World Cup Football/Soccer 2018

Generally don't follow soccer but have watched a few of the world cup games. One question I have is why don't they do more to stop all of the obvious divers and those faking injuries? Seems to be an accepted practice, never seen a penalty or foul called for it. Are there no rules against it?
 
Generally don't follow soccer but have watched a few of the world cup games. One question I have is why don't they do more to stop all of the obvious divers and those faking injuries? Seems to be an accepted practice, never seen a penalty or foul called for it. Are there no rules against it?


Sometimes you may get a yellow for obvious simulation, but not often. Most of the time there is some contact but not enough to award a foul. Last season in the English Premier league they introduced retrospective two match bans for diving and a few players were found guilty.


I'm not sure how you would award a penalty against someone who dived. A defender is unlikely to dive in the penalty box as that would give the attacker an advantage and he's only likely to do that as a very last resort.



At this world cup Neymar's obvious dive for which he was awarded a penalty was reversed by VAR, but VAR only applied because a penalty was awarded. Personally, I thought he should have got a yellow for that but justice was done as he got one a few minutes later for a different offense.
 
Generally don't follow soccer but have watched a few of the world cup games. One question I have is why don't they do more to stop all of the obvious divers and those faking injuries? Seems to be an accepted practice, never seen a penalty or foul called for it. Are there no rules against it?

I'll give you a soccer referee's perspective.

The act(s) of faking an injury, embellishing opponent contact and outright simulation are not actually fouls but are regarded as misconducts in the Laws of the Game. Referees are to sanction those with a caution by showing the yellow card.

Neymar's cynical act of simulation, where he attempted to draw a penalty in the Costa Rica match, mandated a caution (yellow card). Failing to issue that caution was clearly a serious mistake by the referee. Had he sanctioned Neymar in that fashion, it is likely that his subsequent throwing of a tantrum by slamming the ball to the turf a few minutes later in an act of dissent would not have taken place. Neymar could not risk a 2nd caution in that match that would have resulted in him being sent off and suspended for Brazil's next scheduled contest. The referee's failure to appropriately punish Neymar for the dive allowed Neymar two separate opportunities to bring the game into disrepute.

Players simulating fouls and injuries for the express purpose of attempting to deceive match officials threatens to undermine the game. It ruins an otherwise beautiful game by introducing suspicion of nearly every player challenge during competition. Making matters worse, even players at the amateur levels of soccer who see professionals committing these acts attempt to emulate these themselves. VAR is a valuable tool to help minimize players attempts at simulation, however, at the end of the day, it is the players who need to clean this up by holding themselves and each other accountable. If they don't, the cynical acts of simulation on their parts will ultimately ruin the sport.
 
I'll give you a soccer referee's perspective.

The act(s) of faking an injury, embellishing opponent contact and outright simulation are not actually fouls but are regarded as misconducts in the Laws of the Game. Referees are to sanction those with a caution by showing the yellow card.

Neymar's cynical act of simulation, where he attempted to draw a penalty in the Costa Rica match, mandated a caution (yellow card). Failing to issue that caution was clearly a serious mistake by the referee. Had he sanctioned Neymar in that fashion, it is likely that his subsequent throwing of a tantrum by slamming the ball to the turf a few minutes later in an act of dissent would not have taken place. Neymar could not risk a 2nd caution in that match that would have resulted in him being sent off and suspended for Brazil's next scheduled contest. The referee's failure to appropriately punish Neymar for the dive allowed Neymar two separate opportunities to bring the game into disrepute.

Players simulating fouls and injuries for the express purpose of attempting to deceive match officials threatens to undermine the game. It ruins an otherwise beautiful game by introducing suspicion of nearly every player challenge during competition. Making matters worse, even players at the amateur levels of soccer who see professionals committing these acts attempt to emulate these themselves. VAR is a valuable tool to help minimize players attempts at simulation, however, at the end of the day, it is the players who need to clean this up by holding themselves and each other accountable. If they don't, the cynical acts of simulation on their parts will ultimately ruin the sport.




I see where you're coming from and you do have a very good point but personally I think diving, and all the other nefarious activity that goes on (elbows in the face, shirt tugging, professional fouls, the odd head butt etc) just adds to the game. It gets the fans riled up and excited, increases the passion of the players and fans alike and creates more talking points and controversy. It also makes the games much less predictable.



That's the thing about football. It's a low scoring game and so matches can be decided by just one or two incidents and so weaker teams always have a chance.


I think if you got rid of all that stuff - it'd be a beautiful game but not much else. Consider this:



After a World Cup game people talk about all the controversial decisions. After the Super Bowl people just talk about the ads at half-time.
 
I'll give you a soccer referee's perspective.

The act(s) of faking an injury, embellishing opponent contact and outright simulation are not actually fouls but are regarded as misconducts in the Laws of the Game. Referees are to sanction those with a caution by showing the yellow card.

Neymar's cynical act of simulation, where he attempted to draw a penalty in the Costa Rica match, mandated a caution (yellow card). Failing to issue that caution was clearly a serious mistake by the referee. Had he sanctioned Neymar in that fashion, it is likely that his subsequent throwing of a tantrum by slamming the ball to the turf a few minutes later in an act of dissent would not have taken place. Neymar could not risk a 2nd caution in that match that would have resulted in him being sent off and suspended for Brazil's next scheduled contest. The referee's failure to appropriately punish Neymar for the dive allowed Neymar two separate opportunities to bring the game into disrepute.

Players simulating fouls and injuries for the express purpose of attempting to deceive match officials threatens to undermine the game. It ruins an otherwise beautiful game by introducing suspicion of nearly every player challenge during competition. Making matters worse, even players at the amateur levels of soccer who see professionals committing these acts attempt to emulate these themselves. VAR is a valuable tool to help minimize players attempts at simulation, however, at the end of the day, it is the players who need to clean this up by holding themselves and each other accountable. If they don't, the cynical acts of simulation on their parts will ultimately ruin the sport.




I did not see that particular simulation, but I have seen a number that should be called and are not... IMO so very flagrant fouls they let go... and I have seen way too many players running at the refs to try and sway the call, and when the call does not go their way they are even worse... today I think most of Iran should have gotten a yellow as they surrounded the ref even though he kept telling them to back off... and it was not just them, but lots of players from lots of teams...


I think that the powers that be have told them to keep the cards in the pocket... I just looked it up and the avg is 3.1 yellows per match, which is both teams... I have seen at least 8 per match that should be called... use the punishment and this kind of crap will stop...
 
Happened to catch "the Vampire's" free kick over my shoulder at Dunkin Donuts
today, Sweet! Sorry to see Russia out so early.
 
Happened to catch "the Vampire's" free kick over my shoulder at Dunkin Donuts
today, Sweet! Sorry to see Russia out so early.

For your information Russia is not out. They moved to the knock out stage and will play Spain next.
 
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I see where you're coming from and you do have a very good point but personally I think diving, and all the other nefarious activity that goes on (elbows in the face, shirt tugging, professional fouls, the odd head butt etc) just adds to the game. It gets the fans riled up and excited, increases the passion of the players and fans alike and creates more talking points and controversy. It also makes the games much less predictable.



That's the thing about football. It's a low scoring game and so matches can be decided by just one or two incidents and so weaker teams always have a chance.


I think if you got rid of all that stuff - it'd be a beautiful game but not much else. Consider this:



After a World Cup game people talk about all the controversial decisions. After the Super Bowl people just talk about the ads at half-time.

Elbows to the head and head butts are acts of violent conduct that can cause serious injury and further escalate tensions in a match to a boil over point. Violent acts have no place in the sport of soccer. If that is somehow "entertaining" to a fan, then I would suggest watching WWF.

Gamesmanship, on the other hand (tug on the shirt, a grab on the arm, etc. attempts at time wasting) is part of the sport. Same with the "professional foul" in attempting to break up a dangerous counter attack. Attempting to influence the referee in those instances or otherwise gain an advantage are some of those accepted norms. One of my credos was, "I'll let players cheat, but never steal". Gamesmanship is a bit of "cheating". Cynical acts of simulation, violent conduct, faking injuries, etc. are forms of "stealing" from the game itself.

"That's the thing about football. It's a low scoring game and so matches can be decided by just one or two incidents and so weaker teams always have a chance."


If lesser skilled teams and players can attempt to gain an advantage over superior opponents through some acts of gamesmanship (what I indicated above), I agree. If, however, that by engaging in acts of violent conduct towards opponents and outright simulation of injuries and fouls they can do the same, then what you are suggesting only serves to cheapen the game itself (including causing serious injury) and ruin it for all, fans included.
 
... today I think most of Iran should have gotten a yellow as they surrounded the ref even though he kept telling them to back off... and it was not just them, but lots of players from lots of teams...




To be fair that ref was rubbish. He got at least two game changing decisions wrong - both with the help of VAR. There is no way that 'handball' was a penalty.
 
and I have seen way too many players running at the refs to try and sway the call, and when the call does not go their way they are even worse... today I think most of Iran should have gotten a yellow as they surrounded the ref even though he kept telling them to back off... and it was not just them, but lots of players from lots of teams...

+1.

Another thing I dislike about the sport. Constant delays with players arguing about every call and a free kick close to the box takes 2-3 minutes to be played.
 
Gamesmanship, on the other hand (tug on the shirt, a grab on the arm, etc. attempts at time wasting) is part of the sport. Same with the "professional foul" in attempting to break up a dangerous counter attack. Attempting to influence the referee in those instances or otherwise gain an advantage are some of those accepted norms. One of my credos was, "I'll let players cheat, but never steal". Gamesmanship is a bit of "cheating". Cynical acts of simulation, violent conduct, faking injuries, etc. are forms of "stealing" from the game itself.

As a former rugby player and fan of the game, let me remind you what they say about the difference between it and futbol.

"Rugby is a game for thugs played by gentlemen. Football is a game for gentlemen played by thugs"

:LOL::cool:
 
As a former rugby player and fan of the game, let me remind you what they say about the difference between it and futbol.

"Rugby is a game for thugs played by gentlemen. Football is a game for gentlemen played by thugs"

:LOL::cool:

DW & I are currently watching the Amazon docu-series about the New Zealand All-Blacks. I've not watched much rugby at all, however, it appears there is a certain level of honesty in its brutish, physical play and that the players themselves seem to have a respect for the game that extends beyond taking cheap shots on opponents.
 
Rugby Union is still a great game. I'm not much on League or Sevens.

The Rugby World Cup is actually quite enjoyable and we followed the last one much as we watch the Futbol World Cup. Mind you, the talent pool of good qualifying countries is a fair bit smaller. The fans more than make up for it though.

Anyway... COME ON DENMARK !!
 
To be fair that ref was rubbish. He got at least two game changing decisions wrong - both with the help of VAR. There is no way that 'handball' was a penalty.


He did miss a number of calls, but there is no way that players should be allowed to do what was being done... if some of this disrespect were done in any American sport I believe they would throw the player out the game... the difference in soccer is they cannot be replaced so it is a harsher penalty... but giving yellow cards to people who run 30 to 50 yards to complain about a call should be done 100% of the time....



I have no problem with the players thinking they got fouled raising their hands and looking at the ref... even showing some anger... but what I saw on that game was uncalled for...


I doubt the will be refing any other game....
 
He did miss a number of calls, but there is no way that players should be allowed to do what was being done... if some of this disrespect were done in any American sport I believe they would throw the player out the game... the difference in soccer is they cannot be replaced so it is a harsher penalty... but giving yellow cards to people who run 30 to 50 yards to complain about a call should be done 100% of the time....



I have no problem with the players thinking they got fouled raising their hands and looking at the ref... even showing some anger... but what I saw on that game was uncalled for...


I doubt the will be refing any other game....

I'm reminded of the great Italian referee, Pierluigi Collina. It was said of Collina that he could stare directly into a player's soul. Collina was masterful, always in control of the match and was able to turn the tables on any player who foolishly thought that they could intimidate the referee. Collina always asserted himself early on in matches and was not afraid to pull the yellow cards within 10 minutes of the opening whistle. When it comes to futbol referees, Collina is one that has earned GOAT status.

Collina.jpg
 
You're watching the wrong program. Wrestlemania is on the WWE channel

I see where you're coming from and you do have a very good point but personally I think diving, and all the other nefarious activity that goes on (elbows in the face, shirt tugging, professional fouls, the odd head butt etc) just adds to the game. It gets the fans riled up and excited, increases the passion of the players and fans alike and creates more talking points and controversy. It also makes the games much less predictable...

I used to think sports were supposed to be about the game, not the posturing, trash talking, cheap-shot antics of narcissistic players. Silly me.

I think if you got rid of all that stuff - it'd be a beautiful game but not much else.
I think if you don't get rid of all that stuff you get pro wrestling or the NFL. Neither of those "professional" units is as interesting as its amateurs.
 
So I tried watching the France-Denmark and Peru-Australia games simultaneously, with The France game on the TV with the sound on and the Peru game on my IPad with no sound. I was concentrating on the France game and just watching the Peru game out of the corner of my eye - effectively just seeing the highlights.



During the game it seemed to me that Australia had a lot more chances and gave a gutsy performance despite losing. However, most of the reviews I read after the game are claiming that Australia were much poorer than I thought - oh well.
 
I used to think sports were supposed to be about the game, not the posturing, trash talking, cheap-shot antics of narcissistic players. Silly me.


I don't think they're posturing and most of them aren't narcissistic - no more than the general population. What they are trying to do is win the game at all costs and gain every minute advantage they can. That's how most of them got where they are now, by being ultra competitive in the first place. Can you imagine the kind of pressure they are under? Billions of people around the globe watching and the hopes of the entire nation resting on their shoulders.
 
I don't think they're posturing and most of them aren't narcissistic - no more than the general population. What they are trying to do is win the game at all costs and gain every minute advantage they can. That's how most of them got where they are now, by being ultra competitive in the first place. Can you imagine the kind of pressure they are under? Billions of people around the globe watching and the hopes of the entire nation resting on their shoulders.

I expect that few, if any professional players at all, reached the highest level of the game by elbowing or head butting opponents in the face. And for those players who would routinely bring the game into disrepute by committing acts of violent conduct and/or engaging in simulation of fouls and injury as a means of "gaining an advantage", then they need to be run out of sport.
 
As a former rugby player and fan of the game, let me remind you what they say about the difference between it and futbol.

"Rugby is a game for thugs played by gentlemen. Football is a game for gentlemen played by thugs"

:LOL::cool:


I only ever played Rugby once. It was always football at our school. Then one time we had a temporary teacher who decided to teach us Rugby. All I remember about it was that it was a really, really cold day and I got punched in the face and my lower lip was cut really badly, but didn't feel much pain until later after I warmed up a bit.
 
I only ever played Rugby once. It was always football at our school. Then one time we had a temporary teacher who decided to teach us Rugby. All I remember about it was that it was a really, really cold day and I got punched in the face and my lower lip was cut really badly, but didn't feel much pain until later after I warmed up a bit.


I remember back when I first started working after college... there were a few guys who would go and play rugby... at that time I knew very little of the game and after listening to them I really did not care for it much...


All the talk was 'did you see how I took out that guy', or 'man you laid him out'... never about scoring or winning...
 
I did not see that particular simulation, but I have seen a number that should be called and are not... IMO so very flagrant fouls they let go... and I have seen way too many players running at the refs to try and sway the call, and when the call does not go their way they are even worse... today I think most of Iran should have gotten a yellow as they surrounded the ref even though he kept telling them to back off... and it was not just them, but lots of players from lots of teams...


I think that the powers that be have told them to keep the cards in the pocket... I just looked it up and the avg is 3.1 yellows per match, which is both teams... I have seen at least 8 per match that should be called... use the punishment and this kind of crap will stop...

I did not see that particular simulation, but I have seen a number that should be called and are not

Some are outright simulation and should be sanctioned as a misconduct. Others involve embellishment of minor contact and deserve an ass-chewing. Sometimes, but not always, it can be a fine line between the two.

and I have seen way too many players running at the refs to try and sway the call, and when the call does not go their way they are even worse

Agreed. Referees who fail to stand up to these sorts of attempts at intimidation not only undermine their own authority, but also set up the next referee for the same treatment.

I think that the powers that be have told them to keep the cards in the pocket

There is some truth here. Up until 5 years ago, when I was still licensed and active as a referee - whether it was the governing bodies of USSF, NISOA, NJCAA - we were "strongly encouraged" to try and keep from having to send players off. Red and yellow cards are a referee's currency on the field. Their use needs to "buy" the referee something of value, i.e. match control and integrity, player safety, fairness and ultimately helping players avoid additional sanctions that will result in them being sent off. Over reliance on the cards and their overuse can devalue their effectiveness. At the same time, players have a responsibility, as well, to avoid engaging in misconduct. That's why it is important for referees to get on that early and as often as necessary. Better to pull that first yellow card in the 8th minute rather than cutting a player a break, then having to pull 3 more in the 40th.
 
So, how about a friendly contest. Let's pick our top two finishers in each group. My picks

Group A - Russia, Uruguay
Group B - Spain, Portugal
Group C - France, Peru
Group D - Argentina, Nigeria
Group E - Brazil, Serbia
Group F - Germany, Mexico
Group G - England, Belgium
Group H - Colombia, Poland


I did a +1 on this many moons ago... we have


A - Uruguay, Russia
B - Portugal, Spain
C - France, Denmark
D - Croatia, Argentina
E - likely Brazil, Switzerland
F - likely Mexico, Germany
G - England, Belgium
H - likely Japan, Columbia


I am a bit surprised how bad teams like Argentina and Spain have played... even France...



Just did a click through on a web site that has % of winning and it looks like a Brazil vs Spain with Brazil winning... surprised with this, but Spain has an easier path to the Finals...



I am going to hope that Russia knocks them out first game... that would make that side of the draw wide open!!
 
II am a bit surprised how bad teams like Argentina and Spain have played... even France...

I'm not at all surprised about Argentina. They were absolutely horrible throughout the final qualification stage in CONMEBOL. If not for Messi heroics in their final qualifier, they'd be at home watching like the rest of us.

Croatia is red-hot right now.

Still liking my dark-horse Belgium pick.
 

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