Am I The Only Boomer Who Hates This ?

[Options]

Agree, and I'm on my way to doing the sidestep. Just OMY. No problem in passing the baton. However, I reserve the right to be a bit cranky while still in that OMY.

....

IMHO, anyone in the throes of OMY has earned the right to throw whatever tantrum they like..

 

[MRG]

So what keeps you from dressing as you desire and ignore/enjoy the loser environment?

Expecially in IT where it's been proven ties stifle creativity.

 

[RetiredGypsy]

The counts of the indictment are luxury, bad manners, contempt for authority, disrespect to elders, and a love for chatter in place of exercise. …

Children began to be the tyrants, not the slaves, of their households. They no longer rose from their seats when an elder entered the room; they contradicted their parents, chattered before company, gobbled up the dainties at table, and committed various offences against Hellenic tastes, such as crossing their legs. They tyrannised over the paidagogoi and schoolmasters.

-Socrates, or Plato...maybe

 

[Options]

I'm also an even split engineer / IT person, a few years behind you, but I don't have an opinion about the stuff you mention.

My beef with the IT world is that there are too many incompetent youngsters in the field. Not naming any countries in particular, but my megacorp hired a half a dozen recent grads that couldn't code their way out of a paper bag. I consistently and easily got more accomplished than all of them together, while at the same time dragging them forward. They simply did not have a knack for the work; all they did was go through the paces to get a degree in said non-US country. So I'm cranky about that, but not about how they look or when they show up for work.

Then you've worked around the wrong people. There are a lot of positively brilliant people in their twenties. A sibling, still working in his 60's and in extremely high demand, will only work for what he considers to be the most cutting edge IT companies with very bright people. Many of those people he says are one-third his age.

 

[sengsational]

^I didn't say I didn't work with some brilliant youngsters. The ones I hired were amazing!

 

[Bamaman]

LOL funny thread! I'm winding down my 30 plus year IT career and see all the kids.

What I notice about the new young kids is that they are incredibly glued to their smart phones. It's almost as if they are unable to talk face to face and their social skills are very lacking. I remember being the youngest at work, for what felt like years, and got ahead by forging friendships with my elders on the job. That doesn't happen at all now.

Went to the great granddaughter's first birthday party, and there were 25 young adults there. Everything was suddenly quiet, and I noticed all 25 were pecking on their cell phones. Yep, social skills are now lacking by certain generations. It's even worse to be on a long trip with a couple of cell phones in the car--torture.

I was on the phone excessively during work, however when I retired seldom do I even talk on the phone. I dumped my cell phone earlier this year and feel like a bird out of a cage. The wife carries a pay by the minute phone if I absolutely need communications, but she too seldom uses it.

 

[Yarnstormer]

I'm about to branch out on my own - work at home - you can bet I will keep off hours and dress like a bum that just got off her bike after a long ride! But I will keep some appropriate outfits for the rare occasions when I need to visit corporate customers.

I see all kinds in the workplace. You see young people with overdeveloped work ethics and older people that think it's ok to call in hung over. You have to remember tho that millennials are NOT kids, they are adults. Times have changed to meet new demands. Due to increased use of technology like email and dropbox etc in the workplace my work rarely requires a face to face with anyone. So I don't dress to meet the public because I don't need to.

 

[bradaz2488]

I'm 53 and have interviewed/hired many millennials when I was a project manager for a high tech Mega-Corp. Yes, it bother me at first that they seemed to have totally different work ethics and priorities then I just realized that it is a generational thing and I'm sure my parents generation felt that same way about us. The bottom line is if they can meet or exceed the expectation of the job with flexible hours and/or working remotely then who am I to say it is wrong. Another observation I saw was that female millennials (in general) seem to have more ambition, confidence and maturity vs. their male counterparts. There are two things that I just never could understand. They do not understand the "pay your dues" to get ahead. They seem to expect everything upfront. The other thing was "loyalty". Being in a high tech profession it could take a couple of years to train people before they actually start to contribute to the level to their peers. The millennials were very comfortable moving to other groups or companies after we had spent the time training them. They seemed to have no loyalty to the group that hired and trained them.

 

[JoeWras]

They seemed to have no loyalty to the group that hired and trained them.

Ah, but this is where they are smart, smart, smart.

You see, they noticed that The Man (that would be our generation) lost loyalty to their employees and lays them off at a whim.

So, the Millennials are brilliantly mobile with no loyalty. I say all this without sarcasm. We are the dupes who still hold loyalty. And we are the ones who taught them to be this way.

 

[athena53]

Not long ago I dropped by my old employer and the guy that replaced me had jeans on with shirt hanging out. Also had a ball cap on. I know things have become more relaxed, but I'm surprised he gets away with it.

Was it on backwards? That always looks goofy to me.

Someone mentioned the "collaborative" work environment. I know it's partly the employers trying to save on rent but I never got used to Cubicleville. In my last job, my coworker on the other side of the partition had long conference calls and she talked a lot. I'd definitely put her in the hard-working, smart, driven category, but I took to wearing noise-cancelling headphones, which at least deadened the sound so I could focus. I think younger people are more able to work with background noise- I knew some who actually preferred to work with their headphones on listening to music. That would destroy my concentration completely.

 

[bradaz2488]

Ah, but this is where they are smart, smart, smart.

You see, they noticed that The Man (that would be our generation) lost loyalty to their employees and lays them off at a whim.

So, the Millennials are brilliantly mobile with no loyalty. I say all this without sarcasm. We are the dupes who still hold loyalty. And we are the ones who taught them to be this way.

Yep, I can not argue with your point. It was just hard not to take it personally when you invested so much time & money into them...

 

[MRG]

Look at what has happened to the corporate w*rk place. We loathed cubes, these folks get all of three lineal feet on a table. Write code with someone staring you in the face. No thanks!

 

[JoeWras]

Was it on backwards? That always looks goofy to me.

Someone mentioned the "collaborative" work environment. I know it's partly the employers trying to save on rent but I never got used to Cubicleville. In my last job, my coworker on the other side of the partition had long conference calls and she talked a lot. I'd definitely put her in the rad-working, smart, driven category, but I took to wearing noise-cancelling headphones, which at least deadened the sound so I could focus. I think younger people are more able to work with background noise- I knew some who actually preferred to work with their headphones on listening to music. That would destroy my concentration completely.

Cubicleville? Wait! That's luxury! We're talking OPEN SPACE, the Next Best Thing. Cubes are awesome compared to the new paradigm. You must be retired and missed out.

 

[38Chevy454]

I guess the old saying "Dress for the job you want, not the job you have" has a different, ahem, "wrinkle" nowadays.

If that was the case, I would be among the most casual worst dress in the office - since the job I want is to be retired.

Back to OP, I am 53 and when I started as an engineer the standard dress attire was wearing a tie. Fridays were typically no tie days. Now almost nobody wears a tie, unless a big meeting with out of town visitors or similar situation. I like the no tie dress code, although I think some of the younger folks can abuse what I think is appropriate for the office. For example, I always wear a regular button shirt and business type shoes. Never catch me in flipflops or an old t-shirt. Also no shorts for me at work. Must be some of that wearing a tie culture has just not let go yet!

As for work hours, I am pretty mixed on that. For salary positions, you are hired to do your job. There is a certain expectation to be available when required. Maybe I am too much of an hourly mindset, but I always put in my full day of time. I do not like being expected to work evenings or weekends, although can do that as part of the job needed. One of my biggest gripes was travel, the unwritten rules were travel off-business hours, which meant on your time. So in this case I think flexible hours and taking time off work during normal work hours is reasonable.

 

[athena53]

Cubicleville? Wait! That's luxury! We're talking OPEN SPACE, the Next Best Thing. Cubes are awesome compared to the new paradigm. You must be retired and missed out.

Yes, I am retired. Darn good thing. I had my last real office (like, with a door that opened and closed and views of planes going into and out of Newark Airport) in 1995. Only working from home surpassed that.

 

[bradaz2488]

They do seem to get their feelings hurt a little more easily than workers did 40 years ago;
Amethyst

Yep, I experience this too, especially during review time. Any kind of constructive feedback on areas of improvement usually resulted in a very defensive reactions and would spend lots of time arguing over the review. A couple times (both male) would even cry. It was really weird and uncomfortable. I totally expected to get a phone call from their Mom's.

 

[MRG]

Yes, I am retired. Darn good thing. I had my last real office (like, with a door that opened and closed and views of planes going into and out of Newark Airport) in 1995. Only working from home surpassed that.

I know, as an entry level programmer I scored a private office, overlooking the Downtown KCMO airport. Not too much air traffic there but the view afforded viewing of a wide area. It's funny what normal sane people sometimes do when they believe no one can see them.

 

[rodi]

The dress code thing is interesting. When I started out as a baby engineer there was a loose dress code, here in San Diego - but not suits it got more casual over the next few years. When I moved back east to Pennsylvania - guys had to wear ties and women had to wear nice slacks or skirts with stockings... I had to buy all new clothes for this new (to me) environment. I have no understanding how nylons were appropriate for an engineer who often had to crawl under lab benches to re-run new wiring for new test/debug setups. (Worked in the cable industry.)

Then our division was merged with a California division and the engineers were working on products together... The California group was all about shorts and t-shirts... There was some friction about the dress code and they realized they would *never* get the California crew into ties and dress shirts... they'd quit and get jobs at another tech company. So they relaxed the east coast dress code... It was never as common to see shorts on the east coast group - but it was "allowed" technically. When I transferred to the California group - my daily dress became cropped pants, t-shirt, and flip flops.

My point is that a lot of the dress code thing isn't age - it's regional culture.

 

[JoeWras]

Rodi: yep.

 

[MichaelB]

Here is my problem - I find it fairly weird to see the standard "office environment" degrade (my opinion) into relative anarchy, with managers and administration seeming to cater to the young people in many ways, not the least of which are - lax work hour rules; permissive rule about dress code, work hours, office etiquette, etc. Seems to me that when I was young, adults ruled the world, and when I got "old", young people rule the world.

My Question: Am I nuts to think this is going in the wrong direction, showing my age, or just a cranky old guy?

I sympathize with this sentiment and enjoyed the workplace where employees conformed to standards of dress and etiquette that were more demanding.

On the other hand, we received better benefits, more on the job training, and far more job stability. The gap between the top, median and average earnings wasn't so great and some people even had pensions. Now, with a continuing risk of losing ones job, no training, and a stagnating wage, the undemanding culture is a natural byproduct.

 

[pb4uski]

I guess I'm just too results-oriented. As long as the work got done when it needed to be done in a quality manner I didn't particularly care when it was done and if they were dressed or naked.

I think the difference is when we were entering the workforce supply exceeded demand, and today demand exceeds supply, so employers have to suck it up and be flexible.

 

[Hamlet]

It seems typical that every generation rebels against its elders to some extent, and that most elders don't approve. Right or wrong, most people resist change, especially with age - though most elders don't realize it in my experience (and stridently insist otherwise).

Your last sentence is probably right. While you may not approve of Millenials lifestyles, I suspect the elders from the 70's approved even less of Hippies. And I suspect they felt they no longer "ruled the world" (your description). While we weren't all hippies, our generation was influenced by their movement and others. Just as Millenials seems to be laying waste to conformity from your perspective, hippies started that ball rolling. [Ironically hippies grew into Boomers, an argument can be made that we made things (much) worse as adults than our youthful idealism might have promised - but that's another well worn thread. Maybe Boomers, former Hippies, have little room to criticize?].

Yup. I'm only 44, but I get the impression that we are going through a time that has a lot of parallels to 1968. A lot of turmoil and friction between generations (as well as other different social groups).

I find that most people older than me don't seem to remember what it was like to be young. My memories of it are fading as well now.

For now though, I am still more likely to get angry at the older generation than the younger one. This Gen-Xer still reflexively holds the Boomer generation in contempt

 

[Options]

Yup. I'm only 44, but I get the impression that we are going through a time that has a lot of parallels to 1968. A lot of turmoil and friction between generations (as well as other different social groups).

I find that most people older than me don't seem to remember what it was like to be young. My memories of it are fading as well now.

For now though, I am still more likely to get angry at the older generation than the younger one. This Gen-Xer still reflexively holds the Boomer generation in contempt

To say young people have no social skills is absurd. If you've been around them, you would know they're as social as any other group. And I've seen an entire table of boomers in a restaurant glued to their phones, so young people are not the only ones who are "head hangers".

Some of the best business blogs I read this last year were authored by Millenials and Gen-Xers. One of the best business books I read last year was Deep Work by 34 year old Cal Newport. I for one am quite bullish on all generations after the boomers, of which I am one (which is one reason why I'm bullish on the future as well).

 

[braumeister]

This Gen-Xer still reflexively holds the Boomer generation in contempt

We're not all that enamored of you either.

 

[Philliefan33]

+1

+2

I've worked with Millennials in two distinct settings, and I've been impressed with most of them.

At Megacorp, the young scientists coming in were eager to please, probably because they were eager to advance. They worked a little differently in some cases but they definitely pulled their weight.

As river guides, we've got more river hippies than corporate geeks, but there is plenty of both and we get along well. The young ones there are less likely to be caught up in acquisition of things, they live for the experience. Many of them packed up after the season and headed to other adventures, landing minimum-wage jobs in places they wanted to explore. They work to live and don't fret about the future.

I don't feel that I "lost my chance to rule". I never felt like I was owed that.