour live on regular YouTube is a nice workaround but just not as convenient as the real thing.

...Depends on what channels and features best fit your needs.

I probably should have said "more extensive" rather than "better." I just did a comprehensive, side-by-side comparison of the channel lineups using Excel. I compared YouTube TV $50 vs PS Vue "Access", also $50. There are only two channels on PS Vue Access that are not carried by YouTube TV (Spotlight and Baby First)... I have no idea what those are. OTOH, there are 27 channels on YouTube TV that are not included with PS Vue Access. Of those, 11 are the aforementioned sports channels, which PS Vue includes with the "Core" package for $5 more. The rest are just additional channels, many of which are quality names like the Smithsonian Channel, BBC World News, Nat Geo Wild, and several others.

So if you're happy with the channel line-up on PS Vue Access, you'll get 27 additional channels with YouTube TV for the same price. If you have PS Vue Core, you'll get all the same sports channels for $5 less, plus 16 additional channels.

 

[Midpack]

The PBS app is quite good, but the Passport is an additional $5/mo if you want access to the entire library. And the kicker for me is that many of our favorite shows from the local PBS station are not available on the app. Yes, PBS NewsHour live on regular YouTube is a nice workaround but just not as convenient as the real thing.

I probably should have said "more extensive" rather than "better." I just did a comprehensive, side-by-side comparison of the channel lineups using Excel. I compared YouTube TV $50 vs PS Vue "Access", also $50. There are only two channels on PS Vue Access that are not carried by YouTube TV (Spotlight and Baby First)... I have no idea what those are. OTOH, there are 27 channels on YouTube TV that are not included with PS Vue Access. Of those, 11 are the aforementioned sports channels, which PS Vue includes with the "Core" package for $5 more. The rest are just additional channels, many of which are quality names like the Smithsonian Channel, BBC World News, Nat Geo Wild, and several others.

So if you're happy with the channel line-up on PS Vue Access, you'll get 27 additional channels with YouTube TV for the same price. If you have PS Vue Core, you'll get all the same sports channels for $5 less, plus 16 additional channels.

We've had the PS Vue Core package all along, Access wouldn't have been enough. PS Vue just went up $5/mo last month, I'm not going to flip every time there's a price change. YouTube TV went from $40 to $50 pretty quickly too. PS Vue will allow streaming on up to 5 devices, YouTube TV only 3. PS Vue has a matrix style channel guide, a must for DW. YouTube TV didn't have a conventional matrix channel guide last time I looked, maybe they've added one? Both have the Netflix style icon guides, very different for anyone coming from cable or satellite, and a deal breaker for DW (pick your battles...).

There is no best. If we drop PS Vue, we'll probably go to Hulu Live. YouTube TV is certainly a good choice too.

I'm glad it looks like YTTV will fit your needs.

 

[Cobra9777]

We've had the PS Vue Core package all along, Access wouldn't have been enough. PS Vue just went up $5/mo last month, I'm not going to flip every time there's a price change. YouTube TV went from $40 to $50 pretty quickly too. PS Vue will allow streaming on up to 5 devices, YouTube TV only 3. PS Vue has a matrix style channel guide, a must for DW. YouTube TV didn't have a conventional matrix channel guide last time I looked, maybe they've added one? Both have the Netflix style icon guides, very different for anyone coming from cable or satellite, and a deal breaker for DW (pick your battles...).

There is no best. If we drop PS Vue, we'll probably go to Hulu Live. YouTube TV is certainly a good choice too.

I'm glad it looks like YTTV will fit your needs.

It's not just the price increases with PS Vue. It's things like pushing the Science channel to the Elite package and replacing it with Baby First (whatever that is). They are diluting the product, while raising prices... which I guess is not surprising, given that they are a distant 4th or 5th in marketshare. For me, PBS on YTTV later this year was the motivation I needed to get over the momentum with PS Vue and test the competitive waters.

Regarding the channel guide, I've only been using it for about 10 minutes now, so definitely not an expert. But YTTV does have a somewhat conventional matrix guide, with the channels running down the left vertical axis and time running left-to-right horizontally across the top. PS Vue's guide reversed those, which was odd but we eventually got used to it. Also, PS Vue shows the broadcast networks first (which is traditional) and then everything else was in alphabetical order. YTTV puts the networks first and then "groups" the channels similar to cable/satellite, with all the sports channels together, all news channels together, etc. I'm not sure if that's better or worse in terms of finding a channel, but they do seem to be trying to make it similar to cable.

I agree that Hulu looks like another great alternative. I'll probably do a free trial with them as well before I decide.

 

[Midpack]

It's not just the price increases with PS Vue. It's things like pushing the Science channel to the Elite package and replacing it with Baby First (whatever that is). They are diluting the product, while raising prices... which I guess is not surprising, given that they are a distant 4th or 5th in marketshare. For me, PBS on YTTV later this year was the motivation I needed to get over the momentum with PS Vue and test the competitive waters.

Regarding the channel guide, I've only been using it for about 10 minutes now, so definitely not an expert. But YTTV does have a somewhat conventional matrix guide, with the channels running down the left vertical axis and time running left-to-right horizontally across the top. PS Vue's guide reversed those, which was odd but we eventually got used to it. Also, PS Vue shows the broadcast networks first (which is traditional) and then everything else was in alphabetical order. YTTV puts the networks first and then "groups" the channels similar to cable/satellite, with all the sports channels together, all news channels together, etc. I'm not sure if that's better or worse in terms of finding a channel, but they do seem to be trying to make it similar to cable.

I agree that Hulu looks like another great alternative. I'll probably do a free trial with them as well before I decide.

Odd, we’ve had PS Vue with Roku’s since Feb ‘18 the channel guide has networks vertical and time horizontally across the top. You must have different hardware. And favorites allows us to choose which channels we see first, with all the rest after alphabetically. Nice feature.

When we cut the cord YouTube TV and Hulu Live we’re barely available. It was PS Vue, Direct TV Now (glad I didn’t choose that) and Sling TV (with no majors - ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox). When YouTube TV rolled out it had no matrix guide and it was only from smartphone or tablet to Chromecast. Now it’s on other platforms.

PlayStation Vue is a good product with a horrible name, people think they have to have a PlayStation to use it. It may never catch on, in which case we’ll go to Hulu Live.

 

[RunningBum]

Dish is having a spat with Fox and dropped some of the sports networks I'm interested in, for now. I'm away this Saturday so it doesn't matter but I'll be starting a trail of whatever streaming service fits me best. Last time I investigated, YouTube TV looked best for me so I'm glad to hear the app is available without dealing with sideloading.

 

[robls]

Finally dropped cable tv. Switched to Sling TV Blue and Total TV addon. Record local channels on HD Homerun using clothes hanger as my antenna in attic. lol. Saving $47 a month.

 

[pb4uski]

Admittedly it's a very small cable provider, but they're killing off their cable TV service and will coach viewers on how to cut the cord. That coupled with AT&T clearly moving toward streaming. I'm surprised anyone still wants cable or satellite if they have internet access, but we've debated that enough...

It's also nice to see a cable/satellite provider admit streaming is much cheaper/better value versus the ones that keep trying to say otherwise (which is pure BS for most households). Spectrum has also subtly admitted same saying their average customer is spending over $180/mo for internet and TV without a DVR! You'd have to go way out of your way to spend $180/mo on internet and streaming, closer to $100/mo.

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/cab...ys-theyll-coach-you-through-cutting-the-cord/

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/spectrum-admits-the-average-cable-tv-customer-pays-over-180-a-month/

Also see: https://www.beldinternet.com/

 

[Cobra9777]

Odd, we’ve had PS Vue with Roku’s since Feb ‘18 the channel guide has networks vertical and time horizontally across the top. You must have different hardware...

Hmmm, that is odd. We use Fire TV, not Roku. So I guess the guide works differently on different hardware. Here's a short how-to video on YouTube produced by PS Vue to explain the guide. The video was posted July 22, 2019. It clearly shows what we have, which is time running vertically on the left and channels running horizontally across the top. Very unconventional, but as I said, we eventually got used to it. If you Google the topic, you'll find lots of complaining. I also found a discussion on reddit from Nov 2017 that explains the new (more conventional) guide layout on Roku.

On YTTV, the guide can be customized so that channels appear in any order desired and channels can be removed completely if desired. I've also noticed that almost all video is 1080p (PS Vue is 720p). But still no 5.1 surround sound that I can find... although I've read that YTTV is rolling out 5.1 in stages starting with some VOD.

 

[bloom2708]

I started the 5 day trial of YouTube TV last night on a Fire TV box.

I was pretty impressed. The app is very fast (compared to PS Vue). Controls are very simplistic compared to some of the features available with PS Vue. But, that might not be all that bad.

The channel lineup is very comparable to the Core plan. $5 cheaper. DVR functions seem very good. Finding shows and the picture quality is comparable to Vue.

We get ABC on YouTube TV and that is not on Vue for our market.

3.5 years on Vue and I am considering switching. I guess I have 4 days to figure it out.

We do have 2 Gen1 FireTV boxes that are not compatible with YTTV, but that is pretty minor. I have been worried they are getting long in the tooth anyway.

Anyone else recently try YTTV on Fire TV?

 

[Rustic23]

YTTV just went live, I believe Monday, on Fire TV. There have been side loaded version, but the actual YTTV app is now live. I have Apple, Roku, Chrome, and Amazon. Also several android tv boxes (cheap ones). I did not see any difference in the way YTTV performed on the Fire as the Roku. The Apple is noticeably faster. I despise the Apple controller and I use an Inteset remote, actually two, one for DW and one for me. That makes Apple the best choice for me. Having said that, I would not buy an Apple at their price, I got mine 'free' with a Direct TV Now subscription.

 

[REWahoo]

Anyone else recently try YTTV on Fire TV?

I finished up a free 3 week trial of YTTV on 9/26 - but on Roku, not Fire TV. I was comparing it to Hulu+Live TV which I had been using for the previous month.

I agree with your assessment of the streaming quality. It worked well for us but I didn't see any significant difference between it and Hulu, so went back to Hulu since it is $5/mo less.

The recent addition to Hulu Live of a "cable-like" program guide (rolled out to Roku and Apple TV with others to come) is a real plus. Without that I would be tempted to pay the extra $5 for YTTV.

 

[Cobra9777]

...Anyone else recently try YTTV on Fire TV?

We just started our 5-day free trial of YTTV last night. We have 3 Fire TV boxes (two gen2, one Cube). We've had PS Vue for a couple years. DW reluctantly agreed to use YTTV instead of PS Vue for a few days. She's the main user. I only use it for live sports.

So far, she likes the navigation better and some of the additional channels that we didn't get with PS Vue. She also likes the guide, DVR, and easy search function. But she hasn't used it very much yet. She's fixated on losing the Hallmark channel if we switch. We had Hallmark for part of the year with PS Vue when I would upgrade to Core for baseball season (only way to get regional Fox sports).

I like the interface better. It seems simpler, faster, and more intuitive. Picture quality is better, with most (not all) streams at 1080p. Disappointed in the lack of 5.1 surround sound but they say it's coming. Very excited for PBS later this year. Voice commands with Alexa work same as with PS Vue. Customizable guide is nice. No ads embedded in the guide is even nicer. Seems to be TONS of on-demand content and movies. It's $5 less than PS Vue Core, which is the most comparable channel line-up.

One thing I've noticed... with the app being so new to Fire TV, the integration with the Fire TV platform is not as deep as with PS Vue. For example, in the Fire TV settings under Live TV, it does not recognize YTTV as a live TV source. For us, it shows PS Vue and Pluto. So on the main Fire TV screen, there is no row of icons for YTTV as there is for PS Vue. There is also no YTTV content under the "Live" menu selection. And no YTTV content shown in the Fire TV live guide. I assume this will be coming at some point in the future. I also noticed that voice searches using the Fire TV remote do not bring up YTTV content. So there's still a ways to go on integration.

 

[RunningBum]

We just started our 5-day free trial of YTTV last night. We have 3 Fire TV boxes (two gen2, one Cube). We've had PS Vue for a couple years. DW reluctantly agreed to use YTTV instead of PS Vue for a few days. She's the main user. I only use it for live sports.

How are you finding sports to watch? I was visiting family last week and they had Hulu. ESPN was fine, but watching football on the networks was clearly at 30 frames/sec. Choppy. A pass looked like - - - - - instead of a solid line.

 

[Cobra9777]

How are you finding sports to watch? I was visiting family last week and they had Hulu. ESPN was fine, but watching football on the networks was clearly at 30 frames/sec. Choppy. A pass looked like - - - - - instead of a solid line.

I haven't actually watched a football game yet. Just signed up last night. But to answer your question, I tuned to some soccer on TNT and it was 1080P 60 fps. On the pull-down menu at the bottom of each stream, YTTV has a button called "stats for nerds." It provides the resolution, fps, and lots of other technical information about the stream. I also checked a college football game replay on ESPN-U and some track and field on NBCSN, and they were all 1080p 60 fps. I only watched them each for a minute or so but it looked really good. Hopefully the networks will be the same for sports programming.

 

[REWahoo]

How are you finding sports to watch? I was visiting family last week and they had Hulu. ESPN was fine, but watching football on the networks was clearly at 30 frames/sec. Choppy. A pass looked like - - - - - instead of a solid line.

I've recently watched football on both Hulu Live and YTTV and had absolutely no issues. I even toggled back and forth on a network (ABC) game between OTA and Hulu Live and the only difference I could see was was the Hulu stream was a few seconds behind the OTA broadcast. No discernible difference in picture quality or frame speed.

EDIT: Just saw this was posted yesterday...

Hulu Live TV offers 60 fps support on all channels, except local CBS affiliates. They recently added support for all Fire TV devices, so you can now stream in 60 fps on all streaming devices.

https://thestreamable.com/live-tv-streaming/hulu-live-tv/60-fps-channels

You must have been watching a CBS stream to see the - - - - - pass.