Apple vs Windows PC

[Rustic23]

Apple - Advantage, IOS is for Apple and Mac/IDevices are made to run the IOS. Therefore they do not have the same integration problems that Windows sometimes does. Still, when Apple upgrades their IOS things don't always go smoothly.

Windows - Has to run on multiple manufacturers machine, with accessiories from many different vendors. It works most of the time, however, same as Apple, new OS may not work with old equipment.

Windows has about 92% of the market. Heck, it is estimated XP still has a 25% market share. Apple has about 5%. That's why, historically, new software was developed for Windows. In the business market, I believe, MS is even stronger. That's why I recommend students learn Windows. Yes MAC is sexy, and fun, but Windows is the computer of business. Exception is the manipulation of images. While this is not my area, I have always heard Apple dominates this arena.

Having said this, I use Apple for Iphone, and Ipad. I have used Android and it was OK, but my next phone will most likely be another Apple, and the Dell Venue Windows tablet is almost unusable. Nice small computer, but not a great tablet.

My next desktop/laptop will be Windows. Cheaper, I don't have to learn a new system, I am reasonably guaranteed it will work with my printers and stuff and no learning curve for DW. I have had a computer since 1979, I have had one virus. Most of that time I didn't even run anti-virus software, and have never run any I paid for. i.e. Avast, Avg, Windows Defender. So I am not really concerned with viruses.

 

[Chuckanut]

- Better durability - my previous "top of the line" Windows machines would turn obsolete by year 3 in terms of performance. My 2008 iMac still runs as well as the day I bought it, even in light of three OS upgrades.
- Better security.

Cons:
- Higher up front cost for hardware. This is offset by the fact that my Apple computers have outlasted every Windows machine. Six years strong and not slowing on the $2k iMac.

+1

My first iMac (2007 dual core Intel processor) is still running strong though it no longer will run the latest OS. But, it works well for the vast majority of tasks, and I have not seen the slowing down effect that I witnessed with my Windows computers as they aged. It boots just as fast as ever, and runs just as fast as ever, though obviously slower than more modern computers.

My 2008 MacBook runs the current OS, and is supposed to be able to run the new one due out later this year. Again, it runs just about as fast as ever, but slower than a modern computer.

Despite the above, I still wonder if most people are not better off with a tablet or a Chromebook for most day-to-day activities.

 

[explanade]

I grew up working on Windows, and in my 20s owned a Gateway desktop and then a Gateway Laptop. I made the move to Apple back in 2005 and won't ever look back. My wife comes from an Apple family.

Pros:
- Seamless integration across devices with little to no effort: iPhones, iPads, AppleTV, Airport, Time Machine.
- Better software and operating systems (IMO)
- Better durability - my previous "top of the line" Windows machines would turn obsolete by year 3 in terms of performance. My 2008 iMac still runs as well as the day I bought it, even in light of three OS upgrades.
- Better security.

Cons:
- Higher up front cost for hardware. This is offset by the fact that my Apple computers have outlasted every Windows machine. Six years strong and not slowing on the $2k iMac.
- Lack of good financial management software. I mitigate this by using Personal Capital for expense and investment tracking as well as TurboTax online for taxes.
- Integration with work files (gov't uses Windows/Office which does not seamlessly integrate with Numbers, etc.). You can buy Office for Mac, but I haven't sprung for it since the early days when I had a student discount.

There are probably others, but Apple seems to be "playing nicer" with everyone else these days. I can't see a reason why I would ever go back to Windows at home.

I suspect DW and I will not "re-up" our laptop now that she's done with her MBA. Two iPads and a desktop seems the way to go!

Continuity with the upcoming Yosemite and iOS 8 devices will be interesting. You can take calls on your Macs and as you leave, the calls are suppose to be transferred to your iPhone.


I'm wary of uploading data so I use Turbo Tax for Mac, free from Vanguard for some members but I go for the Premier version which is $10.

Personal Capital seems to look over your data, tries to sell you financial planning services? I have the iPad app. but haven't loaded any data on it for that reason.

 

[target2019]

I have the definitive answer.

Have been taking Apples and PCs apart for over 25 years. I've cleaned 100's of these systems off for various reasons. I've gone into battle for macs on the corporate front. I've made a living from servicing small business systems, both Mac and PC. In our home we are constantly turning over notebooks, desktops, and tablets. I do not have a dog in this fight...

What is your need? Answer the question, set a budget, ask around about the best applications, and see what fits.

 

[NanoSour]

After reading thru the thread, it's clear that Mac is the way to go.

Now I may be biased as I/we made the switch in Jan 2005. The household now has 3 iMacs, 1 Macbook, 3 iPad, 2 iPhones, 2 Apple TVs, and an Airport Express as the router for all these devices. These things just work and they last. My 2007 White Macbook is still running like new. It only has an 80GB HD, but I only use about 30 GB. Don't use it to store files, just to have mobile internet and email access. Also, I reboot this macbook about every 90 days! Try that with a PC laptop. My Sony VAIO crashed daily for any number of reasons, and I had to do a fresh WinXP install every 6 months. Finally gave that problem to a nephew. Good riddens.

One of the top benefits of leaving the corporate world for ER, is no more PCs in my life. Nuf said.

 

[GrayHare]

For less teeth gnashing over time, let your software needs drive your hardware choices. Make a list of the programs you want to use then choose the hardware platform that runs the most of them the best.

 

[Midpack]

You are comparing Apples to Oranges... The thing with Macs is they start with a pretty high base machine...

For example:

• The processor in the Mac you listed is the Core i7 wheile the Dell is the Celeron. The Mac is significantly faster.
• The Mac is 16gb memory vs the Dell having 4gb
• the Mac has a 265gb Flash drive vs a 512gb drive for the Dell (flash drive much faster and more expensive)
• The Mac has a much better screen

If you go to the dell site and pick any dell 15 laptop and upgrade all the specs to similar to the Mac, it will come in slightly (10%?) less than the Mac. Comparing those two laptops is like comparing a Pinto to a BMW, they will both get you to the corner store, but if you are going to go often and a long way, you will be happier with the BMW (though it will cost more).

I currently lead tech teams and have done that for 25 years and have always used a PC. At home I have Mac laptops.

When people ask me my recommendations, I tell them to get a Mac because they just work. If you are someone that likes tinkering with internal settings you have a lot more to tinker with on the PC.

Apple devices including Macs may well be worth the premium, but I think it's misleading to suggest the premium is only 10%, that's certainly not what I found when I actually dug into the nuts and bolts (neither Apple or Dell show specs in detail, you have to dig some).

I was all set to buy an iMac last year even knowing there was some premium. Below is an update to the pre-purchase comparison I did last year, the Dell shown has several significant components that are superior (in green). I've also left off some major (chipset) and minor features the Dell offers that the iMac does not - the Apple premium was 60%! It was 100%+ in my case because I caught a Dell sale and already had a monitor.

If you can provide an actual 'apples to apples' comparison showing only a 10% premium, I'd like to see it.

 

[nash031]

Personal Capital seems to look over your data, tries to sell you financial planning services? I have the iPad app. but haven't loaded any data on it for that reason.

Personal Capital aligns you with a financial advisor who will attempt to contact you periodically and get you to sign on for his services. In the nine months I've been using it, I think I have received four phone calls and one email from my "guy." The one time I spoke with him, I told him I was very comfortable handling my own financials and did not desire profressional assistance. It's not been hard to ignore, and I find the App very useful, so much so that I chose it over Mint after playing with both.

 

[nash031]

Apple devices including Macs may well be worth the premium, but I think it's misleading to suggest the premium is only 10%, that's certainly not what I found when I actually dug into the nuts and bolts (neither Apple or Dell show specs in detail, you have to dig some).

I was all set to buy an iMac last year even knowing there was some premium. Below is an update to the pre-purchase comparison I did last year, the Dell shown has several significant components that are superior (in green). I've also left off some major (chipset) and minor features the Dell offers that the iMac does not - the Apple premium was 60%! It was 100%+ in my case because I caught a Dell sale and already had a monitor.

If you can provide an actual 'apples to apples' comparison showing only a 10% premium, I'd like to see it.

Nicely done. I would've expected the Mac to be more than 60% of the cost of the Dell, honestly. The key for me is that my Mac desktop and my two Macbooks have all lasted 100%+ longer than their equivalent Windows machines. All were high-end products at the time:

Gateway PC (3 years) vs. iMac (6 years and counting)
Dell Laptop (2 years) vs. MacBook Pro (4years) and Macbook (4 years and counting)

In each case with the Windows machines, they bogged down and were no longer servicable machines despite regular software maintenance. As software updated, the machines became unbearably slow. Meanwhile, I've upgraded the OS on my iMac three times, and it still runs the same as the day I bought it.

Not that they're an investment, per se, but a dollar spent on the Macs goes farther than a dollar spent on the Windows machines, IMO.

 

[explanade]

You would definitely see an improvement on that 6-year old iMac, esp. with the Fusion drive.

But there are also rumors of an iMac with Retina display, perhaps to be announced next week (10/16) where they're definitely expected to announce new iPads.

 

[photoguy]

If you can provide an actual 'apples to apples' comparison showing only a 10% premium, I'd like to see it.

I've done this comparison a few times when I've gone to buy my mac (mac pro or high end laptop). It's difficult to do because there are always differences between the machines and in form factors and so the two devices can never be made exactly the same.

Here's an example for a high end laptop i7, 16gb, 512ssd, weight < 5lbs, retina screen. The Dell ($2350) is slightly cheaper than apple retail ($2500) but more than if you use various apple discounts ($2000 for developer).

I suspect that for lower end macs, the cost differential swings to PCs.

 

[Midpack]

Nicely done. I would've expected the Mac to be more than 60% of the cost of the Dell, honestly. The key for me is that my Mac desktop and my two Macbooks have all lasted 100%+ longer than their equivalent Windows machines. All were high-end products at the time:

Gateway PC (3 years) vs. iMac (6 years and counting)
Dell Laptop (2 years) vs. MacBook Pro (4years) and Macbook (4 years and counting)

In each case with the Windows machines, they bogged down and were no longer servicable machines despite regular software maintenance. As software updated, the machines became unbearably slow. Meanwhile, I've upgraded the OS on my iMac three times, and it still runs the same as the day I bought it.

Not that they're an investment, per se, but a dollar spent on the Macs goes farther than a dollar spent on the Windows machines, IMO.

[-]Not sure how I got myself into this role[/-] While I haven't come here to defend PC's at all...

I've used desktop and laptop PCs at home and at work for over 30 years (since IBM was the leading provider), and I've never had one die or go obsolete in 3 years. Mine have all lasted at least 5 years or more, and were not replaced because they 'failed' - they became obsolete due to processor speed/memory that couldn't handle newer software, or a HD that was about to fail in one instance.

I am totally smitten with our iPads (and iPods before that) and again, I think Apple devices may well be worth their premiums, not because the hardware is better, but more because the software/device eco-system is so well developed and the hardware components are good quality. BUT Apple does not have any unique hardware components, you can get a PC with any CPU, chipset, power supply, HD, RAM, GPU, etc. you'll find in an iMac.

Two other points:
1) There are definitely some brands of PC that I'd never consider. I've had good luck with Dell and there are other decent brands, but some are awful. You avoid that issue buying an iMac.
2) I'd add that while privacy is increasingly an issue on all ecosystems, I am convinced Apple is less intrusive and has a better framework for protecting users personal info than Microsoft or Google - another plus for Apple. Win 8.x is pretty "demanding" and Google, especially Android, has become far too intrusive. Apple makes money selling hardware (and the software for it), Google makes money selling targeted ads which depends on knowing as much as possible about it's users. And Microsoft has it's claws out like never before based on my Win 8.x experience - it took quite an effort to avoid sharing a lot of info they "expected."

 

[braumeister]

I'm basically an Apple guy, since I bought my first one (Apple II+) in 1980 and have bought innumerable others over the years (currently use a MacBook Pro).

I w*rked for a developer of custom Mac software for a number of years, and did both project management and phone tech support for Fortune 100 companies.

Then I worked as an independent consultant on Windows software for a number of years. A different paradigm, but not really all that different.

Finally, in my last w*rking incarnation before final retirement, I did UNIX stuff for another custom developer. That seemed ridiculously transparent compared to the others, and I found it a snap.

When Steve Jobs founded NEXT, it was closer to UNIX than anything else, and he brought that back with him when he rejoined Apple. So the current Mac OS X is similar enough that it's easy for a user to hack into it and modify things as desired (but harder to hack from the outside than Windows is).

After nearly 35 years with Apple products at home, I find the hardware to be superb, the software easy (for me) to understand, and the support (including at the local Apple store) simply outstanding. Those are all attributes that I have never found with Windows hardware/software.

IMHO, it really just boils down to what you're personally comfortable with.

 

[Greg V]

I've used Macs since the 80s. though the office always had PCs and Windows. I like Apple's tight integration of desktop and mobile devices. Also, if you need to use Windows programs, you can just use your iMac since it will run both operating systems., booting up Windows through Bootcamp or with a Virtual machine via Parallels, etc.

Recently I gave my 2011 vintage iMac a new lease on life by having the original, rotational, drive replaced by a SSD. The speed increase for any task that requires accessing the drive is remarkable.

 

[target2019]

I know it's early in the day, but I'm popping some corn...

Going for Goobers.
Want any?

 

[Lsbcal]

... And Microsoft has it's claws out like never before based on my Win 8.x experience - it took quite an effort to avoid sharing a lot of info they "expected."

Could you elaborate on this? Is it the operating system you are referring to or the apps using it?

I have no experience with Win 8.x but will probably wind up buying a Win 8.x laptop as a present. Win 7 seemed OK on both a desktop and laptop. No social connection intrusiveness that I recall.

From my experience with the Nexus 7 and Nexus 5 phone I'd agree that a lot of the app stuff is intrusive trying to do a lot of social stuff my knowing the user. But the Chrome OS is not a problem. I have no idea if the Iphone and Ipad apps are any better.

 

[Midpack]

Could you elaborate on this? Is it the operating system you are referring to or the apps using it?

I have no experience with Win 8.x but will probably wind up buying a Win 8.x laptop as a present. Win 7 seemed OK on both a desktop and laptop. No social connection intrusiveness that I recall.

I don't remember every detail, but I realized almost immediately that I'd better be on my toes when I first set it up. When you start up a new PC with Win 8.x for the first time, you're required to register for an account with Microsoft. And then at every turn after that as it sets itself up, it seems to ask for more personal information - and register your email addresses and other accounts whether you want to or not. I was able to avoid most if it, but they go to some lengths to make it difficult and/or make it seem as though the personal info is "required." It also seemed all the various live file apps and Office try to make users think OneDrive (the Microsoft cloud) is the default file save location. You can undo most if not all of it, but they don't make how obvious. Personal information has become too valuable/irresistible to Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, Amazon, Facebook and others IMO.

 

[nash031]

You would definitely see an improvement on that 6-year old iMac, esp. with the Fusion drive.

But there are also rumors of an iMac with Retina display, perhaps to be announced next week (10/16) where they're definitely expected to announce new iPads.

No doubt, but I don't have need for a new desktop yet!

 

[aja8888]

Apple Vs MS.....never ends..both are pretty good. I'll have Karmel Korn if you have it!

My "home built" desktop with the AMD dual core processor, 4 GB RAM, etc has been running daily since 2007 (Raid setup). The only time it was off was during power failures or when we moved. It still runs XP very smoothly. I lost the high end sound card so I plugged the speakers into the headphone slot. One 10,000 RPM raid drive failed (expensive Western Digital) but it had a 5 year warranty.

Oh, every new year (since I have no computer work at that time), I pull the side cover off and vacuum out the dust and dead bugs.

This has been my main consulting "report writing" and general internet machine and it has out lived about 4 printers, a sound card, one HDD, and a keyboard. I have the same Logitech mouse I bought about 10 years ago (its got crust on it).

Oh, computer don't get viruses, computer operators' give them viruses.

 

[donheff]

I am in Midpack's camp to a degree. I don't think PCs are better than Macs, just the opposite. But I am comfortable with PCs and I can put them together cheaper than a Mac. Also, like Midpack, I have no problem getting a long life out of a PC (desktop, laptops are another matter) although I help others (in my volunteer gig) dig out of messed up PCs frequently. I also have and like both iPads and iPhones. My biggest complaint with them is iTunes and an the Apple Store. What a PITA. I find it to be a major hassle just to clear some books, photos, or music I don't like off my iOS devices. Yeah, I know people who master the Mac do it with ease but I feel like I have to memorize some arcane process rather than intuitively find and delete the files.

The biggest problem for me is I just don't feel at home on a Mac. I am used to dealing directly with the PC's hierarchical file system, tweaking settings and the like. Macs intentionally hide all that stuff. It is a positive feature for most - just not me. I recognize that the underlying Unix OS is available to me on the Mac but I don't want to go through the learning curve to figure it out. (Note: I have installed and run Linux servers for my family website for years but I never felt as comfortable with them as the PC so mastering the Mac innards would still be a learning curve).

For now I will stay with the PC myself and keep fixing them for old folks. But I often recommend Macs for people who don't have a clue about why things go wrong all the time with their PCs.

 

[gozer]

Last year, while I was still working, one of our bigger security concerns were web based attacks. (Phishing, script enabled attacks, social network exploits, water hole attacks, etc) Since the OS you run is irrelevant to most of these types of attacks, we discovered that our clients who were using Macs were actually a bigger security problem for us. Many of these users had bought into the, "I have a Mac so I don't need to run any protection suite." line of thinking. This made them more susceptible to these web based attacks. 40% of our compromised clients used Macs, but only 5% of our clients were Mac users.

Other types of issues like Malware, are far more common on a PC because people that create these things are smart and want the biggest bang for their time and effort. But the biggest threat we have now is the browser, not the OS. And since browsers must support various standards, they have all been susceptible. Even TOR has been hacked.

Usually the carbon based button pusher is the weak link in the security chain. I would argue that the most secure system is the one you are most familiar with and can therefore best secure it.

 

[gozer]

I'm basically an Apple guy, since I bought my first one (Apple II+) in 1980 and have bought innumerable others over the years (currently use a MacBook Pro).

My brother still has my old Apple II+. I loved that machine. I probably got more mileage out of it than any other computer I have ever owned.

 

[DallasGuy]

I have always used a Windows PC and would never consider switching to Apple. I don't feel like going through the learning curve with Apple. I tried helping a friend with something simple on his Apple laptop recently. It was very frustrating for me...didn't seem very intuitive. Having said that, it's probably because I had never used one before. The other reason I wouldn't make the switch is because Apple products cost more than I'm willing to spend.

 

[kcowan]

I have 5 PCs. My laptop is HP Win7. Also 2xXP and 2xVista. All do what I expect of them.

I get good value out of my Win7 laptop. The others are dedicated to special purposes. Purchased used in 2009 for $300. Part of a giveaway that the Telco provided with their new cable service and purchased new from the subscriber. I am impressed with Win7.

Not so impressed with my Samsung Android phone. Will probably upgrade to an iPhone 4S when the prices get down far enough. Prepaid plan.

 

[nash031]

Other types of issues like Malware, are far more common on a PC because people that create these things are smart and want the biggest bang for their time and effort. But the biggest threat we have now is the browser, not the OS. And since browsers must support various standards, they have all been susceptible. Even TOR has been hacked.

Usually the carbon based button pusher is the weak link in the security chain. I would argue that the most secure system is the one you are most familiar with and can therefore best secure it.

All of this is definitely true. As a user, I prevent most malware. That said, I also know that hackers and the like want bang for the buck, so it's always made sense to me to swim upstream in that regard.