Automakers to invest $300B in electric vehicles

[gerntz]

Which fearmongers, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island or Fukushima?

What the Soviets did & what responsible governments do are rather different. No deaths have been attributed to 3MI. One death has been attributed to the Fukushima reactor meltdown though several hundred cancer death are expected in the future. Compared with many other energy production deaths, such as coal miners lost & black lung, even those few hundred are a small number.

So yes, using those names is fear mongering. Meanwhile, keep expecting wind to blow 365 days/yr & the sun to shine at night.

 

[ERD50]

If they cant figure out how to build them less than the financial disaster Vogtle is now, safety isnt going to matter. This boondoggle is what at $25 billion and rising? They basically have been regulated out of existence as far as new builds go. Just too expensive to build if they cant do better than what Vogtle is becoming. And Southerns coal gasification idea didnt seem to be so great either.

I agree that nuclear expansion in the US is an uphill battle, for many reasons. But it still has a great safety record, and that gets distorted out of proportion by some people.

I'f like to think that the new technologies for nuke will be competitive and passively safe, but I'm not too optimistic, at least not in the next 20 years. Maybe some will start to come online by then. Maybe.

-ERD50

 

[travelover]

.........So yes, using those names is fear mongering.....

I'm rubber and you're glue....

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Thank you for providing good examples of being resistant to change. Its common for many people to want to cling to the "old way of doing things".

Every post screams "Get off my lawn".

 

[NW-Bound]

I just saw another article on Bloomberg pointing out that even if we get all the cars to run on electricity and get all those electrons free somehow, there's still a lot of petrochemicals that we use, and this use is increasing. And that people get fixated on EVs, and forget about the bigger picture.

No matter what we do, we are doomed.

I am glad I can still enjoy jet travel to go see places. In another generation or two, humankind will be huddling in tiny homes to stay warm, or living in holes in the ground to stay cool as appropriate.

There's no escape, despite some silly notion that we can escape from earth to go somewhere else. How much propellant is needed to bring a pick or shovel to Mars? While we will not have enough for mundane terrestrial needs?

 

[Chuckanut]

IIRC, coal plants pump more radiation into the atmosphere every year than nuclear plants to. It seems that coal contains minute amounts of radioactive stuff, and given the volume of coal burn, that amounts to a lot more radiotion than nukes.

OTOH, nuclear engery plants have been gloriously mishandled for decades - high costs with more overruns, every plant a custom design that needs to be debugged, etc. etc. etc. The French seem to do it better. So do the Swedes, who get 35% of their energy from nuclear plants. Or we could start to do what the Swiss do and burn our plastic refuse for energy instead of trying to recycle it by shipping it overseas where who-knows-what happens to it.

 

[Chuckanut]

I am glad I can still enjoy jet travel to go see places. In another generation or two, humankind will be huddling in tiny homes to stay warm, or living in holes in the ground to stay cool as appropriate.

Travel to other countries and cultures helps to prevent misunderstandings and conflict. War is probably the ultimate ecology destroyer. For example, it's hard for me to get angry at the Turks despite recent political conflicts between our countries ,because I've been there and the Turkish people are wonderful

 

[aja8888]

Or we could start to do what the Swiss do and burn our plastic refuse for energy instead of trying to recycle it by shipping it overseas where who-knows-what happens to it.

I don't think the Chinese are taking in our plastic scrap anymore. As a matter of fact, and detailed in another thread here somewhere, the Chinese are the ones at the top of the list who dump the most plastic waste into the ocean. The top 10 disposers this way are all Asian countries. We do a lot of plastic recycling (paper too), but still a lot gets buried in landfills or dumped in the sea.

 

[gerntz]

I'm rubber and you're glue....

US Navy currently operates over 150 nukes on ships & hasn't lost a life to them with 5700 years of operating time & counting. Scary thought, isn't it?

 

[gerntz]

Travel to other countries and cultures helps to prevent misunderstandings and conflict. War is probably the ultimate ecology destroyer. For example, it's hard for me to get angry at the Turks despite recent political conflicts between our countries ,because I've been there and the Turkish people are wonderful

Agree. That's how a Canadian just got sentenced to death in China. It's how Otto Warmbier magically wound up brain death in NK.

 

[gerntz]

As a matter of fact, and detailed in another thread here somewhere, the Chinese are the ones at the top of the list who dump the most plastic waste into the ocean.

I thought it me & my disposable plastic straws.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

I agree with Music Lover's disagreement.

So many posts are just empty ad hominem attacks on others. Where is the information, the data?

It's so easy to say others are afraid of change. I always hated that, it's really an ignorant thing to say. People are not afraid of change, they love it. They love positive change. See us all using the internet - oh no, we are all afraid of change, we actually write letters to each other and drop them in the mail box with copies to everyone!

There is plenty to like about EVs. That doesn't mean they are as great as some (without data) make them out to be.






Travelover's first post was obviously a dig at VW and their lying diesel-gate issue. What nail did it hit?




-ERD50

You agree with Music Lover because he agree's with you, and insult others as "ignorant" because they think differently than you. You are the only poster on this forum that insults others. [Mod Edit]

 

[aja8888]

I thought it me & my disposable plastic straws.

And my "enviro-geek" sister-in-law criticized me last time we were out for dinner for using a plastic straw too. She said it's "killing the fish" (while she sat there eating grilled salmon).

 

[ERD50]

You agree with Music Lover because he agree's with you, and insult others as "ignorant" because they think differently than you. You are the only poster on this forum that insults others. What a petty person you are.

Show me a post where I insulted anyone. I may use the term "ignorant" as descriptive and factual, not a judgement. There's no shame in admitting ignorance of something, no one knows everything. Many posters here, for example, are ignorant when it comes to electrical power and energy calculations. It's a fact, and they would admit it I'm sure. There are other areas where I am ignorant.

I agree/disagree with people based on objective subject matter. You throw out posts like this, and seldom provide any information or data.

How does any of that make me 'petty'? I like facts and data. So show me those posts where you claim I insulted others.

-ERD50

 

[Music Lover]

Thank you for providing good examples of being resistant to change. Its common for many people to want to cling to the "old way of doing things".

Every post screams "Get off my lawn".

I don't know a single person against change. Those who believe that EV are not quite ready for prime time aren't against change...they're just being realistic.

 

[Chuckanut]

Agree. That's how a Canadian just got sentenced to death in China. It's how Otto Warmbier magically wound up brain death in NK.

By all means one should stay home if one believes these two experiences are typical of travel.

Make sure you also stay away for outdoor concerts in Las Vegas, Western bars in So. California, most schools from Elementary to College, night clubs in Florida, local government offices, post offices, Navy yards, MacDonalds, high rise towers in major cities, the Pentagon, synagogues, and churches attended mostly by minorities. I'm sure there are other dangerous places, but that is all I can think of at the moment.

Back on topic, I suspect we will see a combination of ICE and EVs for some time to come. My issue is where the power comes from. Coal is a No-No. Solar and wind may be useful, but it's hard to see enough being built. IIRC, a former prominent Senator blocked windmills near his home because they polluted his views.

 

[Rianne]

Solar rooftop produced many times more deaths per power produced than nuclear:

Energy source Mortality rate (in deaths/PWh)
Solar – rooftop 440[6]
Nuclear (global) 90[6]
Nuclear (US) 0.1[6]

-ERD50

I'm not that concerned about death with nuclear energy. I'm more concerned about how many heads my new born relatives will have.

 

[aja8888]

By all means one should stay home if one believes these two experiences are typical of travel.

Make sure you also stay away for outdoor concerts in Las Vegas, Western bars in So. California, most schools from Elementary to College, night clubs in Florida, local government offices, post offices, Navy yards, MacDonalds, high rise towers in major cities, the Pentagon, synagogues, and churches attended mostly by minorities. I'm sure there are other dangerous places, but that is all I can think of at the moment.

Let me add to your list; Stay away from Texas/Mexico border towns and don't pick up hitchhikers anywhere within 100 miles north of the Texas/Mexico border. Throw in Arizona too. Calif border is OK.

 

[HFWR]

Ffs...

My take on spending the extra $800 for a hybrid: I paid a larger premium buying a Prius over, say, an ICE-powered Corolla, Sentra, or Elantra, than $800. Of course, about anything would be an improvement over the 15/20mpg performance of the pickup it replaced... I paid extra, partly for the reduction in fuel used and pollution generated, however small that reduction might have been, and partly for the techy/earthy/crunchy factor...

 

[ERD50]

.... My take on spending the extra $800 for a hybrid: .... I paid extra, partly for the reduction in fuel used and pollution generated, however small that reduction might have been, and partly for the techy/earthy/crunchy factor...

And I may buy a hybrid for those exact reasons. Though a part of me thinks that with my low miles, it may be an environmental negative - the fuel savings positives maybe won't outweigh the environmental cost of the battery. But I am interested in the tech.

But those are separate from the straight financial calculation.

-ERD50

 

[gerntz]

By all means one should stay home if one believes these two experiences are typical of travel.

Make sure you also stay away for outdoor concerts in Las Vegas, Western bars in So. California, most schools from Elementary to College, night clubs in Florida, local government offices, post offices, Navy yards, MacDonalds, high rise towers in major cities, the Pentagon, synagogues, and churches attended mostly by minorities. I'm sure there are other dangerous places, but that is all I can think of at the moment.

I travel a lot. But I don't subscribe to:

"Travel to other countries and cultures helps to prevent misunderstandings and conflict. War is probably the ultimate ecology destroyer. For example, it's hard for me to get angry at the Turks despite recent political conflicts between our countries ,because I've been there and the Turkish people are wonderful"

How did your love of the Turkish people stop pastor Andrew Brunson from being detained there for two years? How that stop Enes Kanter from fearing for his life if he traveled to London to play basketball? How does that stop Turkey from attacking the Kurds? All for example. Let me know.

Net, I travel to enjoy/learn but am under no illusion I'm preventing misunderstandings by it.

I will stay our of China, NK, and Western bars though.

 

[Mulligan]

By all means one should stay home if one believes these two experiences are typical of travel.

Make sure you also stay away for outdoor concerts in Las Vegas, Western bars in So. California, most schools from Elementary to College, night clubs in Florida, local government offices, post offices, Navy yards, MacDonalds, high rise towers in major cities, the Pentagon, synagogues, and churches attended mostly by minorities. I'm sure there are other dangerous places, but that is all I can think of at the moment.

Back on topic, I suspect we will see a combination of ICE and EVs for some time to come. My issue is where the power comes from. Coal is a No-No. Solar and wind may be useful, but it's hard to see enough being built. IIRC, a former prominent Senator blocked windmills near his home because they polluted his views.

That sound of the ammunition being fired in Vegas woke me up from my sleep at MGM that night...I could see the drape blowing out the shooters window the next morning from my room as it faced Mandalay Bay. That was a sad tragedy for those people. You could just tell who was at the concert that morning by the looks in their faces. Horrible...But I have been back 3 times since though.

 

[gerntz]

Why would anyone buy a gasoline powered car that costs $60 to fill if they could charge it in 10 minutes (not overnight or in 2 hours) for less than $5?

Because there's not enough electricity to go around such that the power system shuts down on overload. I'd pay the $60.

 

[aja8888]

Originally Posted by Music Lover View Post
Why would anyone buy a gasoline powered car that costs $60 to fill if they could charge it in 10 minutes (not overnight or in 2 hours) for less than $5?

Because the gasoline powered car cost $25K (as an example) and the EV (Tesla) cost $60 - $100K. You'd have to drive a heap (or many heaps) of miles to make up the difference using fuel cost differential.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Because the gasoline powered car cost $25K (as an example) and the EV (Tesla) cost $60 - $100K. You'd have to drive a heap (or many heaps) of miles to make up the difference using fuel cost differential.

Mine was 49k - 10,450 rebate/credit = 38,550.