What probability of success did you retire at (or plan to retire at)?

What was/is your probability of success for FIRE

  • 100%

    Votes: 115 68.5%
  • 95-99%

    Votes: 37 22.0%
  • 90-94%

    Votes: 9 5.4%
  • 80%

    Votes: 6 3.6%
  • 70%

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • below 70%

    Votes: 1 0.6%

  • Total voters
    168
My inner math pedant, usually barely under control, is forced to point out: X% success probability isn't the same as 100% success probability with X% of expected expenses (which I'm sure everyone here already knows). So all of these 100+% numbers don't really make sense. If P(success)>1 does that mean that probability of failure is negative? Poor math pedant brain melts at the thought.

All that said, this thread got me to run Firecalc for the first time in a year and, using the criteria of this thread, my success probability is now 260% if I live to be 100. Take that, math pedant brain.
 
Now I am wondering if there is anyone on this forum or know of someone who retired at a very low probability? 80% 70% 60% or even 50%
My first iteration came up with an 80% or so success. It was enough that I let it be known that since RIFs were coming I wouldn't mind if one came my way.

Now 7+ years in I'm well over 100%
 
When I retired 19 years ago, I had never heard of a retirement calculator. I'm sure there were some around, but they weren't on my radar.

I simply looked at my situation and made a "seat of the pants" calculation that I would be fine unless TSHTF.

So far, so good.
I retired nearly 21 years ago from my career job. I don't thing Firecalc existed at that time. So my answer could be "a hope and a prayer"

Actually, I took my pension, added 4% of my portfolio (from Trinity study), and had a number that I felt we could live within that amount given my LBYM inclination cultivated over 50 years.

21 years in, have raised two sons through college and the portfolio is now 3.5 times it's value in 2000.

Was very LBYM for the first ten years, but once made it through the financial crisis of 2008 I started loosening the purse strings.
 
80%. As of now I have far more stash than ever expected. Still less than a million. And getting bigger, got to start blowing some.
 
We were well north of 100% on FireCalc. I tracked all income/expenses for about 8 years before retiring and knew that we would have enough to retire.

I setup investments to provide for income. About 1/2 of our income is from investments, and 1/2 from DH's SS and pension. I'm deferring SS for another year. In the 20 months that I have been retired (DH is 10 years older and has been retired for a 9 years) we have only had to withdraw from 15K from our savings. That was to pay off a 2022 vacation. The key to successful retirement is to be prepared.
 
I had 95-100% with spending "X," no social, and no inheritance. We figured to spend 1.5X or more when we could, and probably will get good socials and some inheritance. Having majority of planned spending entirely discretionary, and being fine with reducing travel when needed, reduced need to maximize calculator results.

E.T.A. also ran calculator with other spending numbers and got lower results. I didn't answer poll, given our variability.
 
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My inner math pedant, usually barely under control, is forced to point out: X% success probability isn't the same as 100% success probability with X% of expected expenses (which I'm sure everyone here already knows). So all of these 100+% numbers don't really make sense. If P(success)>1 does that mean that probability of failure is negative? Poor math pedant brain melts at the thought.

All that said, this thread got me to run Firecalc for the first time in a year and, using the criteria of this thread, my success probability is now 260% if I live to be 100. Take that, math pedant brain.
You are of course correct on the math. But numbers greater than 100% accurately convey information that I believe the OP was seeking.
 
When I retired 19 years ago, I had never heard of a retirement calculator. I'm sure there were some around, but they weren't on my radar.

I simply looked at my situation and made a "seat of the pants" calculation that I would be fine unless TSHTF.

So far, so good.

Similar story here. I was not a member of this forum until 2009, a year after I retired. However, in early 2008, I met with my first Account Executive at Fidelity, and we input my assets, income, and spending data into their RIP program. While I was sure I would be fine, My AE reassured me I was "good to go!" And I "went" at the end of October, 2008.

It's been all good since then, although I became a little squeamish when my HI premiums rose 50% in the first 2 years. The ACA had been passed, so its exchanges and premium subsidies would stabilize that otherwise volatile part of my budget.
 
I think the main thing I’ve learned from those calculators is that the devil is in the inputs. If we use tweak the inflation or CPI or portfolio allocation other numbers by just a bit they have big consequences.
Depending on my inputs I’m anywhere between 90-100%. I also don’t include SS or any other inheritances because I’m still 25-30+ years from that.

With a big distance to travel (from 40) there is a lot that can change. So I’m waiting till I hit 100%.

I also like those that make the argument that if you are only 75% chance to reach, say 90+, is it worth waiting till your percent is 100%?

Finally, I find it’s interesting that my changing number of years till death from 40 to 50 or 55 doesn’t change % much since compounding effects mean the chance of ruin doesn’t go up (much) with longer time windows past a certain point.

Lots to think about.
 
Op,
You must realize that many folks on this forum got to ER by a LBYM lifestyle and many continue to live this lifestyle in retirement.
Thus 100% and above is a popular number when the WR% is typically less than 3%.
 
I waited for 200%, which I define as doubling my actual expenses and still getting a 100% out of FIRECalc.
+1. Me, too, except I ended up buying a house that made it more like 120% of actual expenses.
 
Another thing I should add about my ER was that I split up the financial side into two parts. The first is getting from my ER age (45) to age ~60 intact, using only my after-tax portion of the portfolio, the more challenging part. After that, things only get easier because my "reinforcements" arrive, those being (1) unfettered access to my rollover IRA, (2) my frozen company pension, and (3) SS.


The timeiine graph from the Fido RIP program showed my total portfolio's value exploding upward in my 60s, as I knew it would. My own spreadsheets only projected my ER through age 60.


I am only about 2 years from being able to access the first of those reinforcements, so I have gotten through the so-called tough part pretty easily so far. :dance:
 
Now I am wondering if there is anyone on this forum or know of someone who retired at a very low probability? 80% 70% 60% or even 50%
My mom tried this, effectively by withdrawing a 6% rate annually. In just 15 years, the actual $ amount in her accounts was half of the starting value, and that is not counting the effects of inflation. She had investments that had loads and high fees, and an investment advisor. If she had used low cost funds such as VG, she might have managed to break even.
 
We retired without doing any online calculating. We realized our army pension would cover living expenses if we didn't spend money on stupid stuff. Now the IRAs sit there (and continue to grow) as the buffer for inflation, long term medical expenses, etc. Running Firecalc with pension exceeding spending gets 100% every time...
 
My Dad retired with pretty much no savings but has a generous teacher's pension. He is working part-time now in his early 70's just for the social security credits since he was excluded for SS when he was a teacher.
 
we first started thinking and dreaming about early retirement around age 40 (1990). when we started working to make that more than a dream we didn't know about this group (if it even was a thing) or FiReCALC. we knew we were going to each have a public pension and SS plus our investments. except for the mortgage we were already debt free. the retirement plan was to live off of the pensions and SS leaving everything else as a cushion. towards that end i re-purchased a pension from a previous public employer and we kicked our investing into high gear both pre-tax and post-tax and made extra payments on the mortgage.

the two big nuts to crack in retirement were the mortgage and health insurance. my wife had enough time in service to qualify for no-cost health coverage in retirement until age 65 and i could stay in my agency's group policy until age 65 but i had to pay the premium. the proceeds from the old pension i re-purchased would just about cover my health insurance premium and we were on track to knock out the mortgage one or two years before retiring.

two things happened in 1999. my retirement system developed an early retirement option (age 50) but i was not able to get my agency to participate. and a deferred comp option was offered to both of us that we took advantage of.

by Y2K ER in 2005 (me) and 2006 (her) was looking really good so i started re-working the spreadsheets. i had updated projections for revenue and went through our Quicken file averaging 3-yrs worth of expenses. i assumed 0% increase in pensions and SS at age 62 and an annual 3% increase in expenses (worst case scenarios). i updated it several times a year. the mortgage was paid off about 18-months before we walked (15-yr mortgage paid in 11). in early 2005 the spreadsheets were showing we were good to go so i gave 6-mos notice and a year later my wife did the same. i walked out the door in august of '05, my wife in october of '06.

for quite some time i kept waiting for the other shoe to drop...i was sure there was something i had failed to take into account in my spreadsheet but that shoe never materialized. our revenue and expenss peojections were pretty much on the mark.

we are living quite comfortably according to plan on our pensions and SS...well below our means with positive cash flow each month. other than purchasing for cash our current MH we have not touched our investments. since 2005 our net worth has blossomed to a point i never would have imagined possible. and if the world economy doesn't implode in the next few years (as some are predicting) we should be good for the next 30-years.

the moral...plan, set goals, budget, save, invest, shed debt, rinse and repeat. life is good! :dance:
 
I wasn't here when I retired. I signed up after I retired when I was looking for a retirement forum.

I did a few retirement calculators but not firecalc until I was here. All good to go.

Yeah, coulda quit sooner...
 
First, let me say the makers of Firecalc have done an amazing job. One caveat I would put in is that they are leaving it up to you to estimate your taxes and that obviously varies depending on your life situation, jurisdiction, and taxable income. It's hard to get that right as your asset values and therefore growth vary during the simulation period and income taxes may take a big bite for people in the 100% success department. Firecalc projects that my NW will go way up, but I didn't make an estimate of tax expenses to match that and since it is running a wide spread of scenarios, it's not easy to see how to address that.

My own spreadsheet, tuned to my tax situation (but which I would like to stop using as it seems endlessly buggy and hard to maintain), gives me about half the ending value that I got with Firecalc and quite a few cases where the ending value was half the starting value. The reverse is probably true too, that lower taxes in cases where the assets are depleting means slower depletion.

So to the 100+% crowd, don't fall in love with all those future riches, the tax man always has his hand out.
 
First, let me say the makers of Firecalc have done an amazing job. One caveat I would put in is that they are leaving it up to you to estimate your taxes and that obviously varies depending on your life situation, jurisdiction, and taxable income. It's hard to get that right as your asset values and therefore growth vary during the simulation period and income taxes may take a big bite for people in the 100% success department. Firecalc projects that my NW will go way up, but I didn't make an estimate of tax expenses to match that and since it is running a wide spread of scenarios, it's not easy to see how to address that.

My own spreadsheet, tuned to my tax situation (but which I would like to stop using as it seems endlessly buggy and hard to maintain), gives me about half the ending value that I got with Firecalc and quite a few cases where the ending value was half the starting value. The reverse is probably true too, that lower taxes in cases where the assets are depleting means slower depletion.

So to the 100+% crowd, don't fall in love with all those future riches, the tax man always has his hand out.


This is how I handle expected taxes:

1. Start with actual spending on everything but income taxes.
2. Assume that all money needed to support that spending is taxable ordinary income.
3. Gross up for taxes at the marginal rate.
4. Use the grossed up number in FIRECalc

So, for example, suppose I actually spend $81k per year based on having tracked my spending for many years. That puts me at the bottom of the 22% federal bracket and in the 5.5% state bracket. To gross up, so that after I've paid taxes I have $81k left to spend, I use the following formula: Gross draw = actual spending/(1- marginal rate). In this case $81k/(1 -.275) = $111.72k gross draw. That's what I put in for spending on the first tab of FIRECalc.

Will my actual taxes be that high? No, because I didn't take into account the standard deduction, nor the fact that some of my income will be non-taxable social security and some will be withdrawals from Roth and after tax accounts, nor that some may be long term capital gains. It also assumes taxation of income at the marginal rate instead of the effective rate. But doing it this way ensures that I am being conservative in estimating my chances of success. It is also far simpler and easier to do.

Tax rates may go up in the future, but there is really no way to predict when and by how much, so the best I can do now is just use the current ones and err on the conservative side.

Perhaps one big difference in our situations is that I have no heirs, so I care not one whit about my ending balance, as long as it is above zero. FIRECalc says it will average 8 figures. That's good enough for me.
 
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My inner math pedant, usually barely under control, is forced to point out: X% success probability isn't the same as 100% success probability with X% of expected expenses (which I'm sure everyone here already knows). So all of these 100+% numbers don't really make sense. If P(success)>1 does that mean that probability of failure is negative? Poor math pedant brain melts at the thought.

All that said, this thread got me to run Firecalc for the first time in a year and, using the criteria of this thread, my success probability is now 260% if I live to be 100. Take that, math pedant brain.

Though I ran FIRECalc a lot when planning to retire, I have not run FIRECalc for a few years.

Just did it, and found that I could increase my spending to more than 5x the level of spending in the last 12 months.

What happened? A bull market to inflate the stash plus the Covid-constrained lifestyle conspired to cause this effect. Is that really desirable?

I made the FIRECalc run with the default 30-year retirement. In fairness, I should use 22 years, as I already enjoyed 8 years of putzing around. That brings the possible spending level up to 6x.

Does the above make me feel good? The answer is no.

On the other hand, if FIRECalc says I would better be looking for a job, I would feel quite lousy, and possibly would not be posting here.
 
Will my actual taxes be that high? No, because I didn't take into account the standard deduction, nor the fact that some of my income will be non-taxable social security and some will be withdrawals from Roth and after tax accounts, nor that some may be long term capital gains. But doing it this way ensures that I am being conservative in estimating my chances of success. It is also far simpler and easier to do.

Some additional safety margin is gained because not all of your income will actually be taxed at the marginal tax rate, unless you are in the lowest marginal tax bracket.
 
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