British pulling out of Iraq

[lets-retire]

. . . The Army also has accepted a larger number of recruits whose score on a standardized aptitude test is at the lower end of the acceptable range, and it has granted waivers to permit the enlistment of people with criminal records that otherwise would disqualify them. . .

That doesn't sound comforting.

This has been going on for some time a good friend of mine in high school was given a waiver for past criminal behavior. He stole a car. They are not talking about murderers adn rapist, they are talking about relatively minor crimes. You know the ones many people on here wish were off the books.

Didn't teh Army always accept the people on the low end of the of the acceptable scale. If they didn't would that portion be called "unacceptable"?

 

[JohnEyles]

... I get to watch the recruiters "working" the teenagers that look to be about the right age to sign up ...

Yes, I have a theory that military recruitment is basically child abuse. It is well-known
that young people, or at least young men, have no real internalization of the concept
of their own mortality until 25yo or so. Car insurance companies and car rental
companies. for example, are well aware of this. And the military is well aware of
it too. One documentary I saw said "older men can be taught to be soldiers, but
only younger men can be taught to love it". The military will say they need the
very young men because they are more physically fit, but that is BS. Physical
endurance does not decline significantly until well into the 30s (see Lance Armstrong).
I can hump a heavy backpack better now than at any time in my life (in my 50s).

We wring our hands about the child soldiers in the African hell-hole du jour,
but we're not that much better !

 

[samclem]

So perhaps a smart older person sitting in their living room, filled with reason and with a well padded bank account doesnt have the very best grasp on what an 18 year old kid with nothing to look forward to thinks when he's being influenced by a couple of experts.

Okay. But apparently, at least one "smart older person sitting in their living room, filled with reason and with a well padded bank account" figured he had a "grasp on what 18 year old kids(s)" think when he wrote:

I'm of the opinion that most of these kids, after getting the full pitch, think they'll be getting breakfast in bed every morning, served by a scantily clad Michelle Manhart.

Wow, free school, cheap loans, be able to buy that car they want, free housing, free medical care...and hey...that iraq thing isnt going to go on for a lot longer and they can go travel to lots of interesting places.

Pot--meet the kettle.

 

[dumpster56]

If we are going to be the worlds police we may need the draft again and this time everyone goes.

Things really look ugly around the world. You know the world is not far from a real all out armed conflict.

Kinda like what an older guy told me once Patterns of Extinction, the human race is making all the WRONG CHOICES.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Sorry Sam, I have no idea what your post means unless you thought I was speaking well of the 'benefits'.

Justin, may I borrow your "this is sarcasm" line, if I dont charge you any royalties on the "Ding! Ding! Ding!" thing?

 

[laurence]

I think this thread has shown very clearly that there is a split in American views. The lines have been drawn internally as well as externally. The Dixie Chicks picked up 5 Grammies mostly because of support for them and the 1st Amendment, but meanwhile the country music stations have banned them for life for being traitors. At my work most people still believe Nixon was a great President, there is about 33% on each side which will believe their view is always right. That's why I am more comfortable with the middle third. Those who admit they might be wrong are the wisest in my estimation.

By election 2008, our presence in Iraq will be tiny, if anything. The country will still be a mess, and there will be enough anectodal evidence for both sides to sleep confident knowing it is the other side's fault we failed there.

And just like nobody's ancestors owned slaves or were for segregation, 50 years from now, there won't be anyone willing to admit their parents were for the ultimately wrong side of this debate.

 

[Elderdude]

That's it! I'm eating "Freedom Muffins" for breakfast from now on!

I personally wish Bush 41 had "pulled out" instead of begetting 43.

 

[JohnEyles]

That's it! I'm eating "Freedom Muffins" for breakfast from now on!

The HoR member from NC who proposed "freedom fries" also became
one of the first (Republicans, at least) to advocate withdrawal from Iraq.

 

[samclem]

Lawrence has done it again!

Pulled the pin, rolled the grenade into the crowded room, then walk in 5 seonds later and say "Wow, this place is a mess! Why can't there be more moderation!"

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yep, looks like a bomb made a direct hit on an opinion factory.

 

[laurence]

I've learned my lesson, I won't start any more threads like this! I really was not trying to book the Daughters of the Confederacy in the same hotel as the NAACP. But I shouldn't act naive, I can't realistically expect a subject like this not to lead to a debate.

Still, the conversation stayed amazingly civil and is a credit to the board members.

 

[JohnEyles]

I can't realistically expect a subject like this not to lead to a debate.

And what is wrong with a debate ?

That's what the 'Other Topics' area is for. Works amazingly well I think, keeping
irrelevant discussions out of the other areas.

 

[JohnEyles]

My favorite Iraq protest song, by Jason Isbell, about a
Marine from his small home-town in Alabama:

What can you see from your window
I can't see anything from mine
Flags on the side of the highway
Scripture on grocery store signs
Maybe 18 was too early
Maybe 30 or 40 is too
Did you get chance to make peace with the man
Before he sent down his angels for you?

Mama's and grandmama's love you
Cause that's all they know how to do
And you never planned on the bombs in the sand
Or sleeping in your dress blues

Your wife said this all would be funny
If you came back home in a week
You'd turn 22 and they'd celebrate you
In a bar or tent by the creek
Your baby would just about be here
Your very last tour would be up
But you ain't coming back
They're all dressing in black
Drinking sweet tea in styrofoam cups

Mama's and grandmama's love you
American boys hate to lose
And you never planned on the bombs in the sand
Or sleeping in your dress blues

The high-school gymnasium is ready
Full of flowers and old legionaires
Nobody showed up to protest
Just a sniffle and stare

Red white and blue in the rafters
The silent old men from the corps
What did they say when they shipped you away
To fight somebody's Hollywood war

Mama's and grandmama's love you
'Cause that's all they know how to do
And you never planned on the bombs in the sand
Or sleeping in your dress blues

Nobody here could forget you
You showed us what we had to lose
And you never planned on the bombs in the sand
Or sleeping in your dress blues

 

[samclem]

I've learned my lesson, I won't start any more threads like this!

Hey, these threads are fine. As Rusty notes, that's what "Other Topics" is for.

Ever notice/wonder why the quality of info exchange on political and many other areas is better on this ER board than on boards purpose-built to discuss political issues/current events? I think the moderators deserve a lot of the credit, and the fact that we have a cross-section of opinion. Most of the political boards have a built in "perspective (left-wing, right-wing, green, libertarian, etc) and the discussion is too predictable and emotional. Also, there are plenty of intelligent folks here who are used to thinking for themselves.

 

[bright eyed]

I agree with Samclem.... this is an interesting bunch and pretty diplomatic (most of the time! )

 

[bssc]

Just remember that B-52 strikes are part of diplomacy.

 

[laurence]

Well I just don't want to be known as a troublemaker, especially since I somehow got labelled as a moderator. But yes, there is a reason this is the only board I participate on. Some of the best conversations I've had in life have been on this board, in fact, I find myself fudging a bit when talking to others by saying, "oh my friend was telling me the other day about xyz...." I hope they never ask where all these friends are....

 

[youbet]

Well I just don't want to be known as a troublemaker

It's too late!!

 

[unclemick]

Well I just don't want to be known as a troublemaker,

Nah - think of it as junior Curmudgeon in training - you know sort of like Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Explorer.

Time will pass. Then full fledged Curmudgeon, senior really old crusty Curmudgeon or something along those lines.

Maybe Blog and write a few books like Fred on Everything or something.

heh heh heh

 

[sgeeeee]

Nah - think of it as junior Curmudgeon in training - you know sort of like Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Explorer.

Time will pass. Then full fledged Curmudgeon, senior really old crusty Curmudgeon or something along those lines.

Maybe Blog and write a few books like Fred on Everything or something.

heh heh heh

Just make sure you study Curmudgeon at a respected and acredited institution. Not all Curmudgeon Certificates are equal.

 

[bssc]

Just make sure you study Curmudgeon at a respected and acredited institution. Not all Curmudgeon Certificates are equal.

I would avoid those Spam emails which say that they can get you a Curmudgeon Certificate based on your life experience. They are just a scam out to take your money.

 

[laurence]

What about the on-line curmudgeon programs? Oh wait, I think I'm already signed up for one...

 

[BUM]

And what is wrong with a debate ?

That's what the 'Other Topics' area is for. Works amazingly well I think, keeping
irrelevant discussions out of the other areas.

Rusty,
Kudos you actually GET it

"Protracted debate is the grit that polishes knowledge." B.Franklin




Back to the topic...

In Iraq we are killing people there who are determined to kill us anywhere.


OBTW Brits are sending in more troops. Y'all saw that right?

 

[JohnEyles]

Rusty,
Kudos you actually GET it

"Protracted debate is the grit that polishes knowledge." B.Franklin

Thanks, yes, and the corollary, you learn more from talking to people who
disagree with you (than from talking to people who agree with you).

In Iraq we are killing people there who are determined to kill us anywhere.

I'm not so sure about that. I think a lot of them want to kill us now because
we f*cked up their country so badly.

But I think mostly it's them wanting to kill each other, because they disagree with
the way they choose to interact with their imaginary friend.

 

[BUM]

I'm talking about al queda.

The sunnis and shiites need to have the civil war they want without our intervention. If they don't care about each other why should we? Let the God and the free market sort it all out. I could live with $200/bbl oil for a while.