What's the smallest amount you can retire on?

We should probably remember that about 50 MILLION Americans have no health insurance. Lots of people drive beater cars, some have only the minimum liability required. If you have a small income, you don't pay any Federal income taxes, and if you're handy, ingenious, inventive and have skills, many of you would be surprised at how good a life you could manage to put together with very little money. We see examples of that every day in our nomadic life, examples that humble us.

For every person we know with a comfortable retirement living, we know several who have very little, yet satisfaction with life, interesting activities, good friends, and lots of fun and freedom seem to be as present in those with little as we see in those with a lot.

Not everyone thinks that a meaningful life can't be lived unless they have a cell phone, broadband internet, world travel and gourmet food.

It would probably be good for a lot of folks who lay awake at night worrying about their portfolios and whether their withdrawal rate from portfolios is "safe", to realize that huge numbers of people are getting along just fine with very little.

Money doesn't have a lot to do with your ability to enjoy life, although middle and upper middle class people in this country seem to think that life would be unbearable without their assets. It's just not true. Ya'll need to get out more and meet more people in different circumstances. It's a wide, wide world out here, and most of the folks don't have great big ole retirement accounts, but they manage and manage well.

If you did, and got to know some of the people we have been lucky enough to know and learn from, you'd probably sleep a lot better at night. There's a wonderful freedom to recognizing that even if your money mostly disappeared, you'd still be all right. That you'd still have a meaningful life.

I wish I could introduce you to such people as "Dumpster Diver Charlotte", or "Steve" the $400 a month liver, or our friend Richard who maintains a serious meditation practice as he caretakes a facility in a national forest on the tiniest of disability incomes.

People who would be flabbergasted to realize that there are folks out there who think that they'd have a hard time getting along with "only" a half million or a million or so in their brokerage accounts......

I'm glad we know differently. We have the nice big fat brokerage account, but we also have lived differently enough to know that if it all disappeared tomorrow, we'd be fine. And THAT is freedom and security. It almost seems a joke that our money has grown so, as we really don't need all that to be happy, and we were just as happy before it multiplied over the years.

I was floating in the pool last night with a 38 year old guy wanting to achieve early retirement. He works for a big corporation, has a six figure income, a paid for home and, as he said, about a half million in his 401k right now. He was talking about how he was hoping that he could manage to leave his job in about twelve years.

I didn't know quite what to say as I happen to know that the other two guys we were floating around with are younger than "normal" retirement age, already retired, and both are spending less than $1,000 per month.

So who's got the world by the tail? After the guy left, the rest of us had a good chuckle.


LooseChickens
 
Bigritchie: Sounds like your a little extravagant on your phone and internet. The last time we talked about it, my brother paid about $50.00 a month for both. The internet is $10 &the phone is about $40. No long distance service,caller ID etc. He has to pay extra if he makes more than 10(I think) calls a month(he doesn't). I don't know what his electric bill is, but he doesn't have AC, and usually the only light in the house is the blue hue from his TV. He doesn't hunt or fish, but gets alot of free meals from the older people in the neighborhood who he helps out around their houses. We live in a small town in WV, so I guess we are neighbors. We better not post here too much anymore or all those people who want to move to Mexico for the cheap living might drop their Spanish lessons and move to our area.
 
jay-pee said:
Bigritchie: Sounds like your a little extravagant on your phone and internet. The last time we talked about it, my brother paid about $50.00 a month for both. The internet is $10 &the phone is about $40. No long distance service,caller ID etc. He has to pay extra if he makes more than 10(I think) calls a month(he doesn't). I don't know what his electric bill is, but he doesn't have AC, and usually the only light in the house is the blue hue from his TV. He doesn't hunt or fish, but gets alot of free meals from the older people in the neighborhood who he helps out around their houses. We live in a small town in WV, so I guess we are neighbors. We better not post here too much anymore or all those people who want to move to Mexico for the cheap living might drop their Spanish lessons and move to our area.
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Yea atm I have free nation long distance for the business which cost me like 50 a month, till I get the store sold Im stuck with that, I keep joking with the wife telling her I am burning the phone when we sell it, her family calls us Alot, which isn't such a bad thing really.

And I do consider high speed internet a must in life now too. Since I cannot always get around real well with my back, I play alot of online games, and I just enjoy gameing. Been one of my secrets to saving money during my life, is playing video games to keep me busy
 
loosechickens said:
I wish I could introduce you to such people as "Dumpster Diver Charlotte", or "Steve" the $400 a month liver,
LooseChickens
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I had a friend Steve who was a $400 a month liver, the booze finally kilt him :D

There is much dumpster diving in my wife's family (hence me) but sometimes things get carried a bit too far. My FIL is the neighborhood CIA as he can read peoples garbage, and he usually does.

I do feel that it is not too difficult for two elderly people to live on $1200/mo in the midwest.
 
I do not want to sound like nothing but a silly redneck.

The point is though, I think so many people complicate their lives and their retirement by going after material things. Not that 200k a year retirement income is bad, but isn't the point of ER to get away from that chase the dollar mentality.
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There are a lot of things I just don't want.

I don't have a clothes dryer.

I have not yet used the A/C this year.

I have cable(basic tier digital) and DSL and a cell phone(pay as you go).

The house is paid for and I have too much stuff.

I am in the process of giving away stuff.

Perhaps our society needs a modern 'potlatch'.
 
Dang BigRitchie, you know how to live cheap! The funny thing is I know a lot of people who live on less than $1,000 a month. Most of them are happy because they have learned to appreciate the little things in life that cost nothing: tasting the first tomato of the season right off the vine, go hike, smell the fresh air and appreciate the beauty of nature, sharing a meal with friends, the smell of fresh bread baking in the oven. All the money in the world can't buy that. I used to live on much less than $1,000 a month as well when I was single. I personally could see myself do it again. But my wife would never go for it. I am pretty sure it would end up in divorce...
 
FIREdreamer said:
Dang BigRitchie, you know how to live cheap! The funny thing is I know a lot of people who live on less than $1,000 a month. Most of them are happy because they have learned to appreciate the little things in life that cost nothing: tasting the first tomato of the season right off the vine, go hike, smell the fresh air and appreciate the beauty of nature, sharing a meal with friends, the smell of fresh bread baking in the oven. All the money in the world can't buy that. I used to live on much less than $1,000 a month as well when I was single. I personally could see myself do it again. But my wife would never go for it. I am pretty sure it would end up in divorce...
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yea thankfully my wife all though not as much of a cheap bastard as me, is on the same page with me at least. ER becomes much easier when your spouse is as dedicated as you are. I kinda did it in a "look we sacrifice now, we can goof off the rest of our lives"

And do not get me wrong, I do not plan on living a utter bare bones life, we plan to do a ton of traveling, ala Akaisha and Billy.
 
Nord, do you happen to have a website about living in Hawaii?

That is one place all my life I have kinda wanted to eventually settle down in.
 
Bigritchie said:
Nord, do you happen to have a website about living in Hawaii?
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I'll start by cautioning that $600/month barely covers our groceries for two adults and a teenager, and we're not exactly spendthrifts...

Here's a few links to start with, and one of them is to a discussion board filled with locals ready to talk about living here:
The state of Hawaii on retiring in Hawaii (Scroll to the bottom of the page for several recommended books.)

State of Hawaii homepage

Hawaii Answers (to questions you hesitate to ask)

HawaiiThreads.com "Islands Ahoy" discussion board. Lurk here for a while, search for your questions, and then post whatever's not covered!
 
That "Rags to Retirement" looks like a neat book, Nords. I looked at it on Amazon.com. One of the key words caught my eye. It was "dance host"

One of the people we've met in our nomadic life was just that. We were standing in line for the buffet at a casino in Laughlin NV, and started talking to this very nice, distinguished looking older man in the line. We ended up having the meal with him and an enjoyable conversation.

He was another one who had retired on a very small budget with mostly just a Social Security check. But he managed to find a way to travel the world. He kept a small studio apartment, but he wasn't there very often. He was out on cruises. Cruise lines gave him free cruises and expenses for asking women to dance in the evenings. He loved to dance, loved even more to go on cruises, so it worked out great for him. He met some nice people, enjoyed the dancing and conversation, and managed this wonderful life on a pittance.

There are so many ways to be inventive and ingenious in putting together interesting lives, it seems a shame to just rely on an investment portfolio. Sometimes I think it has taken a lot of the fun out of life for us. It's just too easy now. We don't put ourselves out there any more.

Thanks for mentioning that book. I can think of several people I'll tell about it who could use that information.

LooseChickens
 
loosechickens said:
One of the people we've met in our nomadic life was just that. We were standing in line for the buffet at a casino in Laughlin NV, and started talking to this very nice, distinguished looking older man in the line. We ended up having the meal with him and an enjoyable conversation.

He was another one who had retired on a very small budget with mostly just a Social Security check. But he managed to find a way to travel the world. He kept a small studio apartment, but he wasn't there very often. He was out on cruises. Cruise lines gave him free cruises and expenses for asking women to dance in the evenings.
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Wow! You can find "bar girls" almost everywhere. They basically perform the same function as this man. Yet no one call them nice, or distinguished. Double standard?

I don't know about you, but to me, that man is just a "bar boy".
 
Well Sam, as he explained it, he worked under very stringent conditions imposed upon him by the cruise line. He was to be present on the dance floor, keeping a special eye out for women without partners, and asking them to dance. It was strictly forbidden for the contact to extend to anything but dancing.

You can associate the dance hosts on a cruise line with bar girls if you like, but that was not the impression he gave. He was probably seventy years old, which would be a little long in the tooth for a bar girl. He did not appear to be offering the same sort of services. More like when my widowed mother went on cruises in her early eighties, she really enjoyed that men asked her to dance. In the forties when she was young, she apparently could really "cut a rug". I'm sure she had no idea that the men who asked her to dance were getting a free cruise and expenses for that chore.

Somehow, I think what she was looking for and what customers of bar girls are looking for were very different things.

But.....if you like, make the connection. Wouldn't you like free cruises all over the world in exchange for a few hours each evening on the dance floor waltzing or doing the foxtrot with some nice elderly woman who is having a little bit of a chance to relive her youth?

LooseChickens
 
he's a taxi dancer. many years ago i had a gay friend who did that for old ladies in palm beach. i'm pretty sure no sex was involved. and that was way before viagra.
 
Call it what you want. In the rare care you don't know, most bars have the same "rules" with their girls.

I don't know if I would like free cruises in exchange for the "work" or not. But I do know that he's not different from any of the bar girls.

You can have the last words. You won't hear from me on this subject anymore.
 
I think I would be willing to get fired from the cruise ship operator in exchange for some good tail.
 
Sam said:
Call it what you want. In the rare care you don't know, most bars have the same "rules" with their girls.
I don't know if I would like free cruises in exchange for the "work" or not. But I do know that he's not different from any of the bar girls.
You can have the last words. You won't hear from me on this subject anymore.
Click to expand...
With apologies to George Bernard Shaw, we're not arguing over his occupation-- only his payments...
 
What the heck, Sam? This guy trades a couple hours of his time each night smiling at the ladies and telling them how light on their feet they are for a free cruise. So? Why are you trying to make that sound distasteful? Every single one of us has sold ourselves for more or less money, and our work in Dilbert World has probably made a lot less people happy, and been less fun.
 
Ah, Sam's just jealous........some other guy is out there getting free cruises.....

The guy did mention that most of the women he danced with were elderly.......he was a bachelor, so there's probably a reasonable chance that he was gay.

Remember.......the way real women look on real cruises is a bit different from the hotties portrayed in the Carnival ads.....from the pictures my Mom would bring back from her cruises, blue hair and polyester pantsuits were the order of the day......

It really DID seem like a neat way to cruise absolutely free. He said he usually spent 2-3 hours in the evening after dinner dancing.....and that since he loved to dance, it was hardly a hardship.

Just another example of how those with limited means manage to live neat lives on a budget. I wouldn't have wanted to have to write a check to pay for all the cruises he got free.......

I think we've killed this particular horse.......we need to move on. ;-)

LooseChickens
 
I think it's great that the guy found something he enjoyed, and was able to see the world while providing welcome company to women who would otherwise find themselves staring over the railing at an empty sea. Widows and long-time divorced women go on cruises, sometimes with their girlfriends, and sometimes alone. In many cases they don't want to be around married people or family, since the former remind them of another time in their lives, while the latter have their own lives to live. They get a great deal of enjoyment out of the fantasy, and it is a small price for the cruise line to let him occupy a cabin that would likely go unsold in any case.

Back to the subject at hand. In my opinion, the smallest amount you can retire on is whatever will allow you the lifestyle you want in retirement. If you have minimal wants/needs, then you will need very little for retirement. On the other hand, if you want to travel extensively, enjoy the finer things in life, etc... then you'll need quite a bit more.
 
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