Building our new retirement place

[street]

^ It is exciting time when you can actually start doing some work. Good for You!

How far from the 3 phase do you have to trench to where you want the transformer?

I might have a few more questions and suggestions once you given how many feet from three phase to where you want transformer or meter?

 

[skyking1]

The big cost would have been putting in a junction box, at ~4k. I am going to the far corner of my property to use an existing one, and trenching ~325 feet @ a cost of $7.10 per foot of primary cable.
If I can bring it all together that trench will serve at least 3 purposes, power, water, internet.
If I had opted for a junction box of my own, the trench would be ~10 feet.
The under 6K price is doing the longer <multipurpose> trenching.
Adding a 3 phase transformer for big shop tools adds another 4K or so. It is prohibitive.
I can buy a lot of VFD 3 phase generators for that kind of money
https://www.ato.com/single-phase-to-three-phase-vfd?affiliate=search&gclid=CjwKCAiAzrWOBhBjEiwAq85QZw1u76946IDTlByn4gXCv6zmCF71Ksdr99a7H-ke8jOHTff3RqFV3RoC_AkQAvD_BwE

 

[pb4uski]

... In my experience that water service line can fail, so I will at least double down and put in two runs. It is cheap insurance.
I will run whatever conduit that the local cable wants, and also double down there too. Pipe is cheap, tearing everything up again not so much.

I agree that materials are cheap and that for many things that it is best to use higher quality materials during construction. However, I've never had a water line fail at any of my properties or my parents properties so the backup piping for water and cable would not be something that I would do... I'd take my chances on that.

 

[skyking1]

I work for a plumbing contractor with a service department. When I am available I dig up all sorts of pavement and landscaping chasing leaking services.
The extra conduit is for when the competition brings in fiber or cable and I can then choose to price shop with little consequence. Being 400' off the main road does color my decisions.
All in, I might spend an additional $700 in pipe and conduit.

 

[street]

The big cost would have been putting in a junction box, at ~4k. I am going to the far corner of my property to use an existing one, and trenching ~325 feet @ a cost of $7.10 per foot of primary cable.
If I can bring it all together that trench will serve at least 3 purposes, power, water, internet.
If I had opted for a junction box of my own, the trench would be ~10 feet.
The under 6K price is doing the longer <multipurpose> trenching.
Adding a 3 phase transformer for big shop tools adds another 4K or so. It is prohibitive.
I can buy a lot of VFD 3 phase generators for that kind of money
https://www.ato.com/single-phase-to-three-phase-vfd?affiliate=search&gclid=CjwKCAiAzrWOBhBjEiwAq85QZw1u76946IDTlByn4gXCv6zmCF71Ksdr99a7H-ke8jOHTff3RqFV3RoC_AkQAvD_BwE

I would ask your power supplier a few questions before you decide on what you want to do.
At 350 feet you will have about 3.5 volt drop using 250MCM USE wire using 150 amps continuously. So, if you placed the transformer right beside the 3 phase junction box you could run USE to home instead of primary cable that 350 feet.
I would ask them what the cost would be for that option. I also would ask them for the least expensive way for the service you need.

I am glad you opted out for 3 phase power, single phase is all you should need.

I also like the meter/disconnect/breaker boxes all set on a property line and have none of that equipment attached to the home. It will set away with easy access and hassle free from building for things that change on your home through the years.

Onne thing I advise you to do is bury big enough USE wire for future expansion or usage if that maybe the case.

When I was in the business the cheapest but without sacrificing quality was to run service wire (USE) instead of primary cable. I also would run that in pipe for future if a cable fails etc..

 

[skyking1]

they will only go 150 feet from a transformer to the meter. I could choose to run farther but In any case The same trench will be dug.
I am paying them a total of $7.10 for primary in conduit to the transformer.
Now back to loads:
200 amp service to home
100 amp sub panel to Auxiliary Dwelling Unit ( ADU)
200 amp minimum service to large shop.
I think I want my transformer close.
I may also quit claim a lot at that end of the property to relatives. Now I get to repeat 700' of trenching for that?
I want that transformer close, and will sweep out an extra conduit onto my lot and also one to the edge of the property for the neighbor, who may develop soon and have to pay latecomer charges to use my facility.
EDIT: I found the wire you mentioned @$4 per foot.
https://nassaunationalcable.com/products/250-triplex?variant=27475864551524&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=siraj&utm_campaign=siraj&gclid=CjwKCAiAzrWOBhBjEiwAq85QZzN4xvX5keqTM-odI_gxX3AN_z3VJiVbJ-T195m7QQj97ZrFVB5kgxoCI4AQAvD_BwE

I'd still be on the hook for the conduit and installation. So the $ 7.10 for the primary with them doing the install seems like a deal.

 

[street]

Good for you! You have a plan, and you need to do what you feel comfortable with. If you only have a 200A service and the length isn't too far 250MCM would be an over kill.

The PS has a good policy if you for the service to that point newcomers will have to pay half back to you.

There are a lot of options when doing services and difference in costs with the same results.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Bamaman]

Everywhere I look, Electric Vehicles appear to be the future of personal transportation--like it or not. And that means charging stations must be added to homes. The auto/truck world is changing so fast.

The question is whether many homes are going to be equipped electrically to easily wire up charging equipment? Another question is whether neighborhoods even have heavy enough wiring for every house to recharge their cars overnight at the same time?

Putting a little thought into the electrical design might save some $ down the line.

 

[skyking1]

I have a 50 amp 240V welding outlet in the garage I built 20 years ago, and the new garage would have one too. I always figured it was sufficient for a fast car charger.

 

[skyking1]

i made another call and that junction box tie in is not an option. I got a second engineer on the phone and that is a 600 amp main line, which they cannot connect me to. Bummer!
The nearest box with 200 amp and breakers is across the street. Now I wait for the guy who knows, we all know that guy
There may be some 2" run back across the road, otherwise my price went up quite a bit more than just the extra wire. He knows the area and as-builts.

 

[street]

So, you aren't completely clear where you can get power from, right? The way you described and the way I interpreted earlier is that you get the first 150 feet free? Do you have to pay for the transformer or is that part of the service and no charge for transformer?

A 200-amp service is a common everyday run of the mill home size service. Now, with saying that if you would go and check the amps on your home today when you have the normal things running you wouldn't be near 200 amps. Everything in my house added up wouldn't be 200 amps if all on at one time.

 

[skyking1]

The transformer itself is on them. I pay for the vault to set it on and the wire and conduit and parts.
There is nothing free as far as cable. Either primary wire or secondary, I pay for the wire and conduit by the foot. I get to dig and backfill the ditch.
Because there is no transformer anywhere near the property I'll be footing the bill for getting one installed. I may as well have it nearby.
What will get built on that end of the property:
A 2000 sq foot home on an unfinished basement.
an 850 sq foot mother in law home.
A detached garage with solar panels on the roof, grid tied and net metered.
a 2 story 2800 sq foot shop/barn.
What *might* get built in addition:
I may short plat out 1 lot, so another entire residence.

 

[street]

Thanks, Skyking1. Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[pjigar]

I would ask your power supplier a few questions before you decide on what you want to do.
At 350 feet you will have about 3.5 volt drop using 250MCM USE wire using 150 amps continuously. So, if you placed the transformer right beside the 3 phase junction box you could run USE to home instead of primary cable that 350 feet.
I would ask them what the cost would be for that option. I also would ask them for the least expensive way for the service you need.

I am glad you opted out for 3 phase power, single phase is all you should need.

I also like the meter/disconnect/breaker boxes all set on a property line and have none of that equipment attached to the home. It will set away with easy access and hassle free from building for things that change on your home through the years.

Onne thing I advise you to do is bury big enough USE wire for future expansion or usage if that maybe the case.

When I was in the business the cheapest but without sacrificing quality was to run service wire (USE) instead of primary cable. I also would run that in pipe for future if a cable fails etc..

I envy you for having home site 350 ft from the road. We are 1500 ft from road so everything is challenging! BTW the water line we have is over 40 years old (PVC) and it has only failed once in our 7 years of ownership. The failure was at a busted compression repair union near a yard faucet. Having said that, I have broke the water main 2 times in 3 months due to digging accidents!

 

[skyking1]

Over the years in the industry, I have collected and then used spare pipe from jobs that was to be thrown away. Unfortunately the pile is getting small at just the wrong time, so I only have 100' of 4" Sch 40 PVC and a similar amount of 2", and some odds and ends.
I have preached the mantra of "extra sleeves" to friends for decades.
When I help out a friend with house development, I make sure there are sleeves in place under walks and across both the garage end and the street end of the driveway for landscape lighting, irrigation, power gates.

 

[street]

We billed consumer for transformers on new services so good for you, with no charge for transformer.

 

[skyking1]

Yes, I pay a base charge of 1350 and for some sweeps, and I dig the hole and backfill. I can submit a load calculation and if the future loads are sufficient they may drop a 37.5 instead of the smallest 25KVa unit.
I think it will probably be the 25, and it will be maybe 10' from the single meter for all buildings.
Since I may do a short plat for a single extra lot up there I will sweep a spare out for that, for certain.
I can put in a meter cabinet with multiple disconnects in the cabinet and a few external plugs for construction, an RV, etc.
That will be handy and permanent. The meter cabinet will be maybe 130' from the house and less to the shop.
With my new PUD, they have a significant basic charge of $39.55 per month, so having a single meter is a must IMO.
where I am at now, it is much less at ~$13, but that is per meter.
The power is around 0.076 per Kwh.
We are going to plan for solar panels and net metering. Right now the incentive program is out of money so we are waiting on the "solar coaster" as my brother's installer calls it
The state legislature is likely to re-fund something, and then there will be a rush to install systems.
There is a federal tax credit that is 26% for equipment installed by the end of 2022, and 22% by the end of 2023. After that it is done until the feds do something else.
We plan on doing a geothermal heat pump and getting done before end of 2023 to get that one. This tax credit does not provide for a refund, it can only be applied to a tax bill.
The remainder could be carried over a year but I question that if the program ends in '23.
I did not plan for this, but our target retirement date of 5/1 will insure that we have enough income tax to take advantage of that. Sometimes life is funny that way.

 

[skyking1]

These are some posts from over in the I-Bond thread, I don't want to derail it further.
Originally posted by @Sunset

Is there any danger of the foundation freezing over winter ?

I always thought this was an issue unless you heat it, or bury the footings during freezing temps.
This is what I've seen but my experience is from the North.

Originally posted by @Fermion

Might be thinking about frost heave...I don't think that is going to be an issue in Sequim...I worried about it here in eastern Washington but we got our foundation backfilled before the temps dropped under 30F. We also put in really really good footing drains.

Footing drains and capillary break under the slab is key. We pour huge tiltup buildings that are unheated and exposed through the worst of it with no issues. You can't have frost heave without moisture.
Sidewalks around here don't frost heave either, they get heaved by tree roots
Spalling is a frost related issue, and that is mitigated by using air-entrained concrete. You can request it when you order for sidewalk and driveway pours.
I have the luxury of building on a lot with some significant elevation changes. I can dig the footing drain piping away from the daylight end of the basement not very far before it daylights out to ground level. That means I won't ever need a sump pump.
The immediate ground will still be above the basement slab at the lowest point, so there will be a concrete well area outside the basement door with a drain in it.
My plan is to make a nice path that loops around there so I can walk on down to the basement door without steps and also be able to use a hand truck, wheelbarrow or cart to take things down there.

 

[skyking1]

The address app is in the works, and now I have an answer on the power. I don't have to tear up the street, I do have to pay for a fuse pedestal.

I spoke to the building inspector and he seemed like a good guy, not at all like dealing with the county here. He texted me some resources for doing a prescriptive home design, and said he would take a look at a quick sketch to see if I was on the right path. I am not against paying an engineer or architect, but it may not be necessary if I stick to the IRC standards.

 

[skyking1]

We got back up to the property in good weather so we could see what we could see.
I drove the truck up on there for the first time. DW appreciated that.
It turns out we don't have an unobstructed view of Mt. Baker. There are some deciduous trees that have it masked perfectly.

hopefully they will come down for some development.
We decided that building the house where I originally wanted to put the shop is best.
Unfortunately it requires removing some of my favorite trees, but it will result in the best winter sun.
The trees to the left of the truck will go, the one behind it can stay. The house will be about where the truck is to have the view of water below.

It was tough to decide, because on the lower half there is a good view of the Olympics to the west and some snow.

 

[Sunset]

I wonder how many years will it be until the trees in front of the water block the view of the water ? Maybe a decade ?

Perhaps the photo is at standing height and from the upper windows of a house it will be a longer lasting view.

 

[skyking1]

What is going to grow in that view or a bunch of houses and I'll probably lose the ground level view in places. I do have a six or seven foot elevation advantage to the next door property, so any deck or windows on the second level will always have a view to the east like that.

 

[skyking1]

I've been cooking on the design and plan in my head for a while now. It has evolved and morphed a few times.
Now it's time to get a design on paper and get it to permits.
Do any of you have a recommendation for a home building forum?
I see
Houzz
diychatroom
finehomebuilding

I will be designing it myself with an engineer friend to help with the permit drawings.

 

[pacergal]

No recommendations, but it sounds like fun to design your own home!

 

[street]

I don't have any helpful answer but just an exciting time for you, I'm sure. When I built my home, I got free house plans online and we than made some changes to them but that was the blue print to start. A local small town lumber yard privately owned, than just drew mine up for doing business with them. Plans were simple and few but had all the measurements to follow etc.

My electrical layout was done by an electrician friend that had all code and measurements etched on to the floor plan I gave him. I did all wiring and electrical work. Heating and plumber did their own thing without any plans from me.

I was the general contractor did everything from ground to finish except heating and plumbing. So, no middleman and back and forth with a change that we wanted. We just did it on the fly.

Good luck.