What would happen if one ran out of $ later in life?

[maestro]

If needed, I would have a modest apartment or share an apartment with a friend and LBYM as we always have.

+1

I think a lot of retired people here sit on the 3 legged stool of having pension, SS, and investment income. Some actually sit on a bar stool that has FOUR legs, of which I am one. Many have dreams of ER, but there is not a quick way to get there most of the time, unless rich Uncle Buck leaves you in his will. Living below your means is very critical if you don't have a chair.

 

[NW-Bound]

There are, of course, some homeless people who even w*rk. They may have a car. We have an encampment of such folks in Hawaii. We call them the w*rking poor. But, far and away, the most homeless are the folks with substance abuse and mental illness issues. These are not (by and large) folks whose FIRE dreams turned to nightmares...

+1

When I started to look into RV'ing more than 12 years ago, I surfed the Web for info, practical tips in RV'ing. Back then, there was not a lot on YouTube, and I found several RV blogs, which I followed.

There was a blog by this woman, which I found very interesting, not as much for her RV'ing as for her lifestyle. She had a homestead in the countryside, was doing OK raising a daughter, then fell in love with a guy who took off with all her money. She ended up being a welfare recipient due to her deteriorating health, and bounced around from state to state. She gave up her RV, and moved into a Section 8 housing.

I was curious to follow her blog to see how she survived, how she rode her wheelchair to the food bank, to get medical care, etc... I hoped to gain insight into how a poor person survived, what public assistance was out there for people like her.

There were readers who sent her care packages as well as money. She complained about not getting enough vegetable from the food bank for a healthy diet, and just a lot of empty carby food. But then, when she got the donated money, she went to Whole Foods to shop. And for health, she bought Himalayan pink salt lamps.

I guess it's not easy to help people who don't know how to maximize what they can get for their money.

 

[Koolau]

+1

I think a lot of retired people here sit on the 3 legged stool of having pension, SS, and investment income. Some actually sit on a bar stool that has FOUR legs, of which I am one. Many have dreams of ER, but there is not a quick way to get there most of the time, unless rich Uncle Buck leaves you in his will. Living below your means is very critical if you don't have a chair.

Sorry, remind me what's the 4th leg (of the bar stool?) W*rk? Inheritance? ?? Thanks.

 

[maestro]

Sorry, remind me what's the 4th leg (of the bar stool?) W*rk? Inheritance? ?? Thanks.

Blessed with the 4th leg of an 'inherited IRA' from my beautiful aunt, which pays enough of the groceries every month. Peace.

 

[Koolau]

Blessed with the 4th leg of an 'inherited IRA' from my beautiful aunt, which pays enough of the groceries every month. Peace.

Ah, yes. Very nice. Beautiful aunt, indeed.



I never received an inheritance - except: My mom and dad did what they were able to do to see that I got a good education. I've always looked at that as the best inheritance they were capable of providing me (basically, room and board during my college years.) Thanks, mom and dad.

 

[Sirka]

I like backup 2 -Living in other state or country. I used similar ideas, when I worried about my wife passing 1st.
There are senior centers, where you can eat $2 lunch all week long. Warm food and someone to talk to can go a long way.
My worst fear, when we retired, was going back to w*rk!

 

[NW-Bound]

3 and 4-legged stools? Such luxury. Some of us have to do with one-legged stool.


Mine has 2 legs, but they are highly uneven. How to count that? When I was living solely on my after-tax investments and the market went up/down like crazy, it felt more like a pogo stick than a stool.

 

[LateToFIRE]

Blessed with the 4th leg of an 'inherited IRA' from my beautiful aunt, which pays enough of the groceries every month. Peace.

DW has one of those - along with some other inherited assets we have not touched - until now had kind of lumped it all in with our overall portfolio. But, you've reminded me to break those funds out, so as to appreciate it more. At first didn't seem to make all that big of a difference to our NW picture. But, those assets have grown and as I approach FIRE, starting to recognize that every dollar counts in that FireCalc score. Now looking way more meaningful than I had given credit years ago. Thanks DW mom & dad!

 

[Koolau]

I like backup 2 -Living in other state or country. I used similar ideas, when I worried about my wife passing 1st.
There are senior centers, where you can eat $2 lunch all week long. Warm food and someone to talk to can go a long way.
My worst fear, when we retired, was going back to w*rk!

Yeah, that has been my principal back-up. Since we live in a HCOL area, our back-up is to move back to the Old Homestead. Heh, heh, I had to laugh about the $2 lunch - but it's true. There is a Senior center, walking distance from the Old Homestead. You can win TP or dish washing liquid, etc., playing bingo. Then, you can "buy" a meals-on-wheels meal for a "donation" of $2 (or not.)


So, I'm guessing I could cut my spending by 75% if I had to. Maybe more as I would get by without a car (decent - not great bus system with senior discounts - run a block from the Old Homestead.)



I'd miss the Koolau mountains and the Pacific ocean, but I could survive. Back-ups are critical to every plan IMHO. Hope I never need mine.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

OP, being positive, it will Never happen! Famous last words. We would move to Mexico way before it does. We are smart enough to know it it will WAY in advance, are you? $5m buys a great lifestyle south of the border, great healthcare to boot.

 

[NW-Bound]

^^^ What I wonder is the cost to hire 24/7 armed guards for protection.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

^^^ What I wonder is the cost to hire 24/7 armed guards for protection.

$0, as long as you do not choose Sanora. (Typical uninformed American response) Your comment is so predictable it is silly. Keep up the good work, they do not want you there anyway.

 

[NW-Bound]

^^^ I know there are American expats living down there happily.

Still, I suspect that most of them don't live the "great lifestyle that $5M buys", as you suggested in the post above. Money attracts attention, some of which you may not want.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

^^^ I know there are American expats living down there happily.

Still, I suspect that most of them don't live the "great lifestyle that $5M buys", as you suggested in the post above. Money attracts attention, some of which you may not want.

Only if you flash it. Not a British thing.

 

[GenXguy]

$0, as long as you do not choose Sanora. (Typical uninformed American response) Your comment is so predictable it is silly. Keep up the good work, they do not want you there anyway.

I have had three good friends born and raised in Mexico. Two of them left, one is an upper middle class in Mexico City. One that moved away did live in Obregon, Sanora. From all I've learned over the last few decades, I don't think I would ever move to Mexico. Obviously some places are a lot better than others. Of course, there are plenty of places I wouldn't move in the U.S.

 

[11522914]

3 and 4-legged stools? Such luxury. Some of us have to do with one-legged stool.


Mine has 2 legs, but they are highly uneven. How to count that? When I was living solely on my after-tax investments and the market went up/down like crazy, it felt more like a pogo stick than a stool.

OMG that was funny. I just spit water all over my rented cabin's floor.

Don't worry, I'll clean it up......later.

 

[Sunset]

I think we're all kind of focusing on low income seniors, vs. the premise: Someone who has a 100% chance of success in FIREcalc has considerable assets/pensions, etc., to get there. If that all somehow magically went away, it would not be a singular event, so there is time to plan.

And even if it did, you'd have to be a catastrophe (sued to the point of bankruptcy?) that would be somewhat insane, and assuming you don't have insurance (homeowners, umbrella, etc.)

Assuming all that, you still would unlikely to be someone with a meagre SS, and could probably figure out how to get by. If you see things going that way, move to a state that has good bankruptcy protections, lets you keep your home, etc.

So, with the premise that someone has all they need to fire - in a VERY healthy way - they most likely, if they are smart, have availed themselves of the kinds of protections to mitigate disaster before it happens.

That's why I still keep our 401k accounts as the legal protection seems worth having as long as the fees are reasonable.

 

[GenXguy]

That's why I still keep our 401k accounts as the legal protection seems worth having as long as the fees are reasonable.

Don't you get the same protection if you rolled into an IRA, in Illinois?

 

[Route246]

Now that I am in my 60s, worked and sacrificed but also enjoyed the fruits of my labor, I feel I am entitled to live financially comfortably in retirement because of this. I did a lot to avoid ever running out of money in retirement, probably in excess of what was required but without a defined benefit pension it is very difficult to calibrate cash flow when you're just starting out and ramping up savings for retirement.

That said, I have no empathy for anyone who didn't prepare and now complains about a degraded lifestyle, as if I am supposed to feel guilty about someone else's sub-optimal choices. I made a few of those myself but minimized the damage. It may be cold and insensitive and I never say these things to anyone (anonymous forums like this plus certain FIRE friends excepted). I just keep my mouth shut and say nothing.

It really works both ways, seriously.

If you're doing very well nobody wants to hear complaints about paying high taxes or your RMD challenges. It is a wonderful problem to have and complaining about it out loud is not going to gain much sympathy.

If you're not doing well, groveling and suffering due to being financially sub-optimal with meager or no savings from your working years then you're not going to gain any sympathy from anyone who can see what happened.

I know many people who felt they hit the lotto after a surviving parent died and they "cashed in and got a nice payday" from losing their surviving parent. I look at my inheritance which is substantial and I feel a bit of envy because I took it and put it in Vanguard where it sits. I feel it is a legacy that I must pass on unlike some who feel it is a paycheck that should be squandered on paying bills and lifestyle improvements. I only think about losing my parents and becoming an adult orphan and how much I miss both of them. I know how hard they worked to acquire those assets and I would have to think very hard about spending a penny of that inheritance. I realize I have an advantage because no amount of money at this point is life-changing. I get that part of it. The envy I feel is for the temporary pleasure and glee others feel when they lived life waiting for people to die so they could further squander an inheritance.

Something is wrong with this picture. It feels like irresponsibility is being rewarded or something. I'm pretty sure there are others here who may have similar feelings.

 

[Koolau]

I have had three good friends born and raised in Mexico. Two of them left, one is an upper middle class in Mexico City. One that moved away did live in Obregon, Sanora. From all I've learned over the last few decades, I don't think I would ever move to Mexico. Obviously some places are a lot better than others. Of course, there are plenty of places I wouldn't move in the U.S.

Yeah, more and more places every day, it seems.

 

[old medic]

Ah, yes. Very nice. Beautiful aunt, indeed.

I never received an inheritance - except: My mom and dad did what they were able to do to see that I got a good education. Thanks, mom and dad.

I was given work ethics, I guess. In my entire life, the only thing I was left in inheritance was $1000 when my grandfather died when I was in my mid 20s.
The a few moths ago, My mother showed up with about $1500 in new underlaying plywood to replace it all in our house product. I was in the hospital and was told it was "donated".... She finally relented and said it came from my grandmothers left over money... Who died about 5 years ago. I guess that counts...

 

[Koolau]

I was given work ethics, I guess. In my entire life, the only thing I was left in inheritance was $1000 when my grandfather died when I was in my mid 20s.
The a few moths ago, My mother showed up with about $1500 in new underlaying plywood to replace it all in our house product. I was in the hospital and was told it was "donated".... She finally relented and said it came from my grandmothers left over money... Who died about 5 years ago. I guess that counts...

Sometimes, it really is the small things that we remember and appreciate.

 

[old medic]

How many legged stool do we have? We each have (or will) the standard 3 legs of Pension, SS, and invested. So is that 3 or 6? And then we have a bunch of stuff we could liquidate for cash... Not really investments since most originally cost more than they would sell for, but easily cost $100K+ to replace.

 

[athena53]

That said, I have no empathy for anyone who didn't prepare and now complains about a degraded lifestyle, as if I am supposed to feel guilty about someone else's sub-optimal choices. I made a few of those myself but minimized the damage. It may be cold and insensitive and I never say these things to anyone (anonymous forums like this plus certain FIRE friends excepted). I just keep my mouth shut and say nothing.

<snip> I look at my inheritance which is substantial and I feel a bit of envy because I took it and put it in Vanguard where it sits. I feel it is a legacy that I must pass on unlike some who feel it is a paycheck that should be squandered on paying bills and lifestyle improvements.
<snip>
Something is wrong with this picture. It feels like irresponsibility is being rewarded or something. I'm pretty sure there are others here who may have similar feelings.

There's a middle ground here. My brother's MIL is in Assisted Living and showing signs of dementia- she was widowed when DSIL and her sister were little girls and worked all her life at an assembly-line job. She has little but then she never had the career or educational opportunities that would have allowed her to save for retirement. DB is still working PT at age 68 to help pay for her expenses. Some people are in low-paying jobs that beat your body up (even retail can get to you after decades of walking around all day on cement floors) and they quit early.

Yes, I do see the other side of the coin. I live in an area with poor demographics and the grocery store parking lot is full of shiny new SUVs and F-150s, some of the clerks have elaborate hairstyles and fancy nail treatments and many of the customers have tattoos. The local pro football team is idolized and the stadium is full for home games. I wonder if they're saving any money for their retirement or their kids' education. Is it my business? Not until they rely on the taxpayers when they run out of money.

I was also fortunate to inherit from Dad- I didn't expect much after he was self-paying for LTC for 18 months so I was pleasantly surprised. I'm giving it away over 10 years- mostly to my grandchildren's 529s, some to charity, and I just booked a family trip to Charleston, SC (DS, DDIL, 3 kids and me) in May- airfare, Airbnb (with pool- granddaughter's request ) and van rental. Dad would approve.

 

[Aerides]

Something is wrong with this picture. It feels like irresponsibility is being rewarded or something. I'm pretty sure there are others here who may have similar feelings.

I'm not sure what is "wrong" with what picture, or that everyone who finds themselves in financial difficulty late in life got there due to irresponsibility.

Medical catastrophes, divorce, business failures - all these things can and do happen to good people who worked hard.