Would you buy in a golf course development?

[Big_Hitter]

I do know that the exclusive Carlton Woods courses (two) went private two years ago as the members bought the place out. The buy in was $100,000 per member family (on top of what was originally assessed). But that place is also nicknamed "Carlos Woods. Figure it out for yourself!

I played carlton woods once - what a nice course

 

[DFDubb]

heck no - does the OP not golf?

Correct, OP is not a golfer, more looking for a view.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I just found out today from a board member that the Golf Course in our development cannot be built on if it goes belly up or gets sold, It is deeded so and specifies no PUD. As we are surrounded by natural Marsh which is actually a selling point for some homes, the greens would just revert back to marsh.

 

[Crabby Mike]

We live in a golf course community, but membership is not tied to the house. The surrounding beauty is hard to beat. It’s like living in a park. No houses behind us. Quiet with greenery year round. The clubhouse acts like a neighborhood gathering place. I am told only 10% of the neighbors actually play golf. The rest are there for the other amenities like the pool, restaurant, scenery, etc. Home sales around the course are actually increasing and the lots will be all gone probably within 2 years.

We are elevated and balls land occasionally in a rocky open space behind our patio. Our neighbor collects them as a hobby. Only one has hit the house as far as we know. Picture of our backyard.

Funny, that looks so much like the backyard of our winter home that for a moment I thought I might be your neighbor (the one who collects the stray balls, since I have several hundred). Probably not, though we similarly are in the premier development, on by far the best course, in the area.


And I think/hope that may be our saving grace. It sounds to me like the courses most likely to close are in areas with too much competition. But this thread has awakened me to the danger (as a non-golfer, this decline was news to me), and we'll do our best not to overstay the course's sell-by date.

 

[timo2]

In our area there was a course that is now closed. all the streets around the course have golf style names like ' Jack Nicklaus, 'Country Club road', etc. But there is no golf course. I wonder if the houses on the course had an extra charge back in the day. Now there is a big dust-up regarding every proposal to revitalize the former golf course. The people with houses on the course want more say than everyone else thinks they should have, etc.

 

[GravitySucks]

Surprised no one brought up living with such high concentrations of pesticide, herbicide and fertilizer in their back yard.
It would concern me.

 

[CaliKid]

We don't golf but may of the nicer communities that we have looked at in AZ have integrated golf courses. We might end up in a GC community hoping for the best which might be letting the course revert to desert when the cost of water precludes golf operations.

That's my thought or at least hope with a couple of the courses I am looking at homes in Vegas (one a TPC course and one a Jack Nicklaus). I don't see them stopping as golf courses unless water becomes really expensive. However, the Badlands Golf Club, that I mentioned above, in Vegas is a good example of what can go wrong. I have not read the lawsuit but my understanding is the developers want to develop homes on the former golf course. In many spots there are million, and even multi-million, dollar homes on the former (now overgrown) course. If it just reverted to desert that would be cool as it preserves the view. However, I can't imagine if my view turned to another house! That would suck!

 

[Rustic23]

We live in a community that had/has a golf course. It is a Pete Dye course, and at one time was a PGA qualifying course. It has been closed for almost 8 years. The owner upon closing the course, he gave the subdivision permission to use ie keep up the course at not cost to him. The HOA spends about fifty thousand to keep the rough, and residence some golfers and some not, pay to keep it playable. The owner kicks in about another fifty to one hundred grand. Works for those that want to play anytime, walk the course, bike, and other uses.

We have heard that several golf course brokers have looked at the course. It would cost five mil to bring the course to standards, and five years to operate at a profit. At that time the course would be worth five mil.

We chat with the owner's rep several times a year. There is interest in the course, but no takers.

Edit: The land is worth more as homes than a course. i.e. the property tax value is five mil.

 

[MichaelL]

My parents lived in the Del Webb Sun City community in Palm Desert. They had a golf course that ran through the property. There was a large lot premium to be on the golf course, maybe $100,000 in a community were the bigger homes were $450,000. I would never live on the golf course. People who did had golf balls crashing down on their patio all the time. Broken windows were common. Some people put up Plexiglas shields. I'd be really concerned about getting hit in the head and seriously injured if you were sitting out on your deck. Of course the golfers never admitted responsibility. Insurance premiums went up and had high deductibles. Otherwise I liked Sun City. They had several gyms, and pools and two restaurants and two club houses, plus lots of activities.

 

[brucethebroker]

I think the risk is significant, especially if the home includes "bundled golf" where by deed you are required to be a member of the private country club whether you golf or not. A friend of mine has such a property in a nice area... he and his wife both golf and it is a very nice life-style for them... but I fear that if golf continues to decline that eventually that at some point the bundled golf will be a liability on the value of their property rather than an asset.
/QUOTE]

Even on "non-bundled" course neighborhoods, the fees are considerably higher for HOA dues. At least that was what we found when looking a few years ago.

 

[COcheesehead]

I think the risk is significant, especially if the home includes "bundled golf" where by deed you are required to be a member of the private country club whether you golf or not. A friend of mine has such a property in a nice area... he and his wife both golf and it is a very nice life-style for them... but I fear that if golf continues to decline that eventually that at some point the bundled golf will be a liability on the value of their property rather than an asset.
/QUOTE]

Even on "non-bundled" course neighborhoods, the fees are considerably higher for HOA dues. At least that was what we found when looking a few years ago.

We pay...wait for it...$400 a year.

 

[timo2]

Surprised no one brought up living with such high concentrations of pesticide, herbicide and fertilizer in their back yard.
It would concern me.

That is a concern also, to me.

 

[COcheesehead]

That is a concern also, to me.

Probably higher concentrations in any other high end suburban neighborhood in America because you have an untrained person applying it. Your neighborhood Phil.

 

[CaliKid]

Probably higher concentrations in any other high end suburban neighborhood in America because you have an untrained person applying it. Your neighborhood Phil.

Well said and I agree.

 

[tb001]

Surprised no one brought up living with such high concentrations of pesticide, herbicide and fertilizer in their back yard.
It would concern me.

That was definitely a consideration when we bought. In our case, we’re elevated with a significant distance between us and the course. If we had been downhill, I don’t think we would have purchased. This also means no golf balls in our yard.

Our course isn’t tied to the community and is a public course. So no extra fees associated with having the course. It’s highly unlikely that the course owners would ever get approval to build in our community. They actually tried several years ago to add a resort, which we would have loved, but the city wouldn’t approve it.

 

[RunningBum]

There's also the early morning mowers.

 

[COcheesehead]

There's also the early morning mowers.

Better than late night dogs barking.

 

[COcheesehead]

First thing we noticed after moving to our course side home was just how quiet it was.

 

[RunningBum]

Better than late night dogs barking.

Good point. A golf course is a good night time neighbor.

 

[tb001]

First thing we noticed after moving to our course side home was just how quiet it was.

Yes! It’s remarkable and one of our favorite things about being here. Monday mornings they do maintenance on the course, but we’re up anyway. Compared to most places we’ve lived, this is paradise noise wise. And the view is incredible.

 

[Scrapr]

Good point. A golf course is a good night time neighbor.

Well the night time/early early morning sprinkler sets helps keep out the riff raff. Dad built a home for us on the 8th fairway. Right at a good drive from the tee. Had at least one go clear over the house and land in the street. We just kept an eye out when we were in the backyard. Ball lands in the yard just be nice & throw it out on the fairway. Dad had big 12-14' tall windows. But somehow there were strike resistant. They never broke. Dad did put up a netting on the window that directly faced the tee in the later years. Mom would collect balls out of the flowers. When the boys played golf we got "recycled" balls.

Overall we enjoyed it. Middle brother has lived on a course for 30 years

 

[RetMD21]

We live in a golf course community in AZ, but not on the course. The lot premiums run from $100k to $200k. When the base price of home is $250,000 to about $500,000. So lot premiums can exceed 50% of the cost of the home. Doesn't seem logical to me. Then there is the occasional broken window, and the noise of mowers and golfers at 5 AM. I wonder if homeowner's insurance is higher if you live on the course? What if you get a golf ball in the head while on your patio? Lastly, in Arizona, there is always the continual issue of running out of water. I'll take our view of the open desert instead.

Are you concerned about rising HOA fees as water gets more expensive? We looked at an established GCC in AZ and understood the the HOA now owns the course. I don't know what would happen if the homeowners voted to close the course. I am not sure that there is a good option for reduced maintenance since the climate isn't hospitable to grass.

 

[sidewinder0024]

We live in a golf club community in Orlando, Florida and I wouldn’t do it again. Several golf courses across Central Florida have closed in the past couple years because of the decreased interest in the sport. It’s very quiet and beautiful in my neighborhood all the time. The golf course recently closed and now the owner wants to put in 180 single family homes. We are fighting to keep our neighborhood like it was but we are waiting for vote of the county government’s to see if the homes will be allowed. If allowed it will cause increased traffic, noise and decreased home values for all current home owners. I hope the development is stopped but doubt that it will.

 

[rk911]

nope. we don’t play golf and waaaaaay too many CCRs.

 

[Monterey298sc]

Never ever in a higher tax liberal state