What to do with gold coins

[Car-Guy]

^^^^^
At PCGS, for us ordinary folks, $17 to $65 depending on the series and services (speed) levels. Big dealers get a discount. Rarities and walkthrus even higher. Price and Submission details can be found here.

https://www.pcgs.com/servicesandfees

You'll figure out real quick, unless you have coins worth several hundred dollars each, it's not worth it. (IMO anyway) Oh, and expect to wait 6 to 8 weeks for grading on standard services. (That's after they receive them from you. And you pay for shipping and insurance...) Have a nice day!

 

[braumeister]

^^^^^
At PCGS, for us ordinary folks, $17 to $65 depending on the series and services (speed) levels.

Yes, not something to do routinely or casually.

Top Coin Grading Companies

There are four major coin grading companies in the USA. They are all suitable to quote in listings as they can confirm certification of coins against the Third Party Grading database (TPG).

 

[Car-Guy]

There have been a lot of coin grading companies over the years but only PCGS and NGC have ever been "creditable" IMO... Most others have gone out of business... If you are going to get a coin(s) graded, spend a few extra bucks and use PCGS or NGC. And for really high dollar stuff (1,000's of dollars) you need to send them to CAC too for their confirmation/concurrence of the PCGS/NGC grades. Otherwise you probably won't be able to sell them for top dollar.

 

[Dash man]

^^^^^
At PCGS, for us ordinary folks, $17 to $65 depending on the series and services (speed) levels. Big dealers get a discount. Rarities and walkthrus even higher. Price and Submission details can be found here.

https://www.pcgs.com/servicesandfees

You'll figure out real quick, unless you have coins worth several hundred dollars each, it's not worth it. (IMO anyway) Oh, and expect to wait 6 to 8 weeks for grading on standard services. (That's after they receive them from you. And you pay for shipping and insurance...) Have a nice day!

Thanks! I have a number of 1oz gold proof coins, so their premium membership that includes vouchers for 8 submissions might be worth it.

 

[SecondCor521]

Two more questions. Assume I am selling 5 1oz gold Buffalo proofs at a medium to large coin show.

1. Will the dealer skip tax paperwork? I fully intend to report the collectible gain on my tax return, but it is 5 coins legally owned by 3 beneficiaries so if tax paperwork got involved it would make it harder to distribute 1 2/3 coin cap gain info in a way the IRS would understand.

2. Will they pay in check? Rather not walk out with $15K cash, especially if I have to fly home with it. I assume a check from a reputable dealer is OK.

 

[Car-Guy]

Two more questions. Assume I am selling 5 1oz gold Buffalo proofs at a medium to large coin show.

1. Will the dealer skip tax paperwork? I fully intend to report the collectible gain on my tax return, but it is 5 coins legally owned by 3 beneficiaries so if tax paperwork got involved it would make it harder to distribute 1 2/3 coin cap gain info in a way the IRS would understand.

Laws have changed since I messed with this. So maybe, depends on the State, the Dealer and amounts.

2. Will they pay in check? Rather not walk out with $15K cash, especially if I have to fly home with it. I assume a check from a reputable dealer is OK.

Most dealers I've dealt with prefer paying in check for such amounts, but will pay in cash if I ask. I've done it both ways. BUT, I know who I'm dealing with. As with anyone, particularly that you don't know, taking a personal or even a company check does have it's risks.

In the case of rare coins or bullion, they may not be as honest as they seem, they may claim later that one or more of your coins is fake or the price may fall drastically in a few days and they don't want to honor the original price and stop payment. (for examples.)

One other thing about getting large sums of cash vs checks... The bank WILL fill out a CTR on you when you deposit anything over 10k. Really no big deal, but something to be aware of. And if asked, don't make jokes about where you got the cash. Depending on what you say, that may also kick off a SAR... Not so good. My bankers know me so they expect it, yours may not.

 

[JoeWras]

One other thing about getting large sums of cash vs checks... The bank WILL fill out a CTR on you when you deposit anything over 10k. Really no big deal, but something to be aware of. And if asked, don't make jokes about where you got the cash.

They may fill one out on you even below 10k. This is their discretion if they feel any kind of nonsense is going on. Yes, no joking. That's true.

My wife worked at a financial institution and she is under confidentiality forever and she can't even tell me all the reasons the institution starts triggering CTR/SAR reports.

 

[Car-Guy]

^^^^^
Yes they watch out for deposit structuring too for those trying to avoid CTR's. Which is illegal too.

Well as long as you are honest, pay your taxes and aren't involved in anything illegal, then you have no worries. Personally, I sleep well!

 

[SecondCor521]

Yeah, I'm not worried about CTRs and SARs. Everything I would be doing would be legal. I am a tad nervous about carrying $15K or so in cash for any length of time, just due to the potential of losing it, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

[Markola]

I don’t mean to hijack the conversation but does anyone have experience with the CoinSnap app? You photograph a coin and it tells you lots of data about it, including value, using AI.

 

[JoeWras]

I don’t mean to hijack the conversation but does anyone have experience with the CoinSnap app? You photograph a coin and it tells you lots of data about it, including value, using AI.

That's a lot of information to give up to some anonymous data vacuum. No thanks.

 

[Koolau]

^^^^^
Yes they watch out for deposit structuring too for those trying to avoid CTR's. Which is illegal too.

Well as long as you are honest, pay your taxes and aren't involved in anything illegal, then you have no worries. Personally, I sleep well!

Keep in mind that your assets can be seized until YOU prove that you came by them legally and that you don't owe taxes on them. I'd say you just might have something to worry about - not least of all the cost of fighting an unfavorable audit ruling (even though you are "innocent.") Sometimes, even if you win, you lose. Stay clean, keep records, be discreet.

 

[Car-Guy]

Keep in mind that your assets can be seized until YOU prove that you came by them legally and that you don't owe taxes on them. I'd say you just might have something to worry about - not least of all the cost of fighting an unfavorable audit ruling (even though you are "innocent.") Sometimes, even if you win, you lose. Stay clean, keep records, be discreet.

I've got detailed records out the wazoo. At my age and where I live and being honest, I just don't worry about it. YMMV Plenty of other things in life to worry about, especially as I get older.

 

[Koolau]

I've got detailed records out the wazoo. At my age and where I live and being honest, I just don't worry about it. YMMV Plenty of other things in life to worry about, especially as I get older.

Probably a very good philosophy. I'm not all the way there yet - but I'm working on it. YMMV

 

[Car-Guy]

I don’t mean to hijack the conversation but does anyone have experience with the CoinSnap app? You photograph a coin and it tells you lots of data about it, including value, using AI.

The need/development of such apps has been discussed on coin forums for years... Lot's of pros and cons, likes and dislikes... For me, I like the idea of taking the subjectivity out of the grading process but I'm not familiar with CoinSnap.

Lot's of coins are resubmitted to the grading services looking for a better grade. Sometimes dealers and collectors will "crack out" a coin they believe is clearly under graded and resubmit it raw. And there is even an option to send in a graded coin for re-evaluation, without cracking it out of it's holder (called a slab). This happens a lot with high valued coins when one grade level can mean thousands of dollars. I've done it myself a few times.

 

[ncbill]

Concerning "B", my mom's local guy doesn't send anything to the IRS and he gave her a fair price.

Concerning fakes, "gold" titanium fakes don't "ring" and so are easy to spot if you have ears. Your scale and calipers won't detect the fake; you need your eyes and ears.

An ultrasonic detector plus those calipers would let you know for sure on gold coins or bars given the speed of sound in gold is ~3000 m/s versus titanium @ ~6000 m/s.

 

[ncbill]

They may fill one out on you even below 10k. This is their discretion if they feel any kind of nonsense is going on. Yes, no joking. That's true.

My wife worked at a financial institution and she is under confidentiality forever and she can't even tell me all the reasons the institution starts triggering CTR/SAR reports.

When I was in retail banking there were so many CTRs generated that they had little meaning.

What you want to avoid is having a Suspicious Activity Report (SAR)

 

[Poopycat]

I found myself in the same position when my Dad passed away: gold coins in the safety deposit box. After analyzing gold prices over the last 5 years, it was an easy decision to sell. I went to 3 different gold-coin shops and sold to the the highest one.


It is very amazing to see the different bids on the exact same group of coins.

AND - definitely don't let them take anything out of your direct line of sight.

What’s really amazing to me is that my dad just kept these coins in his house. He kept them in the original box in his living room. As soon as he passed away, I took the coins to my house and hid them (was in the middle of a move at the time, couldn’t set up a safe deposit box). I drove to Texas when I relocated while my belongings went on a moving truck, but I kept the coins with me the entire time. As soon as I got to TX, one of the first things I did was set up a safe deposit box. I felt uncomfortable having something that might be valuable, and easily stolen, on me and was relieved to have them safely stored.

My parents also collected old American silver dollars and half dollars. They always told me they were worth something. They are all stored in a big Mr. Peanuts container the size of a coffee can. At some point when I retire, I’ll try to find out what they might be worth. Probably something, but certainly not what the gold coins are worth. I found the original sales paperwork for Dad’s gold coins last night; the purchase was for 226 coins.

 

[RobbieB]

You have a lotta dough in those coins -

 

[JoeWras]

I found the original sales paperwork for Dad’s gold coins last night; the purchase was for 226 coins.

You have a lotta dough in those coins -

Cough, cough. Uh, yeah. If these are 1 oz liberties (which I think they were based on OP's discription), our other estimates are low by 4x. We're talking buy a house money in a MCOL area.

As for the can of old silver circulated coins: that can easily be over $1k, even as much as $4k, depending on the actual size of the can. This is just in metal value, ignoring possible rarities. Because they don't pack as well as smaller coins like dimes, they may not be worth as much. Dimes can be surprisingly valuable. And you said they were dollars? These need to be sorted and checked for numismatic value. If they are Morgans, they are always fun to check out. I saved a few of my Morgans cause I just like them. They are classic Americana.

OP: I think you know this, but proceed with caution here on multiple levels: theft, tax, value, etc. You have a nice surprise gift of a project from Dad.

 

[Koolau]

The need/development of such apps has been discussed on coin forums for years... Lot's of pros and cons, likes and dislikes... For me, I like the idea of taking the subjectivity out of the grading process but I'm not familiar with CoinSnap.

Lot's of coins are resubmitted to the grading services looking for a better grade. Sometimes dealers and collectors will "crack out" a coin they believe is clearly under graded and resubmit it raw. And there is even an option to send in a graded coin for re-evaluation, without cracking it out of it's holder (called a slab). This happens a lot with high valued coins when one grade level can mean thousands of dollars. I've done it myself a few times.

I never had interest in numismatic value - where gold or silver is concerned, I'm only interested in content - and ease of verifying content. Junk silver and US gold coins are all but fool proof, so that has been my go-to for the small amount of PMs I keep locked away. K-rands and Maples are almost as reliable.

I don't like the idea of depending upon a grader where one grade can mean the difference between $100 or $1000 value. I'm sure some folks are very comfortable dealing in rarity, but to me it just adds an element of risk that I don't need.

PM prices certainly vary (a lot) but numismatic values vary a lot more. That just my opinion so YMMV.

 

[SecondAttempt]

As you say, it may have been a bad investment, with lots of mark-up for the seller, but still worth quite a bit.

I'll beg to differ if only slightly.

I used to listen to a Goldline radio program starting in the early 90s. I have never been a gold bug and recognized quickly that Goldline was pushing collectible coins based on fear of government confiscation. The theory was that since bullion coins (like eagles) are fungible (all identical and interchangeable) the government could declare gold to be worth a penny an ounce, make it illegal to own gold, and force everyone to sell to the government. Collectible coins would have to be individually appraised so the government could not take them as easily.

Even listening to their radio program I always thought of their company as kind of slimy because they were using fear mongering to get people to buy collectible coins with high markups and spread. Goldline is a fairly big company and I seriously doubt they have outright fraudulent business practices.

OP, if you truly have American Eagles, they are bullion coins. The markups are fairly thin compared to collectible coins (maybe 4% vs 20+%). Your father may have made a poor investment in the sense that he paid a high markup but depending on when he bought, it may have been a great investment if the price of gold went up.

As others have said, if you have a few pounds, you have a significant amount in terms of monetary value. If it were me I might consider hiring a lawyer to help me liquidate them.

 

[SecondAttempt]

At the time I could find nothing in USA Law to support the assertion that gold "must be declared".

The near bored witless Customs Officer I conversed with had no knowledge of the Law relating to gold.

He stated 'You can not be prosecuted for not declaring if you declare.'. Which is similar to:

'If you have doubt whether your gold/gold coin is considered a monetary instrument it is in your best interest to declare the item(s) with a CBP Officer, so you do not give a false declaration.'

It may be that Customs are required to look for specific gold items and not others:

'originating in or brought from, Cuba, Iran, and Sudan*'

and

'You might wonder why sales of these specific objects are reportable. These reporting requirements are related to the regulations that require brokers to report all proceeds from stack and commodity transactions. These specific objects are currently traded (or used to be traded) on commodity exchanges.
https://www.texmetals.com/sell-gold-coins

I suggested to the Officer that USA Law seems to not require declaration and that, through Legislative silence, it is a legal loop hole in currency control as gold is easily sold in USA.
He said he would enquire for his better understanding.

This may help:
https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Arti...metals (including,if they are acquired abroad.

 

[RobbieB]

I wouldn't liquidate them.

Just sell a couple now and again for pocket jingle -

 

[Koolau]

I wouldn't liquidate them.

Just sell a couple now and again for pocket jingle -

Heh, heh, a LOT of jingle.