Moving to Delaware?

[Katsmeow]

We are considering moving to Delaware from Texas. We are only interested in northern Delaware. New Castle County. From the research we've done, areas that have been suggested are Newark and suburbs, Pike Creek, Claymont, Bear. We ideally would spend about $400k. We could go up about $25k (or maybe a little more) but would prefer not to. Ideally we would want a small house (our 2400 SF house is way too big for us), little to no yard, and a house built since 1990 (if older would need to have already been remodeled). We would consider a townhouse but probably prefer a house.

Some of you may recall my posting last year about moving to Las Vegas. We visited late last summer and looked at houses and the area and were enthusiastic about it. However, we have now ruled out Las Vegas. I've posted in a separate thread about my discovery that I have 4 blockages in my coronary arteries (the worst is a 60% to 70% blockage in the LAD). An FFR was done and my blood flow was such that a stent is not needed. I am taking high dose statin and aspirin. Goal is to get LDL under 50 (at at last measurement). Anyway, one of the negatives of Las Vegas is that they don't have enough doctors and their hospitals are not the best. I realize now that my biggest risk is that I have a heart attack. If that happens I want to live within 20 minutes of a very good hospital. Also some of my coronary arteries are different (I have an extra artery on the left side and my left circumflex artery comes off my right coronary artery). So if I ever had to have surgery I would want someone very experienced. And, I do worry about the really unusual medical needs that can rarely come up where you need to be airlifted to a really great hospital. Las Vegas is not great for that as the closest "great" hospitals are in Phoenix and LA. I don't need to be 20 minutes from such a hospital but would want to be within an hour by air. So Las Vegas is out.

We started looking at alternatives and one we had considered earlier was Delaware. Things we like about it:

It meets my health care needs - Christiana Care seems to be a fine hospital, well able to handle a heart attack. In the unlikely event I need something more, I would easily be sent to Philadelphia. Delaware doesn't have enough doctors, but it seems better in northern than southern Delaware. And, I can always have a doctor in Philadelphia.

I like having access to the amenities of a big city. Delaware is a small state. The "ordinary" amenities such as grocery stores, pharmacy, everyday restaurants and the like are easily available in norther Delaware. For the "big city" stuff, we would be very close to Philadephia.

I absolutely love the central location of northern Delaware and how D.C., NYC, etc. are all only a few hours away. And, I love the idea of being able to take the train to a lot of it. DH and I can easily drive now but it would be nice to be able to go to NYC without having the drive there (we've done it and it is a pain). And, as we get older, being able to go out of town for a weekend without having to drive would be great.

Financially, Delaware is a huge savings over Texas. Property taxes in Texas (even with the over 65 tax freeze on some taxes) are just really high. Delaware's property taxes are much lower than Texas. Delaware has no sales tax. Yes, Delaware has a state income tax but they do not tax Social Security and there is a deduction for some of the rest of our income (from the IRA). We don't withdraw that much so we would likely owe no income tax or very little. All combined taxes in Delaware would be far, far lower in Delaware. Further there is the cost of house insurance which is very high in Texas. Our quote is up over 50% this year (with no claims ever). Delaware's house insurance is much less.

Less said about this the better but it was a key factor for us. Delaware matches my desires for state level politics.

We will not consider Pennsylvania (see my last criteria right about this). New Jersey is extremely tax unfriendly. There is a small chance we might find something in the general area that was on the Maryland side. However, Maryland is not as tax friendly (although for the right house it isn't so tax unfriendly as to make it totally unacceptable).

Negative stuff - We haven't really been to Delaware. Some years ago, we want on a vacation (driving) where we went to D.C., a dog show in Pennsylvania, then to NYC. Anyway, we drove through Delaware during all of that but, honestly, I don't really remember anything. We are trying to get a trip in there in the next few weeks. If this area doesn't work out, not really sure where we go from there.

Housing inventory in Delaware is limited. A lot of it (in our desired price range) is either older houses (really old) or newer townhomes. I had a bad townhouse experience 30+ years ago so I am leery of that. Also, there are our cats. We currently have 2 cats which probably most townhouses would allow. However, many (maybe all) limit you to 2 cats and we have thought about getting a third. So would prefer to have that option.

I know many people don't mind really older houses but I am reluctant to end up with a money pit that needs lots of work. I would consider an older house if someone had already done the remodeling.

Most houses have the master bedroom upstairs and few houses have it on the main floor. That isn't necessarily a dealbreaker if there was room for a stairlift if needed.

I am not interested in the lower part of Delaware. It is too far from the hospital I'm interested in. It has fewer amenities and isn't close enough to Philadelphia.

Oh, yes, weather. I know it has snow in winter which is different for us. On the other hand, you don't have stay indoors for 6 months due to heat and humidity. And, you can't have everything. So this is something I can compromise on.

Anyway -- if anyone has experience with the area would appreciate any comments.

 

[braumeister]

I had friends who moved from NYC to Newark, Delaware quite some time ago and loved it. I visited them a few times there and thought it was a great area, but they died a few years back so I can't ask them about what it's like now. I would certainly think it should be on your list to check out.

By the way, it's pronounced NEW-ARK, not like the city in NJ.

 

[W2R]

Wow, Katsmeow, I am sorry to read that you may need to move again. But then, maybe you'll find your "forever home" in Delaware!

Sounds like you have been thinking through your criteria for the new home carefully. Good idea to be looking for a home near the hospital you want. We are 1-2 miles from what we think is the best hospital in South Louisiana, which is great. The best part is that doctors and labs are all located in a corridor right by the hospital, so they are all 1-2 miles from us as well.

I know nothing about Delaware, because I haven't ever been there. Hope it turns out to be a wonderful new home for you.

 

[Katsmeow]

By the way, it's pronounced NEW-ARK, not like the city in NJ.

I actually did know this! It is mentioned, umm, prominently in some of the Delaware forums I've looked at.

Wow, Katsmeow, I am sorry to read that you may need to move again.

Oh, the idea of moving is not new. We made this decision (to move) over a year ago. Just been working on the details and the where...

 

[braumeister]

I actually did now this! It is mentioned, umm, prominently in some of the Delaware forums I've looked at.

Yeah, I remember being corrected immediately when I tried to use the NJ city's pronunciation the first time down there. The stress is on both syllables, not just the first.

One thing I remember from long ago in Newark was finding something called "chip steaks" in the supermarket. Fantastic for cheap, excellent sandwiches, but I've never seen it anywhere else.

 

[bigreader]

I grew up in the area around Philadelphia. Northern Delaware is basically another suburb, so while you are in a different state, Philadelphia still sets the tone. The area has tons going for it in terms of location, services, amenities, education and decent four season weather. I could happily live there again.

One thing about the East Coast is that people are actually very nice and pretty helpful. But they also have opinions that they like to share, sometimes at length and high volume! Sounds like Northern Delaware checks a lot of your boxes. Perhaps you can get a taste of Philly life by following local news and radio before you check the area out in person?
BR

 

[Montecfo]

We live in the DC suburbs. It is really nice to take the train to NYC or even the Chinatown busses. Very cheap and safe.

The Mid-Atlantic region, which we are also a part of has mild four-season weather. I grew up in Texas and we both lived there many years but we prefer the climate here in Northern VA.

The tax situation in Delaware is very retiree friendly as you have noted. Property taxes are night and day compared to Texas as you have also realized.

I also have coronary artery disease so yes proximity to medical care is important. But most of us do fine if we stay active and follow doctor orders. I hope you have optimism about that, it also helps.

I have no insights on specific locations but do have a favorable view.

All the best.

 

[Katsmeow]

Perhaps you can get a taste of Philly life by following local news and radio before you check the area out in person?

That is a great idea. I did that for Las Vegas and need to do it for that area.

I also have coronary artery disease so yes proximity to medical care is important. But most of us do fine if we stay active and follow doctor orders. I hope you have optimism about that, it also helps.

I have no insights on specific locations but do have a favorable view.

Thanks for the info, very helpful. I am definitely following doctor's orders. I started out with LDL at 181 last fall and at last check was at 59. I am hoping my next check in a couple of weeks will put me under 50. I've improved my eating (although my cardiologist thought I was already doing well - my problems are not really diet related) and even though not severely overweight have lost 16 pounds (10 left to go). And, yes, I am working to increase my activity back to what it was a few years ago (I got out of the habit during Covid). I do feel I have done everything I can do and I will keep doing that. But, I do want to be prudent about what can potentially go wrong (although I have hope that it won't).

 

[DrRoy]

We lived in Delaware twice while I was working for DuPont and did like it there. Watch out for city income tax.

 

[Dash man]

I lived in Dover, Delaware, for four years and loved it. We now live in the Philly suburbs and love it here too. In your price range you will have limited selection in housing choices, but you’ll find something. You’ll also be with a couple of hours of John’s Hopkins Medical Center in Baltimore. But Philly has a great selection of doctors and hospitals for any needs. The Philly area also is a huge sports town. Delaware has great beaches, but they get very crowded in season. We have a place at the Jersey Shore. I think you’ll be happy there.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

We haven't really been to Delaware.

This really says it all.

DE is kind of boring to me, with some rough areas as well. It's ok, but no thanks on living there permanently. I do like their tiny license plates.

 

[MBAustin]

I lived in Delaware twice. First time was 1979-83 in an apartment in Pike Creek then a condo/townhouse in Newark. Second time was 1987-95 in a house (70s era) in Hockessin. I think it's a great place to live for all of the reasons you mention. But it was pretty well built out when we left in 1995 so finding a house less than 20 years old will be tough, except down in the Bear area (which is not nearly as pretty as the Newark/Pike Creek/Hockessin area). Happy hunting!

 

[Gumby]

15 - 20 years ago, I often took the Amtrak down from NYC to go to court in Wilmington. It struck me as a small, sleepy, Southern city. It's probably more built up now. In any event, it's easy to get to NYC and DC on the train.

I know you didn't specifically ask, but I would recommend my little stretch of the Connecticut coast. Yale New Haven Hospital is one of the top in the nation, and the state has made itself much more tax friendly to retirees in recent years in terms of excluding social security, pension income and IRA withdrawals from income taxation. Property tax rates vary a lot depending on precisely which of our 169 cities and towns you live in. The average home price in my town is ~$400k according to Zillow. There are less expensive and more expensive towns nearby. And I think you would find it politically amenable as well.

 

[target2019]

My best friend has lived in the Wilmington area for most of his adult life. He's in Bear now, and has been there for 10 or more years.

These are my thoughts, having lived in Phila. for 30 years, and South Jersey for 40 years.

Northern Delaware has a mix of social classes. Old money (DuPont, etc.) built the chemical and banking industries. With the growth of the U.S. middle class, our entire region (Delaware Valley) has become very diverse.

Delaware and Philadelphia have always been connected by family branches. But the cities and their suburbs are different.

Affluent families of Delaware had homes in Southeast Pennsylvania as well as Wilmington.

Using the Phila. Navy Yard as a locus, the entire region is congested because of Rte. 95, the bridges, and so on. I would look at google traffic map at certain times, and see what happens during the summer months.

The big hospitals in Delaware and Philadelphia have had superior reputations for as long as I can remember.

RE tax in Delaware is very small as you've discovered. If you cross the bridge into South Jersey, you'll see the difference in housing as well as taxes.

New developments throughout the region are expensive. In South Jersey there may be communities where you can get an abatement.

The train service is really a good deal for day trips. You can get to D.C., Philly, NYC and Baltimore, and have time for the return trip.

The Delaware Valley has a tremendouns amount of culture. After 70 years I cannot find one reason to not live in this area.

About healthcare, what you can find are satellite offices of the major hospitals. That is a work in progress, as the mega health systems get involved on a regional basis. For example, Jefferson Health and others have opened GP and specialist offices throughout South Jersey.

Hope it works for youse.

 

[bigreader]

Hope it works for youse.

Yeah, but most importantly, jeet?

 

[Katsmeow]

I lived in Dover, Delaware, for four years and loved it. We now live in the Philly suburbs and love it here too. In your price range you will have limited selection in housing choices, but you’ll find something.

One of the things that changes over time as we are retired for longer is that what we really want and need for a house has changed. At one time I had a 4500 SF house on almost 3 acres, with 2 double garages, and a guest house and a large covered patio and a pool. Now, we find our 2400 SF house too large for us. We don't need acres of land or a guest house or a pool. I find that in our current house I spend 90% of my time in 3 rooms -- bedroom, my office and the kitchen. I guess I would hit 95% if you added in the bathroom. I have a lovely yard and pool but mostly just look at them through the window. I don't actually use them much. So, my housing "demands" at this point are just not that great. Which is why I don't want to spend more for my house. The house we are downsizing from is more expensive but I just don't find the new to spend my money on expensive house any more. I would rather spend my money on other things. (I know you weren't disputing any of that just kind of explaining our reasoning for spending so little on a house).

This really says it all.

DE is kind of boring to me, with some rough areas as well.

I'm kind of OK with the boring (and will avoid living in the rough areas) so long as it is easy to get to the less boring part when I want to.

I lived in Delaware twice. First time was 1979-83 in an apartment in Pike Creek then a condo/townhouse in Newark. Second time was 1987-95 in a house (70s era) in Hockessin. I think it's a great place to live for all of the reasons you mention. But it was pretty well built out when we left in 1995 so finding a house less than 20 years old will be tough, except down in the Bear area (which is not nearly as pretty as the Newark/Pike Creek/Hockessin area). Happy hunting!

When I was looking for houses in our price range I found a number in the Pike Creek area that seemed to fit the bill. (Hockessin is too expensive for what we want). They are, indeed, mostly older houses. However, many of them have been completely remodeled which would be fine. I don't mind the older house if it doesn't still have the original kitchens and bath...

I know you didn't specifically ask, but I would recommend my little stretch of the Connecticut coast. Yale New Haven Hospital is one of the top in the nation, and the state has made itself much more tax friendly to retirees in recent years in terms of excluding social security, pension income and IRA withdrawals from income taxation. Property tax rates vary a lot depending on precisely which of our 169 cities and towns you live in. The average home price in my town is ~$400k according to Zillow. There are less expensive and more expensive towns nearby. And I think you would find it politically amenable as well.

I actually spent quite a bit of time looking at Connecticut. Someone recommended to me, actually, that I live in western Massachusetts (south of Springfield) and then go to doctors in Hartford. That didn't work for me (I didn't like the Massachusetts houses). So, I did look around the New Haven area. I agree the housing costs were fine. The real estate taxes were high though. DH is reluctant for anywhere with a long, cold weather so he wasn't enthusiastic on anything north of Delaware. However, if we visit Delaware and don't like it we might visit the issue.

My best friend has lived in the Wilmington area for most of his adult life. He's in Bear now, and has been there for 10 or more years.

These are my thoughts, having lived in Phila. for 30 years, and South Jersey for 40 years.

Thank you. This was helpful to me. One of the best things I like about the area is being close to be able to travel easily to so many places.

 

[Gumby]

... DH is reluctant for anywhere with a long, cold weather so he wasn't enthusiastic on anything north of Delaware. However, if we visit Delaware and don't like it we might visit the issue....

If you live on the Connecticut coast, as I do, the weather is very clement. If you are a gardener, we are in USDA hardiness zone 7a, which is exactly the same as Wilmington, Delaware.

 

[target2019]

Thank you. This was helpful to me. One of the best things I like about the area is being close to be able to travel easily to so many places.

One item I forgot to mention is that some retirees move to Southern Delaware, as it is less populated, and that is where specific retirement communities sprouted in the 90's. When we've looked at those type of communities, we always found a problem of one type or another.. For us, we have our dream location, and don't want to give up the wooded yard, closeness to Philly, and so on.

I once had a friend who moved to the Milford area. He had a home built, not too expansive, and it had access to water, which was his thing. He loved to go out in his small craft at the crack of dawn.

It adds another hour of distance, though. It could be a real bother to get to medical care in the Wilmington area and Philly.

Here's a map with communities pinned. Easy enough to research those, or not. The map also reminds me of how close it is to Longford Gardens, Chadds Ford, and many historic locations. https://www.google.com/maps/search/retirement+delaware/@39.7144467,-75.7017628,50165m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

My friends moved to the outskirts of Wilmington, just south of Bellvue State Park, with their school-aged daughter, probably for the medical care, as he has chronic health issues. They love it, and they're on a limited income. I agree that the train is incredibly convenient; I'll be going from DC to NYC next weekend by Acela, to visit friends, and it's very convenient. You can also take that line to a stop right at BWI for domestic or international travel. Northern Maryland is very nice, and although it's more rural and agricultural than the DC or Baltimore suburbs, it's not as conservative as the western panhandle or the remote shore areas to the south and east. However, I'd say the Wilmington area is more convenient to...well, almost anything, than northern MD.

 

[Sunset]

How is the humidity there ?
When I worked in Baltimore, I found the summer humidity so thick, it felt like I was swimming in the air !

 

[Dash man]

How is the humidity there ?
When I worked in Baltimore, I found the summer humidity so thick, it felt like I was swimming in the air !

The humidity can be high in July and August, but not as bad a the south. People get used to it.

 

[madatrub]

Stay away from Wilmington.

 

[Dash man]

Stay away from Wilmington.

Why do you say that?

 

[target2019]

Stay away from Wilmington.

Our city celebrates a diversity of cultures and lifestyles. Foodies love Wilmington’s burgeoning restaurant scene on Market Street, Union Street, and in Trolley Square. Art lovers*enjoy access to Delaware Art Museum, dozens of galleries, live music venues like The Grand Opera House and Live Nation at The Queen, and the state’s premier centers for the performing arts.*Outdoor enthusiasts have 552 acres of parks at their fingertips, ranging from neighborhood pocket parks to Brandywine Park’s winding trails through thick forest – there’s no better place in the state to be a runner or cyclist.

https://www.wilmingtonde.gov/about-...ng restaurant,centers for the performing arts.

If there's something specific about the city you don't like, please let everyone know.

 

[madatrub]

https://www.wilmingtonde.gov/about-...ng restaurant,centers for the performing arts.

If there's something specific about the city you don't like, please let everyone know.

13th highest murder rate in the US. Panhandling and Homelessness on most corners in the center of town. High levels of mental health issues on full display 24-7. Quite a few open air drug areas reminiscent of Philadelphia.

The Christiana area and heading south and west are nice for all the reasons mentioned throughout this thread, but the closer you get to Wilmington, the worse it gets.

I've lived in the SE PA/DE/South Jersey area for 50 years.