Auto Insurance Usage Based Coverage

[jazz4cash]

Not my first thread on this topic. I’ve used the OBD based logging devices in the past and my experience was the up front discount for participating is as good or better than any subsequent discount resulting from driver behavior. I think the evaluation period is unreasonably long. I just switched to The Hartford AARP insurance and they use a phone based app to track driver behavior. It seems FAR more intrusive. I don’t think the OBD based devices had any GPS and definitely could not detect phone usage while driving. I think I’ll pass this time since I’m already saving 30% over my renewal with Nationwide. We hardly drive anywhere these days. Thoughts or experience with Usage Based Ratings including pay per mile?

 

[njhowie]

I agree - would never allow my insurer to do it, even for some additional discount. I believe they (Amica, our insurer) did offer at some point in the past. It is intrusive, Big Brother-ish - how much more of our privacy rights will be trampled on? Since the beginning of the year, even without such device, Amica has sent us 3 refund checks for the (assumed) lower level of driving.

This is also one reason that we won't be getting Teslas - they are monitoring everything that you do, and everywhere you go. At what point will Tesla be selling that data to insurers or police? It will certainly be happening in the future.

 

[ziggy29]

I know this is a place to potentially save a fair bit of money, as I usually drive only 5-6,000 miles a year. And while I consider myself a pretty safe driver and I rarely speed (more than 5 MPH or so), I still don't like letting insurance companies essentially data-dump the contents of my car's onboard computer. I'll pick my cheapskate battles elsewhere.

 

[jazz4cash]

I’m wondering how the phone based systems work when DW and I are riding together or a passenger in some other vehicle. The last time we participated in the OBD device program the evaluation was supposed to last 6 mos but I guess we were do boring they ended it after 3 mos.

I like the suggestion to pinch pennies elsewhere.

 

[Car-Guy]

It is intrusive, Big Brother-ish - how much more of our privacy rights will be trampled on?

+ A lot!

This is also one reason that we won't be getting Teslas - they are monitoring everything that you do, and everywhere you go. At what point will Tesla be selling that data to insurers or police? It will certainly be happening in the future.

I'll add this to my list of why I don't want a Tesla... Like if it wasn't long enough already.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

It probably won't be too long before they will know the information whether you want them to know or not. A couple of ideas I could see happening...

1) You download the "Name Any Insurance Company" application and skip past the 423 permissions, one of which is GPS data. Boom...you have your phone w/ location enabled? They know how you drive.

2) License plate readers. These are already widely used...even in our very conservative "big brother ain't watchin' me!" state. They have stationary units that track cars...they know when you drive by and the data points are saved to a database. Much of this information is already widely available to commercial entities and adding a radar/aggressive driving detection system to these are probably already in the works.

3) On board telematic systems. Most new cars have these already installed and like the phone app, the license agreement is on page 523 of the owner's manual and 14 pages long. A clause buried very, very deep...you agree to allow said car manufacturer to sell the information as they deem fit and the insurance companies would probably pay a decent amount of money for this.

4) No way to opt out. This is probably the way of the future. I think eventually most companies will either require access to your vehicle's telematics systems or an OBD system of sorts. Otherwise, they won't provide coverage. It will be a take it or leave it proposition.

It might be a number of years, but one or more of these WILL happen and we won't really have a choice if you want to have auto insurance.

 

[Car-Guy]

^^^^^^

Makes me feel kinda glad that I'm as old as I am!

 

[ziggy29]

It might be a number of years, but one or more of these WILL happen and we won't really have a choice if you want to have auto insurance.

I agree. But until we are there...

 

[PatrickA5]

I started up with State Farms "Drive Safe and Save" back in February. After the first 6mth period was up I saved $100 (24%) on one car and $104 (18%) on the other car. So, if those keep up we'll save about $400 per year or around 20%. Not bad for not driving any differently than we normally do. Mileage is the biggest determining factor, followed by speeding, braking, etc. Supposedly, cell phone usage doesn't change the discount.

We're both very boring, safe drivers. The "big brother" thing doesn't bother me, however, if I was someone that did stupid stuff (texting while driving), I wouldn't use one of these since it's possible it could come back to bite you in an accident.

 

[PatrickA5]

I’m wondering how the phone based systems work when DW and I are riding together or a passenger in some other vehicle. The last time we participated in the OBD device program the evaluation was supposed to last 6 mos but I guess we were do boring they ended it after 3 mos.

I like the suggestion to pinch pennies elsewhere.

From what I understand, the transponder thingy picks up the first cell phone that enters the vehicle, so for example, if my wife is driving I make sure I enter the car (with my cell phone) after she does - that way I can use my phone while she's driving without it showing up.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I agree. But until we are there...

True. Back to the original discussion...

I am not sure who the ad is for, but the idea of mileage based coverage is interesting. The ad I saw is a fella that goes out to get some food at a bakery and comes back home (lives on an island, maybe?). He looks at his phone and drove 1.1 miles at an insurance cost of "X cents" I would actually be in favor of this since we drive so little, anyway. Nonetheless...I am not too comfortable with the invasiveness so not keen on signing up. Not only that, I have heard my entire life that most accidents happen within a couple of miles of your home. I am not sure if that's true, but the only accidents I have ever had were indeed less than a mile from my house.

 

[jazz4cash]

I started up with State Farms "Drive Safe and Save" back in February. After the first 6mth period was up I saved $100 (24%) on one car and $104 (18%) on the other car. So, if those keep up we'll save about $400 per year or around 20%. Not bad for not driving any differently than we normally do. Mileage is the biggest determining factor, followed by speeding, braking, etc. Supposedly, cell phone usage doesn't change the discount.

We're both very boring, safe drivers. The "big brother" thing doesn't bother me, however, if I was someone that did stupid stuff (texting while driving), I wouldn't use one of these since it's possible it could come back to bite you in an accident.

Does State Farm monitor driving with a dedicated device or do they use your cellphone?

 

[jazz4cash]

From what I understand, the transponder thingy picks up the first cell phone that enters the vehicle, so for example, if my wife is driving I make sure I enter the car (with my cell phone) after she does - that way I can use my phone while she's driving without it showing up.

Having to manage who enters the car first is ‘krazy’. I think some systems now only use your cellphone....no transponder. I’m curious to know how that works but so far haven’t found much detail.

 

[Sunset]

It probably won't be too long before they will know the information whether you want them to know or not. A couple of ideas I could see happening...

1) You download the "Name Any Insurance Company" application and skip past the 423 permissions, one of which is GPS data. Boom...you have your phone w/ location enabled? They know how you drive.

2) License plate readers. These are already widely used...even in our very conservative "big brother ain't watchin' me!" state. They have stationary units that track cars...they know when you drive by and the data points are saved to a database. Much of this information is already widely available to commercial entities and adding a radar/aggressive driving detection system to these are probably already in the works.

3) On board telematic systems. Most new cars have these already installed and like the phone app, the license agreement is on page 523 of the owner's manual and 14 pages long. A clause buried very, very deep...you agree to allow said car manufacturer to sell the information as they deem fit and the insurance companies would probably pay a decent amount of money for this.

4) No way to opt out. This is probably the way of the future. I think eventually most companies will either require access to your vehicle's telematics systems or an OBD system of sorts. Otherwise, they won't provide coverage. It will be a take it or leave it proposition.

It might be a number of years, but one or more of these WILL happen and we won't really have a choice if you want to have auto insurance.

There are also sniffers placed along the highways, and they detect your auto as you drive by at 80 mph, licence plate does not matter. It identifies the auto not the driver.
I know as I interviewed for a company doing this years ago. Possibly Google uses this to show traffic flow speed on major roads, which is handy.

 

[Sunset]

We use one of those dongles for Allstate, but covid has shown how fake it really is.
Since we drove 1/3 to 1/4 of the miles last year than normal, our rates still remained the same with the same discount.

They cannot tell I'm out of the country, they just complain via email that the dongle is not sending data anymore and ask me to plug it back in. Really I'm just out of cell reception.

 

[jazz4cash]

I spoke with someone from The Hartford today and got more details on how their TrueLane app works. It is based on speed so it "detects" when you are traveling in a car but they ask you to use airplane mode when flying even though the app will probably figure it out. IF you are a passenger they ask you to go in after the fact and report the trip was passenger miles. Same for non-driver spouse. I didn't ask about GPS or using the phone while driving but I assume it logs that activity along with speed, time of day, and accel/decel. If your phone falls off the seat it'll probably think you crashed.

Edit: oh and the discount for participation in the app is 9% up front plus potential additional discount based on driving behavior.

 

[rodi]

As someone with 3 cars and 4 drivers in the household this seems like waaaay to much work to not be penalized somehow by forgetting to mark who was a passenger, who was a driver, who was driving which car...

 

[travelover]

.......... It is based on speed so it "detects" when you are traveling in a car but they ask you to use airplane mode when flying even though the app will probably figure it out...........

Mr. Jazz4cash, you were recorded going 550 MPH in a 30 MPH zone.

 

[Sunset]

Mr. Jazz4cash, you were recorded going 550 MPH in a 30 MPH zone.

AllState considers it bad to go over 80 mph. On some State highways, that is hard not to do. For those trips, I pull the device so I don't get penalized for keeping up with the traffic flow.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

AllState considers it bad to go over 80 mph. On some State highways, that is hard not to do. For those trips, I pull the device so I don't get penalized for keeping up with the traffic flow.

That's OK...some of us consider Allstate to be bad insurers.

 

[PatrickA5]

Does State Farm monitor driving with a dedicated device or do they use your cellphone?

Both. There's a transponder that you put somewhere in your car and it connects via bluetooth to an app on your cellphone. You can look at your trips on your cellphone and it show how well you did driving and exactly where (on a map) you might have had an "event". It grades your last two weeks worth of trips. We're usually around 95% - but we're safe and slow drivers. DW tends to have "braking" events since she tends to slam on the brakes at yellow lights.

So far, I've been very pleased with the apps and the savings. It's pretty easy. All you have to remember is to bring your cellphone along - which we always do anyway.

Again, this is NOT for people that have a problem with "big brother" knowing where you're driving. I don't really care.

 

[jazz4cash]

As someone with 3 cars and 4 drivers in the household this seems like waaaay to much work to not be penalized somehow by forgetting to mark who was a passenger, who was a driver, who was driving which car...

Exactly. Reminds me of when we get a photo ticket and try to figure out who was driving. We're usually not 100% sure who was driving that vehicle at the time and location of the photo.

 

[Car-Guy]

AllState considers it bad to go over 80 mph. On some State highways, that is hard not to do..

I couldn't make it to town without getting run over... The nearest public road to me is a state hwy with a "posted" speed limit of 70mph... There is never much traffic and very few folks drive 70 or under... Seriously, 85+ is pretty normal until we get near the first little town 15 to 20 mile away....

 

[badatmath]

You folks know you can get a low mileage discount without those stupid devices, right? I have one. I think car services report the miles so they would probably know if you were lying, but I am not so it makes no difference.

 

[jazz4cash]

You folks know you can get a low mileage discount without those stupid devices, right? I have one. I think car services report the miles so they would probably know if you were lying, but I am not so it makes no difference.

When I asked State Farm for a low mileage discount, they informed me that I would have use thier plug in monitor for 3 months ( IIRC) to qualify, so it depends on the insurer. That was about 6 years ago! Not sure what you mean by car services.....Until recently I did all my on routine work so my car did not go into the shop for years at a time.