Buying your way into a prestigious university...

[Chuckanut]

It's not unusual for the child of a big donor to get into a school he/she might otherwise not qualify for. Mommy and Daddy buy a big building, fund a scholarship program or endow a prestigious seat and there you go. Presumably other students also benefit from having good facilities, good professors and scholarships.

The difference in the current scandal is that the only people who benefited were the coaches and crooks who took the parent's money. There is no benefit to the other students. Not one building was built, nobody got a scholarship and no world-class professors were hired.

 

[Nick12]

We know, that's normal, and always been the case. Athletic admissions/scholarships, however, usually require some baseline and ... well athletic skill. Those kids have to play, and school officials don't hide that, nor are fake charities setup to grease the money around.

This case is different. In this case students were paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to get admitted under athletics even though they didn't participate or even join the teams. This money was facilitated via a backroom with brokers and faculty, not on the books. That's why it's different.

Understood however my point was big money boosters that give huge amounts of money to university athletic programs to build world class athletic facilities for the scholarship athletes have kids that are non athletic and at times don't meet the grades to get into these schools . I knew a few of them in my classes. Buying your way into universities and in life have been going on for hundreds of years.

 

[GravitySucks]

Delete

 

[ChiliPepr]

Don't bypass the accepted pathways of bribery.

 

[njhowie]

35 years ago, I was a math graduate teaching assistant at a top 25 university. One evening, the week before final exams in a freshman calculus course, while in my office I was approached by one of my students, with his best friend (also in the same class) tagging along. The student was failing and asked what it would take for me to give him an A on the final exam. I told him he had to do that on his own. He began throwing out numbers like $500, $1000, $1500. I told him I'd forget he even asked and to go study. His best friend had an A going in to finals.

The day of the final rolls around, and the exam room has about 100 students in it. The two students are sitting next to each other. About midway through the exam, I clearly see the one copying off of the other and I tell him to move to another seat.

Later that evening, while going through the exams the cheating was apparent. The flunky had clearly copied off the A student. Now, one might ask, how could you know? Well, the A student had gotten a question wrong - botched it up royally, and somehow the flunky had the same exact answer with the same exact work - line for line.

I brought both exams to the professor, and I forget what the outcome was, but I believe nothing came of it. I later learned that the flunky was the son of one of the trustees of the university.

I learned early, this stuff always goes on.

 

[marko]

Well as long as we're going down this road:
I went to a prep school where the "prep" was essentially being taught the SAT tests every single day for 4 years. At least one or two classes a day
Every month or so we were given mock SATs, graded and figured out where we went wrong.
We probably took "SATs" 50 times before we got to the real ones.
Despite that, some of my aforementioned idiot classmates still couldn't get into Ivy League without their grampy pulling some strings.

 

[kgtest]

Huge booster donors to the athletic programs especially at power house D1 schools are also well taken care of. The athletic teams especially the university football teams that generate millions of dollars to the university can get the boosters children admitted even if their grades do not to meet entry requirements.

Who would've thought putting your name on the side of the stadium came with perks?

 

[Midpack]

Sorry. I misunderstood your post. You said this: "Wealthy folks have been buying admission for their kids forever, but they did it above board." I took it to mean that people used to do it above board whereas now they are cheating. I misunderstood you. Sorry.

No problem. We all know the above board variety (e.g. donate a building) has been around forever, and therefore somewhat acceptable. If Mr. Moneybags spends millions on a building (named "Moneybags" Hall) at his alma mater, would anyone be surprised if Moneybags junior gets in?

And I am sure the under the table cheating (bribes, fake athletes, altered test scores) didn't just start, but it's probably getting worse (because it's cheaper than above board?). But the recent FBI case shows it has become an industry - I'd like to think that wasn't always the case.

But the real kicker to me is wealthy folks cheating by paying for bribes/altering test scores to get their kids into prestigious schools - AND then claiming a deduction on their taxes on top of it!!! Are you kidding me?

 

[Omega]

We all know (or should) about legacy admissions, about scholarships going to preferred high schools, about "donations" helping grease the way acceptance. That's the open secret. There's always been a path for money, not a true level playing field ever.

What is most interesting (and worse) than all of that, is these folks couldn't even play by THAT elite sub-set of rules. They had to go full criminal and create side doors instead of backdoors.

Students admitted under these new circumstances weren't even expected to pretend to do well, and didn't even come close to the admittance standards. This was straight up bribery, lies, rico, tax-fraud (the "fixers" ran under a charity). Test scores were faked, photos were shopped to make students qualify as athletes.

I feel most sorry for students who would have been accepted but didn't get in because their places were stolen.

YES! This exactly! I just can't wrap my mind around how unnecessary it is! Why not go the old fashioned route and make a huge donation for a new library or housing and your kids get in? At least this way the whole school benefits.

 

[mystang52]

I read this morning that the daughters of one of the parents that "bought" their entrance to USC plan to not return because they are afraid of being bullied.

That's their reason to not return? It's all about how they would be treated? Not about the dishonesty?

Amen!

The business school that I went to had employees of the school have their children attend tuition free provided they meet academic requirements and remain in good standing. One kid I knew went to my school while his parent was a janitor at the school.

This is a great employee benefit, but note the all-important requirement that the student meet academic standards, unlike the spoiled Hollywood-and-others cheaters.

I also have a distaste for these people as parents. Did they consider having their kids attend a college they qualified to get into? M'gosh, what lesson did they teach their kids about values, earning your way etc? I fully recognize these mega-rich people live in a different world, but at least teach them some basic morals.

 

[Chuckanut]

There are a lot of wealthy people who use their wealth for good. I would bet that the number of similar wealthy people who have funded scholarships far exceeds the number of miscreants in this scandal.

It's good to keep this all in perspective, and let the legal system work through it.

What interests me most is that the Feds were tipped off to this behavior by a bad guy who had nothing to do with it himself. But, he knew about it and wanted to see if he could bargain his way to a softer penalty for himself.

I wonder how many participants in this crime ever thought that some otherwise unknown and uninvolved person might 'drop a dime' on them for his own benefit.

 

[kgtest]

Full criminal lol. Aunt Beckys gonna need a ride from jail. Lets not forget the conplete and utrer irony. Aunt Becky from America's Family Show...i mean THE family show that got paid ungodly actress salary to portray the wholesome families american dream...just got charged with the worst publicly visible college admission scandal of our time. People are surprised by this. These are the same people voting for our elected officials. Politics aside money does not create smarts. This has never been more clear.

 

[CaliKid]

No problem. We all know the above board variety (e.g. donate a building) has been around forever, and therefore somewhat acceptable. If Mr. Moneybags spends millions on a building (named "Moneybags" Hall) at his alma mater, would anyone be surprised if Moneybags junior gets in?

And I am sure the under the table cheating (bribes, fake athletes, altered test scores) didn't just start, but it's probably getting worse (because it's cheaper than above board?). But the recent FBI case shows it has become an industry - I'd like to think that wasn't always the case.

But the real kicker to me is wealthy folks cheating by paying for bribes/altering test scores to get their kids into prestigious schools - AND then claiming a deduction on their taxes on top of it!!! Are you kidding me?

That is true. Crazy really. It seems like tax fraud would be among the charges. I have not noticed that yet but should be.

 

[greydog17]

Tried to post link to WSJ writer's commentary; "An Idiots Guide to Bribing and Cheating Your Way Into College" but subscription is req. If you can find it, its worth reading.

Excerpt; "If the stunning racketeering, bribery and fraud charges presented Tuesday bear out, both groups of people will get what they deserve - prison sentences. Though I'd be in favor of turning the jail time into work release scrubbing toilets at nearest community college. At least they would be cleaning up after people who are trying to honestly earn their way through the education system."

 

[Redbugdave]

Bribery always involves two sides. Do not blame just the rich parents. Blame goes all around...all the way to upper echelons of the colleges as well as the coaches and middlemen that make it happen.

Now that the cat is out of the bag, do you think the colleges will refund the bribery money back to the parents for non-admittance? I don't think so. I have a lower opinion of the colleges than the parents for letting it happen.

I think you will enjoy my by-line below.

 

[Jerry1]

Tried to post link to WSJ writer's commentary; "An Idiots Guide to Bribing and Cheating Your Way Into College" but subscription is req. If you can find it, its worth reading.

Excerpt; "If the stunning racketeering, bribery and fraud charges presented Tuesday bear out, both groups of people will get what they deserve - prison sentences. Though I'd be in favor of turning the jail time into work release scrubbing toilets at nearest community college. At least they would be cleaning up after people who are trying to honestly earn their way through the education system."

I love it. I'm sure prison isn't fun at any level, but these guys will also cheat their way out of a regular prison and be treated better than any other prisoner. Seeing them literary cleaning up after college kids would be poetic. Might actually help them get grounded in reality again.

 

[Nick12]

YES! This exactly! I just can't wrap my mind around how unnecessary it is! Why not go the old fashioned route and make a huge donation for a new library or housing and your kids get in? At least this way the whole school benefits.

Being in the public eye is not for every millionaire or perhaps billionaire when it comes to donating to the school for their own personal reasons including for their own safety. There were a few out of towners kids that went to the Northeastern prep boarding school I attended that were from select countries in Europe/Asia. Mommy and Daddy donated huge amounts of money to school, did not want to be recognized and their kids were under different alias names while in school. Good guys all around I remember.

 

[audreyh1]

Bribery always involves two sides. Do not blame just the rich parents. Blame goes all around...all the way to upper echelons of the colleges as well as the coaches and middlemen that make it happen.

Now that the cat is out of the bag, do you think the colleges will refund the bribery money back to the parents for non-admittance? I don't think so. I have a lower opinion of the colleges than the parents for letting it happen.

I think you will enjoy my by-line below.

Well the colleges weren’t bribed. Individual coaches were bribed.

 

[stepford]

I guess my question in all of this is what's the point? If your kid doesn't have the ability to get into a top ranked university then they'll just crash and burn when the serious work starts. I went to "name" schools and watched lots of kids flame out when they didn't have either the brains or discipline required.

Sneaking a kid into a school where they don't belong isn't doing anyone favors.

 

[youbet]

I never said it was, just another example where money talks. It appears to be the norm in a lot of capitalist countries, legal or otherwise.

Only capitalistic countries? I'm under the impression that payola is big biz in communistic or socialistic countries as well.

 

[Franklin]

Unfortunately I know one of these schools, a few of the higher (way higher ups). and some parents involved. This was not a surprise, never really talked about, and likely the tip of the iceberg. I have a child who was denied from one of these schools and it became clear to me that I needed to be or know a legacy and also make a donation that made the tuition seem small. So, while we know many legacy friends that made the cut, we opted for a route to college that the kids had to land on their own merit. I am confident my kids preferred it that way. So, we may see this go deeper than just the current headlines.

 

[Chuckanut]

Now that the cat is out of the bag, do you think the colleges will refund the bribery money back to the parents for non-admittance?

The colleges did not receive the money, the dishonest coaches, test takers, and scheme masterminds got it. I see no moral or legal reason for the colleges to return the money. The colleges have their part to play in this sordid affair, but unjust enrichment due to criminal behavior doesn't not seem to be a part of it at this time.

 

[Bamaman]

My best friend went to Wharton to get his MBA in Finance. He always joked how the undergraduate students paid huge tuition fees to be in the Ivy League, however they never had a single class taught by the famous faculty members. They may well have been in a good state university for far less money--and transferred to Wharton for grad school.

My sister and I were in a big city state university, and my mother went to work to put us there with no student loans. But tuition my last semester was a whopping $192.50--a bargain. Most Southern state universities are around $4K per semester for in state tuition--still a bargain.

 

[Chuckanut]

I went to a public state college. In my major area about 90% of my classes were taught by PhD's. And the others were darn good, usually people with a Masters Degree who worked in the field.

 

[JAGOTI]

The silver lining is that maybe now the "Higher Education Admissions System" will be forced to become transparent.

I feel badly for the tens of thousands of Asians who have been systematically discriminated against for decades for the sin of being "too smart".