Utterly lost. Can somebody please point me in the right direction?

[REWahoo]

She has worked a little, but she stayed home for almost all of our daughters juvenile years, and up until my injury, only worked when she felt like it, because we were living well within our means.

The following quote from your initial post indicates otherwise:

At this point I should explain that our situation is complicated by some debt that we are carrying... We paid about $150K in debt down to $71K by the time I got injured. Now, with no overtime, the best I can do is to pay down our debt at the rate of about $2,000 a month, which means that we're still gonna be carrying about $63K of low-interest debt if/when I retire in August.

 

[Christian]

+1

I've lost family to cancer, too. My mother passed from it after an 11 year battle. I can fully understand wanting to spend as much time as possible with someone, just in case, but I had to continue working full time to pay her medical bills, at the time.

I'm so sorry to hear that.

Plus, the care giving involved during my off-work hours was like another full-time job.

Wow, you're not kidding. I would not have understood that until I experienced it. I had no idea how much work my wife did around the house...until she wasn't doing it. I took over all the dishes, laundry, cooking, etc. but the time to bathe her, deal with her surgical drains, dress her, and all that has been just like you said- another full-time job.

I'm actually kind of thankful that my surgery was a month or so before hers, so that I was healed up enough to start caring for her, and able to stay home to do so.

A $45K car is an unnecessary luxury under the circumstances.

I've been over this multiple times- my car is getting sold, as soon as I retire.

And having no car during the period of time that I still need a car, doesn't make sense.

Which means that if I sell it BEFORE I retire, I'd need to replace it with something else.

It would be very short-sighted to assume that the overall cost of a car is measured solely by it's sale price. You have to consider the interest rate, depreciation, fuel mileage, warranty status, repairs, maintenance, etc.. In the case of my car, it's financed at 1.99%, is not materially depreciating, gets great fuel mileage, and is still under factory warranty. This speaks to the old saying "The cheapest car to buy is the one you already own". It's basic math.

For those failing to grasp this, there are some specific examples that I can list, but I don't want for this thread to head off-topic. This thread is for me to learn, not to teach- if somebody wants to start a different thread on vehicle ownership expenses, I would be happy to help out there.

No matter what anyone says, if it's not what OP wants to hear, it's summarily dismissed.

No, it has nothing to do with what I want to hear.

The only stuff that I'm dismissing, is stuff that is inapplicable (maybe they didn't actually read my post) and/or just plain bad math (maybe just not good with cars).

 

[Lcountz]

Christian one question...Do you live in Washington DC, and have you ever considered moving to the midwest?

 

[Christian]

While I have nothing to offer I certainly hope this is not a trolling situation. Karma and all that stuff.

It's not, and I don't appreciate the trolling comments- it is incredibly insensitive. This is the woman I love, and she's asking me to do something that I don't know how to do...yet.

 

[Christian]

Christian one question...Do you live in Washington DC, and have you ever considered moving to the midwest?

We do not live in DC. I've never actually been any further east than Texas. We'd like to tour the U.S. (including the Midwest), and after that we will decide where to settle.

Why do you ask?

 

[foxfirev5]

It's not, and I don't appreciate the trolling comments- it is incredibly insensitive. This is the woman I love, and she's asking me to do something that I don't know how to do...yet.

As I stated " I hope". You're inability to accept this premise adds to my concern. Checking out.

 

[Christian]

You have good reasons for wanting to retire and I understand the desire to do so. I suspect everyone reading the thread understands too.

I appreciate that.

Most people planning on retiring at 56/41 have done a better job of preparing to do so however. This has come through in the tone of many responses. Not many folks would be comfortable pulling off what you plan to do.

We weren't planning to retire at 56/41. We had a different plan, but cancer changed that.

We realize that our life choices may be a little unconventional and may not fit other people's definition of "comfortable", but that doesn't make our life choices wrong.

Selling my car when I need a car to get back and forth to medical appointments would be wrong.

Selling my car when I may need a car to get to work until I retire would be wrong.

Buying a replacement car that I'm going to have to dispose of in a few months would be wrong.

Trading a 1.99% loan for a 5% loan would be wrong.

Trading a car that doesn't depreciate for one that does would be wrong.

Trading a car that is still under factory warranty for one that has no warranty would be wrong.

Trading a car that gets great gas mileage for one that doesn't would be wrong.

Trading a car that I've cared for since day one, for a car with an unknown history would be wrong.

My advice would be to reconsider the RV approach in lieu of finding a very low COL community and buying a home for what you plan to invest in the vehicle - especially if you have followed through with getting another dog. Insurance through the exchange will be more effective if you are settled in one place and should be heavily subsidized given your retirement income. Obtaining part time work will be easier if necessary to keep food on the table. If you are sold on the RV route, it seems you are throwing all caution to the wind on health insurance.

Where can I buy a home for $60K, and what kind of a neighborhood would it be in?

In any event, good luck to you.

Thank you again.

 

[Christian]

The following quote from your initial post indicates otherwise:

That is the difference between the past tense word "were" and the present tense word "are".

By going from working tons of overtime over the last 13 years, to suddenly and unexpectedly having zero overtime dollars coming in, I'm taking about a $5,000 a month pay cut- that materially changes our situation. I would think that would be a difficult situation for most people.

We can still make all of our scheduled payments, and we're still reducing our debt by about $2,000 a month headway, but it has really slowed down the rate at which we were paying down our debt. The cancer thing has compounded things, by potentially moving my retirement date closer. This is not how or when we planned to retire.

We did recently pay off two things, which will free up another $500 a month to hammer away at our debt, but that's not going to materially impact the challenges that we are facing if we retire in August.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Parts of the Midwest, South and Wichita Kansas are cheap. There are places where you can buy a house for the price of your RV. If you have any CC debt you are not living within your means. Two extremely expensive cars when you have debt and no savings is not living within your means no matter your salary or the interest rate. If it were you would not be in this predictament. When we both worked we made sure we didn’t need both salaries in case one of us couldn’t work. You can’t assume that nothing in life will go wrong. At one point my husband was working 7 days a week with lots of overtime and we banked it. As the sole breadwinner at that point when he got laid off we had money to live on besides unemployment.

 

[Nature Lover]

Hi Christian,

I've watched the discussion evolve and there are a couple of questions on the financial side that haven't been answered (or maybe asked yet) that if you're willing to answer might help. No guarantees that it'll lead to better suggestions than you've received thus far, but may help us with context.

1. Your current expenses are $6k/mo. and live in an unnamed very HCOL area, but you're planning a major lifestyle change. Have you a realistic estimate of what your desired lifestyle will cost (and please include estimated taxes; and some amount for unusual/unexpected expenses - they're inevitable and you need at least something in your Plan to cover them)? Estimating what your expenses will be in retirement is a much better starting point for developing and evaluating alternatives.

2. When asked if you have additional savings/retirement assets, I didn't see an answer (maybe I missed it). Please give us an idea of how much in taxable and tax deferred accounts other than the Pension Plan.

3. If I understand thus far, you are likely to have a pension of ~$3,000/mo (although could be less if you take out a cash balance) and later, some SS; although if you don't voluntarily retire...and are deemed unable to return to your work, you would qualify for a disability retirement of $4,600/mo + you'd get back ~$160k of your retirement contributions. If I recall, if you're deemed disabled, however, you wouldn't qualify for disability SS - just the disability retirement pension. Please confirm if the amounts above are correct and/or fill in any missing/incorrect amounts for each piece, to the extent possible; and note whether the pension(s) are adjusted each year for inflation (I don't recall if you mentioned that previously).

With this data, the feasibility of fully retiring this year and/or any constraints may become clearer.

BTW, plenty of people retire on $3,000/mo, but it's not usually by choice, and it's a very lean lifestyle, requiring what some consider significant compromises....especially if it's for a long retirement. Generally speaking, for the vast majority of us it wouldn't be recommended, but each of us is different.

NL

 

[Christian]

Parts of the Midwest, South and Wichita Kansas are cheap. There are places where you can buy a house for the price of your RV.

Well, maybe we should look into that. I'll talk to my wife about it.

If you have any CC debt you are not living within your means.

Almost everybody owes money on something- mortgage, car payments, etc.. The CC debt is kind of a sore subject- I didn't think it was a good idea at the time, but I let my wife convince me that we could use other people's money at 0% and I had plenty of income to deal with it...until my injury.

Two extremely expensive cars...

Now they're "extremely expensive cars"...

When was the last time you walked a dealer's lot? This is 2019- the average price of a new car is sneaking up on $40,000.

...when you have debt and no savings is not living within your means no matter your salary or the interest rate. If it were you would not be in this predictament.

Ease up, Terry- the title of this thread is not "Tell me what I did wrong in the past".

When we both worked we made sure we didn’t need both salaries in case one of us couldn’t work.

We did the same thing. We had plenty of money coming in just from my paycheck, to easily cover everything. We didn't need a paycheck from my wife. So she worked when she wanted to, and didn't work when she didn't want to.

You can’t assume that nothing in life will go wrong.

We didn't assume that nothing in life would go wrong. But how do you plan for cancer? I'm pretty sure that throws a wrinkle in life for just about anybody.

At one point my husband was working 7 days a week with lots of overtime...

Welcome to the club. A week (7 days) is 168 hours long, and I've made more than 150 hours of pay in a week. That's almost as much as most full-time workers work in a month.

 

[Teacher Terry]

You made me laugh with the mention of what the thread isn’t. In 2013 we bought a certified used car from Honda for a accord with 30k miles on it for 20k out the door. We paid 10k for a 6 year old Toyota Corolla with 27k/miles on it. Sorry but cars are the biggest waste of money. my friends who are all professionals with some high earners and no one owns a car that expensive. I married the second time at 22 and my husband was 30 and more mature. We banked our wedding present money because he insisted. 2 years later when I was pregnant with our second child he ruptured his disc and couldn’t work. We had no salary for months until workers compensation back paid and when my FIL asked if we needed money because I wasn’t working the answer was no because we had savings. I am glad I learned that lesson young.

 

[Sunset]

....

Almost everybody owes money on something- mortgage, car payments, etc.. The CC debt is kind of a sore subject- I didn't think it was a good idea at the time, but I let my wife convince me that we could use other people's money at 0% and I had plenty of income to deal with it...until my injury.
.

Well if your debt is at 0% , then no sweat pay it off over the next decade.

....
Now they're "extremely expensive cars"...

When was the last time you walked a dealer's lot? This is 2019- the average price of a new car is sneaking up on $40,000.
.....

Obviously, you go to the wrong dealers.

The super reliable, 3yr factory warranty, gas efficient, super popular US car is the Camry, and costs $23K . I was at a dealer last month and DW wants to replace her 20 year old Camry with a new one.

In general, if you are making $50K , $100K or $500K , has nothing to do with "is something expensive". The expensiveness of something stands on it's own compared to similar other things.
So a $45k car is twice as expensive as a $23K car.

 

[Christian]

Hi Christian,

Greetings. Man, am I glad for your post. I was getting pretty upset about the rude comments.

I've watched the discussion evolve and there are a couple of questions on the financial side that haven't been answered (or maybe asked yet) that if you're willing to answer might help. No guarantees that it'll lead to better suggestions than you've received thus far, but may help us with context.

I appreciate that. I'll do my best.

1. Your current expenses are $6k/mo. and live in an unnamed very HCOL area, but you're planning a major lifestyle change. Have you a realistic estimate of what your desired lifestyle will cost (and please include estimated taxes; and some amount for unusual/unexpected expenses - they're inevitable and you need at least something in your Plan to cover them)? Estimating what your expenses will be in retirement is a much better starting point for developing and evaluating alternatives.

My wife has some stuff sketched out. We're using our current budget template filled in with the new proposed retirement numbers instead.

With no debt, it gets a lot simpler. Off the top of my head, there was about $300 a month for food, a healthy gas budget, her insurance, the van insurance, cell phones, and so on. Obviously there would be no rent/mortgage/property taxes, nor would there be any utility bills.

The only major variable is the cost of her medical insurance, which may run from a couple hundred dollars for her portion of our insurance, to about $500 a month for her own insurance.

The bottom line is, that we appear to be roughly $500 in the black every month.

2. When asked if you have additional savings/retirement assets, I didn't see an answer (maybe I missed it). Please give us an idea of how much in taxable and tax deferred accounts other than the Pension Plan.

I have nothing else- all of my eggs are in one basket- my pension. I will have some SS at 62, but not much. When SS kicks in at 62, we'd like to settle down, having had ample opportunity to see this great nation.

3. If I understand thus far, you are likely to have a pension of ~$3,000/mo (although could be less if you take out a cash balance) and later, some SS; although if you don't voluntarily retire...and are deemed unable to return to your work, you would qualify for a disability retirement of $4,600/mo + you'd get back ~$160k of your retirement contributions. If I recall, if you're deemed disabled, however, you wouldn't qualify for disability SS - just the disability retirement pension. Please confirm if the amounts above are correct and/or fill in any missing/incorrect amounts for each piece, to the extent possible; and note whether the pension(s) are adjusted each year for inflation (I don't recall if you mentioned that previously).

Excellent. Looks like you actually read it. Thank you.

The only clarification, would be that I am 56 now, so SS would not be available to me until I turn 62.

With this data, the feasibility of fully retiring this year and/or any constraints may become clearer.

Thanks. I'd look forward to your input, and I appreciate your time.

BTW, plenty of people retire on $3,000/mo, but it's not usually by choice, and it's a very lean lifestyle, requiring what some consider significant compromises....especially if it's for a long retirement. Generally speaking, for the vast majority of us it wouldn't be recommended, but each of us is different.

NL

This is one of those situations.

Thanks again.

 

[bigcmagor]

Where can I buy a home for $60K, and what kind of a neighborhood would it be in?

https://www.businessinsider.com/affordable-places-to-retire-homes-cheaper-than-cars-2019-4

 

[Lcountz]

So Christian can you please tell us.....do ANY of the suggestions presented so far have merit?


You seem to want to debate and rebut each point to convince why you can NOT take the advice given, and in the number of posts so far, just about every possible solution has been proposed yet you argue it down.


What do you REALLY want people to say or offer? You say you are "not educated" but your writing style, ability to understand math belie that claim. Your writing style is very familiar to me.....veeerrrrryyyy familiar. But what do I know?



Other than a huge financial offer, it appears all the bases have been covered.


Sorry..not to minimize cancer but....one DOES plan for illness...they do that by "making hay while the sun ( or overtime) shines".....150,000 in debt is a LOT of debt for someone who does not own a home or a lot of possessions, jewelry, etc....Two cars at 40K each still leaves a TON of debt.



How about bankruptcy if it comes to that?



Have you ever heard of saving for a rainy day?


Come on now Christian...did you ever do mall walking or sit on a bench watching people near the capital while living in an apartment you would soon not be able to afford?

 

[REWahoo]

I have nothing else- all of my eggs are in one basket- my pension.

... I am 56 now...

Yet you continue to claim you live(d) within your means while saving nothing and accumulating $150k in debt for cars and CC purchases.

 

[Teacher Terry]

You can collect SSDI as long as you have 40 quarters in and deemed disabled to do any work. If you can build a van you can work so won’t qualify.

 

[Calico]

Thanks. We're trying to be flexible, consider all options, and breathe. Watching the ocean waves seems to help.

I hear you.

For us, we're strongly leaning towards retirement. She's already expressed to me multiple times, that it would feel like she's being punished if I don't retire- some of the CC debt that she ran up in recent years, was stuff that we could afford on the money we were making, but I didn't necessarily think it was a good idea. Sometimes I don't like being right.

(More conflicting messages)


An earlier post from the OP:


I didn't say CC debt- I just said debt. It includes our cars and everything. My car is financed at 1.9% interest, which is less than the inflation rate during the period that I've owned it.

 

[Christian]

Well if your debt is at 0% , then no sweat pay it off over the next decade.

We aren't going to have the money to make the monthly payments on my pension. And it's not gonna stay at 0% forever.

Obviously, you go to the wrong dealers.

The super reliable, 3yr factory warranty, gas efficient, super popular US car is the Camry, and costs $23K . I was at a dealer last month and DW wants to replace her 20 year old Camry with a new one.

Why?

I am born and raised in the auto industry- that "$23K" Camry is actually $23,945...plus a $930 destination charge, which is $24,875...plus sales tax...plus license...plus title...plus...plus...plus...

Those cars are what are known within the industry as "ad cars", designed to get people in the door, where some slimy salesman can switch them to something more along the lines of the Camry that is actually shown on Toyota's Camry page. It is $35,095...plus the $930 destination charge, which is $36,025...plus sales tax...plus license...plus title...plus...plus...plus...and those are the cars that people are actually buying.

As I correctly stated, the average price of a new car in the U.S. is sneaking up on $40,000.

That new Camry is also going to depreciate horrifically- my car isn't. My car has already passed the steepest part of it's depreciation curve, and for a few reasons that I can't take credit for, it didn't drop as far as I was expecting, and it's value appears to be holding steady.

In general, if you are making $50K , $100K or $500K , has nothing to do with "is something expensive". The expensiveness of something stands on it's own compared to similar other things.

You may not like it, but there is a context when it comes to income.

And if we're comparing my car to "similar other things", then mine is absolutely dirt cheap. There is a guy in our PCA chapter that has a car that looks like a virtual twin to mine, other than the colors we each chose when we ordered them. Same year, same make, same model, same body, same top, same seats, same wheels/tires, same suspension, same transmission, same steering wheel, and so on. A lay person would have a really hard time pointing out why his was $70,000 more than my car.

 

[Christian]

https://www.businessinsider.com/affordable-places-to-retire-homes-cheaper-than-cars-2019-4

I had no idea that there were places in this great nation where you could buy a house that cheap.

But I looked up #1 from that list, and found this on Wikipedia:

Flint has been consistently ranked as one of the most dangerous cities in the United States by multiple sources.[87][88][89][90] From 2007 to 2009, violent crime in Flint was ranked in the top five among U.S. cities with a population of at least 50,000 people.[91] From 2010 to 2012, Flint ranked as the city with the highest violent crime rate among cities with over 100,000 population.[92] In 2015, CQ Press (using FBI statistics) ranked the crime index for Flint as 7th-highest in cities with population greater than 75,000.[93]
On September 24, 2018, the FBI reported Flint was ranked as America's sixth most violent city among those with population of 50,000 or more in 2017. Violent crimes were up 23% compared to 2016 according to the report.[94]

...which is why I asked what kind of neighborhood it would be in.

 

[bigcmagor]

I had no idea that there were places in this great nation where you could buy a house that cheap.

But I looked up #1 from that list, and found this on Wikipedia:

You could buy three homes in Flint for the RV money, not that I would recommend it. My son bought a home in a nice neighborhood for less than $60,000. Same neighborhood where my mother in-law lived and I even have a nephew there. Just a suggestion to perhaps acquire a housing asset without quite the rate of depreciation. YMWV.

 

[KCGeezer]

I’m voting troll. From under the bridge in DC.

 

[Christian]

(More conflicting messages)


An earlier post from the OP:

Do you have something meaningful to add to this discussion, or are you just trolling me?...on a thread about the challenges that my wife and I are facing since she was diagnosed with cancer...

There is no conflict in those two statements of mine- SOME of our debt is credit card debt.

 

[Christian]

You could buy three homes in Flint for the RV money, not that I would recommend it. My son bought a home in a nice neighborhood for less than $60,000. Same neighborhood where my mother in-law lived and I even have a nephew there. Just a suggestion to perhaps acquire a housing asset without quite the rate of depreciation. YMWV.

Well, 2008 proved that isn't always the case, but I understand what you're trying to say.