An interesting article

[PandaBear]

I read this and felt there was truth in it.
I mean, Dh and I have worked hard, lived under our means, didn’t “buy” up a house, drive our cars for 19 years, brought our luck to work.....all the things to do right.
In the other hand, we never had a major medical problem. We only had one layoff (for 6 months) that ends up with Dh making a higher salary than he was laid off from (and joined a previous company that bridged his service resulting in a higher pension)’ we didn’t need to support our parents, we didn’t have a disabled child...the list goes on.

So, while we did a lot of things right, I am also aware we were lucky!

https://thefinancialdiet.com/why-i-...wtRCYhGOCLh8UcwmiL73FnfxYFNiBRRnXgxVbttpPlDqs

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

RIght out of the shoot I disagree with this point "You can become wealthy on minimum wage — provided you don’t have: children or other dependents, ongoing medical conditions, bad credit,. ...." Bad credit isnt really something you can pin on circumstances. Bad credit is a thing you actively participated in particularly at this young person's age, unless your mama bought her fridge in your name as a child. And as to her first point, a basic principle of the FIRE movement does NOT involve attempting to become wealthy on minimum wage. Its earn more, spend less, create wealth.

This is a self indulgent piece that manages to reference all the social buzzwords of sexism, equality, student loans and give people a "pass" for not generating any wealth because they have NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for their financial success. They are purely a victim of their circumstances. RUbbish. Wrap a fish in this article. Youre welcome

 

[Rianne]

I don't consider our RE situation to be 80% luck. I do agree opportunity and LBYM has a lot to do with it. The author bought real estate in Oregon at the right time. That was lucky, I suppose. We followed Jack Bogle's advice early on and that was key for us. The DIY 60/40 portfolio long term investment strategy proved to be successful. All the ups and downs of large expenses happen to everyone. The 2008 downturn, we lost $60K selling our house in MI in 2012. Did not have children but faced several major health issues.

I do agree, how do you save 20 or 30% of your salary on minimum wage? Opportunity is important but is not always luck. There are many ways to take advantage of a good opportunity. The right career choice (not always a 4 yr. degree) is one. Realizing the talents and tools you have to get ahead. Understanding how to LBYM is huge. How many $M athletes go bankrupt? They had the opportunity but did not LBYM.

 

[OldShooter]

I don't consider our RE situation to be 80% luck. ...

It depends on how broadly you think. You won the ovarian lottery (ref Buffett), as did I. I also won by being born male, white, and to a family that appreciated education and could afford to support me in college and share support in graduate school. So before I ever pooped in a diaper, I had effectively won the lottery. Nothing I have done in my life since that point has been as important to my success as that first lucky lottery ticket.

 

[Montecfo]

Yeah I feel the piece is kind of a train wreck.

The actual reason more folks cannot fire is they prioritize things other than saving and smart personal finance.

I am not.making light of serious personal setbacks, but people can and do overcome all the obstacles mentioned. Why not be one of them?

 

[razztazz]

There are many ways to take advantage of a good opportunity.

But you don't know what they are unless you can know the outcome. Maybe you do what appears to be the only thing any sentient person would do in that situation and..... it doesn't "work out" for you. And in fact you can't really know there's an opportunity there. Not really. Might look like an opportunity to you but not someone else. Or thank heavens you can take advantage of that Opp instead of being trapped by other responsibilities or maybe... uh... bad luck. And even invoking the concept of "opportunity" means you're conceding, yeah, it's luck. The opportunity and the outcome. Even the concept of free market and "invisible hand" says nobody is solely responsible for their outcome. Adam Smith pointed this out in Wealth of Nations. It's a big snowstorm of moving parts known and unknown. And unknowable.

Sure, as we all know and have experienced, certain behaviors highly correlate with certain outcomes. One of my standard lectures to certain people includes "So, what are you doing about it!?

I've seen it every which way. Some people are lazy, incompetent or average on their best day. Try a little of this or a little of that....or not. Come through well off with not a scratch on 'em. Because it "worked out." And those don't count the ones whose folks have indeed set them up for life. Other people...? Well, the old phrase is "can't win for losing." Yes of course we all know "Hey, life's not fair!' That only reinforces the "luck" or" weakest link" principle.

 

[pb4uski]

It depends on how broadly you think. You won the ovarian lottery (ref Buffett), as did I. I also won by being born male, white, and to a family that appreciated education and could afford to support me in college and share support in graduate school. So before I ever pooped in a diaper, I had effectively won the lottery. Nothing I have done in my life since that point has been as important to my success as that first lucky lottery ticket.

Yes Old Shooter, but at the same time there are many others near to our age who won the same ovarian lottery.. they are male, white and educated and squandered those advantages, haven't amounted to a hill-of-poop and are the ones we read about that are hard pressed to pay for a $400 emergency bill... so it seems that there is much more to it than the ovarian lottery.

 

[W2R]

This is a self indulgent piece that manages to reference all the social buzzwords of sexism, equality, student loans and give people a "pass" for not generating any wealth because they have NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for their financial success. They are purely a victim of their circumstances. RUbbish. Wrap a fish in this article. Youre welcome

+1000 The author can't seem to bend her mind around the fact that many (or perhaps more accurately, most) people encounter some pretty serious unplanned obstacles that some others don't have to overcome at all, on their way to FIRE. Duh?

Dissolving in self pity instead of tackling these obstacles is not a productive course of action. I could have told her that and so could many of us.

 

[athena53]

Yes Old Shooter, but at the same time there are many others near to our age who won the same ovarian lottery.. they are male, white and educated and squandered those advantages, haven't amounted to a hill-of-poop and are the ones we read about that are hard pressed to pay for a $400 emergency bill... so it seems that there is much more to it than the ovarian lottery.

Yep. My Ex was one of them. I'm also thinking of some other white male friends who are very smart, well-educated and had every advantage but they can't hold down jobs for long because few employers recognize their brilliance.

I'd put my allocation at 70% hard work and good decisions 30% luck. Like the writer, two of my best breaks were big profits on my primary home in a hot market. Both sales, however, required foregoing many "wants" because home ownership in that area (NNJ) was so expensive. I DID have an abusive partner. I divorced him. I had only one child. I chose a decent career with a major barrier to entry (actuarial exams, which took me 8 years to get through while working FT and studying).

I can see plenty of times where I could have made decisions that would have left me worse off right now- staying out of the workforce after DS was born, squandering a chunk of my share of the marital home equity on a fancy car after the divorce instead of making a down payment on another house, getting a shiny new car every year... but I didn't.

Definitely not 80% luck.

 

[OldShooter]

... so it seems that there is much more to it than the ovarian lottery.

Agreed, but a lot of that "much more" is also due to luck. For example, a former business partner called me last night to catch up. He's 83YO and one of his hobbies has always been wasting small amounts of money at the Indian casinos. (He's a multimillionaire.) In January (pre COVID) he was leaving a casino and a guy blew through a stop light and t-boned him. Totaled both cars, left partner with a damaged shoulder and three breaks in his pelvis. Doc came into his room and said "I'm not even going to talk to you about your pelvis. X-rays show us a baseball-sized aortic aneurysm that has to be dealt with immediately." IOW, getting hit saved my partner's life. Luck. I have posted before that my very successful high-tech career began because I had a habit of playing gomoku with a Taiwanese friend in the back row of our graduate school classes.

But the ovarian lottery is the launch. The garbage picker in Mumbai, no matter how smart he is and how hard he works, will never be the president of General Motors.

 

[pb4uski]

^^^ I guess then I stand corrected. Hard work and good decisions have nothing to do with financial success.... it's all just dumb luck. Learn something new every day.

 

[OldShooter]

^^^ I guess then I stand corrected. Hard work and good decisions have nothing to do with financial success.... it's all just dumb luck. Learn something new every day.

Did somebody say that?

 

[pb4uski]

Yes... sounds to me like you did!

Agreed, but a lot of that "much more" is also due to luck. ... Luck. I have posted before that my very successful high-tech career began because I had a habit of playing gomoku with a Taiwanese friend in the back row of our graduate school classes.

But the ovarian lottery is the launch. ...

 

[rodi]

The article is clickbait.

 

[OldShooter]

Yes... sounds to me like you did!

I don't know. I can't control what you conclude from what you read, but I think the phrase "a lot of that" has quite a different meaning than "all of that."

I'm sure at least some of your career opportunities began because you were in the right place at the right time. Certainly many of mine did. That doesn't imply at all that skill, hard work, etc. were not also required to succeed once once the opportunities was presented. But it was the opportunities that let us put those characteristics to work.

 

[Aerides]

are we really doing the I was Lucky vs. I Worked Hard thing again?

 

[tulak]

The article is clickbait.

Right? And I fell for it!

 

[CSdot]

The writer of the article subscribes to the "You didn't build that" philosophy of life.

 

[pb4uski]

I don't know. I can't control what you conclude from what you read, but I think the phrase "a lot of that" has quite a different meaning than "all of that."

I'm sure at least some of your career opportunities began because you were in the right place at the right time. Certainly many of mine did. That doesn't imply at all that skill, hard work, etc. were not also required to succeed once once the opportunities was presented. But it was the opportunities that let us put those characteristics to work.

Yes, but what we don't know is that others may have had similar opportunities of right place/right time and squandered them.

My right place/right time was being chief accountant when a significant industry accounting issue arose in the same year that our CEO was president of an influential industry group. The CEO tagged me to lead our company's efforts on the issue and to also get involved in the overall industry response by participating on an industry task force. That industry task force work led to other appointments with some AICPA task forces and committees where I met a man who would years later become my boss when I decided to leave the company.

 

[Music Lover]

That's what people are being taught these days...all the wealth was stolen generations ago and no one who has any today deserves it. I'd comment further but would probably be banned.

 

[RetireBy90]

As long as we as a country keep blaming someone else or society or whatever this will continue. Most people have the opportunity to save $400 for emergencies even if it is only $5 a week, in 20 weeks you are there. If you truly can't manage that much, you are truly unique.
Sorry for being so blunt, but we hear a message so much now about how you can never excel because of someone else. So many listen to that and believe it. Sad

 

[braumeister]

Thanks for the interesting discussion.