Will my plan work?

[TargaDave]

Mike,

I looked through the posts but couldn't find the answer to this. Maybe I didn't look close enough. What are you "netting" on the rental properties after all expenses (taxes, upkeep, interest, etc)?

 

[jug]

You and your wife sound pretty sharp to me.  I think you will be fine.

JG

Thanks to you and Steve for the good words, encouragement is always appreciated. Its funny, the ones who pooh pooh my plans are those that usually know the price of everything, but the value of nothing. They are the unfortunate ones, afraid to live life to the fullest, which in itself takes some risk.

Sometimes playing it a bit too safe takes the fun out of life. The worst thing that can happen is I go broke, but the pension and SS will roll in anyhow, so I at least will eat.
thanks again
jug

 

[dumpster56]

Jug

I am in the same position with my pension.

If I stay 4 more years the 31K pension is more like 41K 10 more a year.

However I am so sick of the job the commute etc and my wife is all for the selling of the house and the move to North Carolina from New Jersey.

Heck just last week a commission recommended that they the state of New Jersey change the pension formula get rid of early retirements and other cost savings ideas that would only really ef me with my luck if I decide to stay!

The House will be on the market 1st week in January, heck the Xmas tree will come down and the for sale sign goes up!

I am pumped!

 

[jug]

Jug

I am in the same position with my pension.

If I stay 4 more years the 31K pension is more like 41K 10 more a year.

However I am so sick of the job the commute etc and my wife is all for the selling of the house and the move to North Carolina from New Jersey.

Heck just last week a commission recommended that they the state of New Jersey change the pension formula get rid of early retirements and other cost savings ideas that would only really ef me with my luck if I decide to stay!

The House will be on the market 1st week in January, heck the Xmas tree will come down and the for sale sign goes up!

I am pumped!

You sound like you are also fed up and want to find out what you really want to do. It happens to many of us in this stage of middle life, we burn out, the thrill is gone, and perhaps we are not following our passion, but just working on something we fell into in order to pay the bills.

I believe our passions exist within our dreams, what our hands and minds yearn to do, what we dream about. I think when we see that crack of daylight, the opportunity to escape our present situations, we should run through the crack, since if we wait, the crack may not widen, and will close up, and our chance to follow our dreams and passions will be lost.
jug

 

[BearlyWorking]

Jug - I agree. A month ago I helped to bury one of greatest people I have ever met - a mentor and friend. It brought home how short life may be. Working for Feds I see people every day hanging on a little longer to pad the pension. Most of them are wrecks when they leave. Many don't last 5 years before they are dead or disabled. Scares the crap out of me.

Like alot of people I was trained for one job, research, then gradually was pushed into jobs I was not trained for, including management and administration. Last 2 years were miserable. Not as bad as yours, but affected every part of my life. I drank too much, couldn't sleep, hurt my family life and friendships. When I finally realized that my investment numbers were good, I quit my admin. job and went back to research. After a month of decompression I have started to enjoy life again! I have been pressured and threatened a couple of times since then to get back in, but I told them to stick it. That is the real power of financial independence to me.

Viva Las Vegas!

Peter76 - Not sure on my Wife's pension. I would like to see her quit before it is even a factor so we can have fun together. But that is up to her. 30k rental is gross. A more precise statement would have been that we are living without my income as a test.

Selling a rental straight out is painful. I estimate that about 25% will go to someone else. We may sell main residence (500k tax free!) and just move to a rental for a couple of years. We havn't gotten to that bridge yet.

Mike,

I looked through the posts but couldn't find the answer to this. Maybe I didn't look close enough. What are you "netting" on the rental properties after all expenses (taxes, upkeep, interest, etc)?

Targa,

Net rental numbers are always tricky, but are probably in the 20k range, depending on tax benefits, maint and repair costs for a given year. I have not payed that much attention to the income side. I always thought that anything past breaking even was bonus bucks. I should probably look harder at that in the near future.

Also someone asked about 'early out'. Yes it will be an early out. Not sure if it will be DSR or VERA, but current fiscal crisis in Congress is pressuring many domestic agencies to offer these to anyone that wants one.

Thanks - Mike

 

[uncledrz]

Jug
I read your post and could only think of a comment made to me a few years back about life: "It's not a dress rehearsal".
No reason you shouldn't go, if that's what you want, especially since you are going to something (new house, new town, new life) and have a spouse who is with you on it.
Twenty grand a year is a nice hunk of change, but the idea of "just one more" and next thing you know the ship has left and you're still standing on the dock.
A nice shot of sunshine wouldn't be too bad right now.
Unceldrz

 

[jug]

Jug
I read your post and could only think of a comment made to me a few years back about life:  "It's not a dress rehearsal".   
No reason you shouldn't go, if that's what you want, especially since you are going to something (new house, new town, new life) and have a spouse who is with you on it. 
Twenty grand a year is a nice hunk of change, but the idea of "just one more" and next thing you know the ship has left and you're still standing on the dock.

A nice shot of sunshine wouldn't be too bad right now.
Unceldrz

Trust me, its a very big battle within my head.  Just before I get up in the morning,  I lay in the dark, and I say "what am I crazy or something?"

I make easy money just showing up, I can buy what I want, I dont have to scrimp or worry about anything financial.  I dont ever want to be compelled to work again"

These are my thoughts in the morning darkness, wanting to kick myself.

Then as the day goes on, I feel better, more adventurous and realize how boring things are where I am, how Ive been thrown out of the loop at work.  But on the other hand, no one is really watching me or bothering, they just leave me be.

If I wait the four years, I will have a pension that will essentially leave me in the same place without worrying about earning enough in the market or bank to supplement my pension.

Its really tough, since there is no perfect answer, and I think that perhaps once I get over the "shock" of quitting my job and moving to another part of the country, I will feel better and perhaps fall into a situation that Im enjoying, perhaps the money situation will be better than I thought, perhaps my outlook on life will change for the better.  Right now Im like a drone on autopilot coming into work.

In reality, if people leave me alone, I dont mind getting up to work, its actually traveling home that bothers me, I think its the same old same old.

Ive always liked getting up and going somewhere early, always believed in getting out of the house, makes me feel alive, but I never ever want to be compeled to do it, I just want to do it.

Its a tough place to be.  If I wait, I might miss the boat.  Quitting a job with a partial pension and moving across the country is going into the unknown.  It is dark when I type this, maybe the chemistry will change as the sun comes up.  Interesting observation.

jug

 

[SteveR]

...In reality, if people leave me alone, I dont mind getting up to work, its actually traveling home that bothers me, I think its the same old same old....

jug

This strikes me as a little odd. Are you saying you are more uphappy about going home at the end of the day than getting up and going into work at a boring dead end job? If so, then retirement may make you very unhappy since you will most likely be home more than you have been. If being home is an issue for you I have serious concerns about you having a successful retirement. If I am reading this wrong I apologize, but this sentence just struck my as odd.

 

[jug]

This strikes me as a little odd.  Are you saying you are more uphappy about going home at the end of the day than getting up and going into work at a boring dead end job?  If so, then retirement may make you very unhappy since you will most likely be home more than you have been.  If being home is an issue for you I have serious concerns about you having a successful retirement.   If I am reading this wrong I apologize, but this sentence just struck my as odd.

That is good insight on your part. No, Im glad you are having this discussion with me. This is something that I have to look into. Like I said, the job is very boring, but the reason I dont like the trip home is that perhaps it is just the schlep home, since I have no energy, or perhaps it is the boring life at home. I dont look forward to much at home and there isnt much to do in my area, no intellectual stimulation in my suburb.

Most of the stuff that does interest me is in Manhattan where I work, but to stay there and participate and meet new people is hard, since it is a long schlep home once the rush hour is over.

I would like a hobby, I do jog, but when you get up at 6 am, get in at 9, then get home in the darkness at about 6, you dont have much energy to get inbovled with anything. I need to jog to maintain my mental and physical health, or whats left of it.

Ive been so involved with issues involving workabuse, and abuse in general, that I didnt develop any hobbies to take on except for my jogging and walking.

My wife sits and freakin watches TV all night long, and she doesnt seem to want to talk much or analyse things with me.

But you have a very good point about my bordem. Im going out to the new house this Jan, perhaps the neighborhood and newness of the area will stimulate me somewhat.

Not only is the question financial, the question about ER is also what to do with the time. Im trying to bank that I would fall into a situation where I can adjust the time I spend more economically to concentrate on new interests.

I need to develop new things, since most of my life I was battling problems with my nerves and mind, and didnt have time to sit down and get into something, save for jogging which doesnt take much thought.

Its a hard question about when to retire, Im taking a financial risk if I go now, but if I wait 4 years, Im taking a risk that I may not be around or in good health to enjoy it. Im turning 53 now and my mental health goes from good to lousy.

My physical health could be iffy too, since I dont know what damage has been done to my body from the psyche abuse. My wife has the same problem. We were almost killed several times by our son who was on alcohol, I work near ground zero, have no idea what that did to me. I take blood pressure and nerve meds, my doc says Im pretty healthy, just have problems with my mind that affects my bp, I was born with this tendency I guess. So I really dont know.

I feel good now, can run 5 miles now, but I see people my age dropping dead.

My wife just called and told me her nerves are also shot from her job which is very stressful, but she works 10 minutes from home Its weird, maybe we both need to say F--k you to the world, move to Vegas and live like freakin hippies
jug

 

[dumpster56]

Jug

I have to say the NYC metro area is just too darn crowded.

I mean I grew up in the Bronx in the late 50s and early 60s moved to the NJ suburbs and basically have spent the last 27+ years commuting to and from the job as a teacher in 4 different public school systems . The last 18 in Newark, NJ.

My 115 mile round trip drive these days on the interstate rt 78 is just , well AWFUL!

9/11 did not help. Watching the buildings fall from my classroom window was well ...

Now my kids are grown one a doctor and married the other a professional with a wife and hey like you said maybe head out with the wife and live like hippies!!

Hey I will be 50 in april.

In my case it IS time.

I tell the wife to sell the house everyday.

She is ready right when the Xmas tree comes down, the for sale sign goes in the window.

Take my 300,000 profit buy a place for cash in the raleigh area get a part time job selling kayaks and coach a private school track team.

Lets take our early pensions 4 more years of this and who knows what other blood pressure meds we will be on!

 

[Mr._johngalt]

My wife sits and freakin watches TV all night long, and she doesnt seem to want to talk much or analyse things with me.


jug

Some of us would love to be in that situation.  

Speaking of people dying...............first I wanted to outlive Custer (38).
Then, I wanted to outlive Caesar (56).  Now, I have tied Hemingway
(61).  Not too sure of my next goal.  

JG

 

[Martha]

Jug, do you have the option of taking a leave of absence to get your arms around all your issues? That might be the best thing. Maybe you could get a leave for health reasons--too stressed out.

 

[jug]

Jug, do you have the option of taking a leave of absence to get your arms around all your issues?  That might be the best thing.  Maybe you could get a leave for health reasons--too stressed out. 

In reality, my wife and I both need probably six months off to deal with things, you are very correct. After going to school, 7 years in college plus work, then 26 years work, the only long term period I had off was 2 months in a hospital after suffering a severe breakdown in 89. Dont get me wrong, I do take vacations, but in the middle of life alot of us need a few months sabatical to re-create ourselves.

These bastards in the white house tell us to pull our selves up by the bootstraps, but they never lived our lives. My next time Im opting to be born in France, women, wine, 6 weeks off, med care, and a more civilized life, despite their riots

American people need a break, and this is the reason this board exists, because people are looking to escape the everyday hell other people (bosses, control freaks, narcissists, assine work rules, burnout, and all the other sh-t thrown at us by an archaic feudal system fueled by our obsession with overspending on crap) vampires create for us. If work were a pleasure and we had a sense of community, there would be no need for the FIRE board.

The leave of absence might do it, my friend was suggesting it this morning, he said dont quit, just cut out for a while.

 

[yakers]

One suggestion. ...I was once in a very difficult job situation, two people had nervous breakdowns and I was probably next. Something right out of the Cain Mutiny.
Anyway I'm convinced that what kept me sane at the time was...running. I started slowly and kept it up. My best year I missed 8 days, and I was averaging 8-10 miles a day at the peak. But I ran at lunch and it broke the day into 2 manageable parts. And eventually my whole attitude shifted. Most people who know me now say (and correctly, I think) that I am one of the happiest persons they know. They do not know about the dark days I went through.
Anyway, keep running or meditating or something that opens that part of yourself, we often have more resources within us than we are consciously or rationally aware of.

 

[Ginger]

Jug, you need some time away from the office! Take that leave and get refreshed. The work environment is harsh and right now you sound on the edge. Take the time to heal and do things that are fun and meaningful. You need a break!

 

[Outtahere]

Jay is there a way you could find a job closer to home? Maybe something less stressful? I understand what you're dealing with, I hate my commute as well, my hours arn't as bad but I don't stay for the "bonding" stuff after work either unless it's something I need to attend.

 

[jug]

Jug

I have to say the NYC metro area is just too darn crowded.

I mean I grew up in the Bronx in the late 50s and early 60s moved to the NJ suburbs and basically have spent the last 27+ years commuting to and from the job as a teacher in 4 different public school systems . The last 18 in Newark, NJ.

My 115 mile round trip drive these days on the interstate rt 78 is just , well AWFUL!

9/11 did  not help. Watching the buildings fall from my classroom window was well ...

Now my kids are grown one a doctor and married the other a professional with a wife and hey like you said maybe head out with the wife and live like hippies!!

Hey I will be 50 in april.

In my case it IS time.

I tell the wife to sell the house everyday.

She is ready right when the Xmas tree comes down, the for sale sign goes in the window.

Take my 300,000 profit buy a place for cash in the raleigh area get a part time job selling kayaks and coach a private school track team.

Lets take our early pensions 4 more years of this and who knows what other blood pressure meds we will be on!

This is also a problem, if you have a lousy commute, then it takes the starch out of you. I feel for you, driving is no fun with all the traffic. I take a train and ferry, so it isnt so bad, I sit a bs with my friends.

But I guess you understand me, life is only once, we dont take the dough to the grave and plenty of people who have worried about money, died with plenty of money for their kids.

We are at a peculiar age, this is why in some places, the retirement system should be 50-55 with no more that 20-25 years. Jobs burn you out if you dont have a position that challenges your psyche and gives you support to meet the challenge. The management systems today are becoming even more brutal
jub

 

[Lazarus]

Have you had a physical? Your post struck home for me. I was having trouble just getting through each day. Going to work was always worse than coming home, but there were days that I really didn’t want to. (I have been married for 22 years.) Nothing I could really point to but I was not happy, I seemed a little slow to myself. Just wrote it off to getting older. The physical turned up that I was hypothyroid. That’s an under active thyroid gland. One little pill a day and I feel much better. (Synthroid). It affects energy, mental function and pretty much all aspects of your metabolism. I would encourage your to have a through physical. It could change your life for the better. It did mine.

 

[jug]

Have you had a physical? Your post struck home for me. I was having trouble just getting through each day. Going to work was always worse than coming home, but there were days that I really didn’t want to. (I have been married for 22 years.) Nothing I could really point to but I was not happy, I seemed a little slow to myself. Just wrote it off to getting older. The physical turned up that I was hypothyroid. That’s an under active thyroid gland. One little pill a day and I feel much better. (Synthroid). It affects energy, mental function and pretty much all aspects of your metabolism. I would encourage your to have a through physical. It could change your life for the better. It did mine.

I see my doctor every 4 or 5 months and he is an endocrine man, and he is the same guy treating my mother for thyroid problems, I think also similar to yours. I never thought of this, you could be right, but he's been examining me for 25 years, and I guess he would have done this test.

I suffer from depressive illness, I had all of the classical symptoms since I was in my late teens, except I didnt know it. I had panic attacks galore, extreme fatigue, extreme dizziness that was only alleviated by taking valium. I had no idea that I suffered from this until I was hospitalized in 89 at the age of about 36.

Imagine that, had no idea why I felt so lousy until I ended up in a hospital and started anti-depressant medicine. I essentially suffered from extreme depression and extreme anxiety for many years. This was probably causing my bp problems.

Right now I get may one or 2 panics a year, take a very small maintenance dose of anti depressants.

Today I feel much calmer than I did 20 years ago, take less meds but it was all probably due to traumas suffered in my young life along with a genetic predisposition. My father was very abusive to me. My life was never easy, nothing ever easy, everything was a struggle, so I kind of get a kick out of doing little work and getting paid good for it. But it also bores me.

Im not a religious person, but for those who suffer from life's woes, look at the 23rd psalm, its amazing how it is designed just to soothe you.

All most of us on this board wants is a soft place to land, free of work woes, and free to enjoy ourselves. This is all. Its not really the money, its the freedom that the money buys. Read the psalm, it contains what we are looking for.

My N. Jersey friend who wants to opt out and go to N. Carolina will understand this, even though we are probably of different faiths.

This is why I look at life a bit differently than my colleagues and may opt out earlier and take a financial hit. Health, whether mental or physical is very precious, and to walk around with inner peace is priceless. Freedom from demons is what those who stash their bucks away to opt out early simply want. Its very obvious.

jug

 

[dumpster56]

Jug

Hang in there my friend.

We have made it to this point in our lives all kinds of issues that as I see it are BEHIND us!

New year in a couple of weeks, yes this time of the year is the hardest, the cold weather and snow this early has not helped but take 2006 as a new beginning!

Try not to dwell on the bad, as a friend has always told me,

It is all GOOD!

Darn, I gotta get on the road, Work becons, but not for long!

 

[jug]

Jug

Hang in there my friend.

We have made it to this point in our lives all kinds of issues that as I see it are BEHIND us!

New year in a couple of weeks, yes this time of the year is the hardest, the cold weather and snow this early has not helped but take 2006 as a new beginning!

Try not to dwell on the bad, as a friend has always told me,

It is all GOOD!

Darn, I gotta get on the road, Work becons, but not for long!

I hear you.

I woke up again with the blues, but realized it is the darkness that bothers me, the rain that comes, but you are right, things could be worse, one day at a time. Today is the annual holiday party in Battery Park, time to forget things and make like IM 16 again
jug

 

[tryan]

Mike,

We're in similar situations (I have more real estate but 1/2 the pension and no DW income). I jumped at 43. I say go for it!

30K net on a 950K RE porfolio seems low (>3%) ... I squeezed closer to 5% while working and hope to get 6-7% while retired (since I'll do most maintenance myself). Just an odservation (must be the CA prices; I am in MA).

 

[BearlyWorking]

Tyran

You are right. Real Estate in CA has gone up doubled or more in value over the past few years, but rents have stayed flat. I would need to exchange to some other state in order to get your 5 or 6%. Worth thinking about.

Mike

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Tyran

You are right.  Real Estate in CA has gone up doubled or more in value over the past few years, but rents have stayed flat.  I would need to  exchange to some other state in order to get your 5 or 6%.  Worth thinking about.

Mike

I was watching "Wall Street Business" ?? this morning and they were talking
real estate/mortgage rates/the "bubble" etc. Anyway, they were talking about
a guy who sold his home in the Dallas area for 300K and then replaced it in
Calif. for $1,200,000. I never heard them say why anyone would do such a thing.

JG

 

[BearlyWorking]

Its probably the bubble mentality. People buy as much as they can in a house, because they are sure the market will keep going up. To get the most profit, they buy the most house. Scary.

mike