Cheap, decent desktop

Once again, you're cordially invited to start a "mac vs pc" or "why apple computers are great and you should pay $1500 for one!" thread of your very own.

The dell $350 computer is plenty good enough for what 95% of people want to do 95% of the time, and can be inexpensively customized to suit what 98% of people want to do 98% of the time.

I'll be starting a new "good deals on computers" thread and will ask the moderators to do what they can to keep it as a place to post available deals and not endless and unnecessary discussions about less filling/tastes great, ASP's or market share.

In the meanwhile, I saw that Suze Orman was on tv yesterday advising people to pay off their mortgages.

Hitler in a kayak eating avocados!
 
cute fuzzy bunny said:
When I went to look at the Mac Pro, which would be good competition for the $999 dell system I pointed at earlier, the price was $2399 similarly equipped with no monitor.

What a rip!
Click to expand...

C'mon CFB, you of all people should know better. Mac Pro is a dual quad core Xeon "Harpertown" platform. It doesn't look like Dell XPS has anything in this league. I have to go to the Precision line, where I find the following: Precision T7400 w/ 2x2.8GHz Xeons: $3,688. MacPro w/ 2x2.8GHz Xeons: $2,599.

Over $1000 of Dell fairy dust.

A rip indeed.
 
Yep, I'm a little bit familiar with Harpertown. ;)

Just what every home user needs. Dual quad xeons, and quite an appropriate comparison for a cheap home desktop thread.

Seems Dell doesnt offer a cheap dual quad xeon product because almost nobody needs one or would buy one. Nice niche for a small player like Apple.

Whose market share is actually 8.1% (according to Gartner) not 21%. Gartner also makes the claim (which I agree with) that the market share increase is largely a one time uptick as a result of Apples migration to a better hardware base that also runs windows.
 
cute fuzzy bunny said:
...quite an appropriate comparison for a cheap home desktop thread.
Click to expand...

Hey, you brought the MacPro into the discussion not me! I'm just trying to keep a lid on the hyperbole.

Sorry that this thread has gone OT. I find the dynamics of the PC industry very interesting right now, and an interesting backdrop for the sub 500 PC phenom.

moving on...

dizzy
 
Dizz, please post here when Apple releases a Mid-Tower PC with a quality power supply and case, extra memory slots, HD expansion, good and quiet cooling, a mid range processor and chipset, and standard memory for the same price as a comparable PC. They can't do it now because it will cannibalize their MacPro which is sold as their 'workstation' to people who think they need a Mac/OS-X, but would do fine with hardware that's 1/3 the price.
 
JB said:
Dizz, please post here when Apple releases a Mid-Tower PC with a quality power supply and case, extra memory slots, HD expansion, good and quiet cooling, a mid range processor and chipset, and standard memory for the same price as a comparable PC. They can't do it now because it will cannibalize their MacPro which is sold as their 'workstation' to people who think they need a Mac/OS-X, but would do fine with hardware that's 1/3 the price.
Click to expand...

(well if you ask for my opinion...)

I'll leave aside allegation that people who spend $2-4k on a workstation class PC today are clueless dupes. I'm sure those customers are savvy enough to know if something 1/3 the price would meet their needs - don't forget they are getting 8X the compute power, and in this segment time == money.

JB, I doubt Apple will ever compete in the mid-range tower market. They appear to be moving much more towards the computer-as-appliance model on the consumer side, minimizing moving parts, focussing on convenience of packaging, mobility, setup, etc. I also think they want to keep to their simple understandable 2x2 matrix line -- (desktop, portable) X (consumer, pro). They have decided that the consumer desktop quadrant is best served by an AIO. The only new ground they have broken recently is the Mac Book Air, which seems like a much more interesting space to be exploring, given the explosion of laptops.

I've spent some time on the Dell site recently ;), and you guys should be glad that CFB is helping you find the deals. Their lineup and branding is incredibly confusing: XPS, Inspiron, Vostro, Lattitude, Precision, OptiPlex, Dimension. While the Apple approach may leave out some segments (like low-end towers), I admire their ability to focus on a few things and do them well.

dizzy
 
I think my only allegation was that people who spend $1000-1500 for a computer thats worth $350 because they think it has some special qualities that it doesnt actually have...are, in fact, clueless dupes. People who spend $350 for a machine that meets their needs are pretty smart. Especially when the flat screen and the operating system cost about $350 to buy separately, and you get the rest of the computer, assembly and warranty for free.

But then some people pay 1.5% ER on their mutual funds, $3 for a cup of coffee and $500 for a mediocre vacuum cleaner and feel very good about their choices. If it makes you feel good to own it, you oughta buy it. Life is short.

But a cheap desktop bargain? Cant be had from Apple. And their cheapest arent any "better" for most people than a cheap Dell or HP machine. I'm willing to bet that 90% of the people who lay out $2-4k for a "workstation like" mac pro have absolutely no need for the horsepower and just want to look wealthy.

Not that theres anything wrong with that...
 
CFB, I am going to be in the market for a gaming machine this summer. I don't play first person shooters so top notch graphics performance isn't important, but even the slower paced games have some pretty heft requirements.

Is Tom's Hardware guide still a good source of info. Any other suggestions?
 
I read some stuff on THG every now and then, but I dont read them often enough to say if they cover what machines are best for what games.

You could PM me with which games you're interested in and I could see what might line up. Or just get a fast quad core with a decent graphics card like an 8600.

If your games/apps are super high processor demand, get one of these:
The Dell Online Store: Build Your System
and bump the graphics card to an 8600GT and maybe bump the disk a little bigger since those upgrades arent that expensive.

If your processor demands arent that big, it wants a lot of memory, and the 3d graphics demands are really minimal, then this:
The Dell Online Store: Build Your System

Pretty good CPU, lots of memory, and the x3100 isnt that bad for 2d performance and some lower end 3d stuff. Its actually a darn good piece of hardware, the driver support is just about 18 months dragging behind schedule. Very low power consumption. If you need more, bump to the ati 2400 pro.
 
cute fuzzy bunny said:
...90% of the people who lay out $2-4k for a "workstation like" mac pro have absolutely no need for the horsepower and just want to look wealthy.
Click to expand...

Actually the true Mac poser fashionista's are into the Mac Book Air these days. Brawny desktops are soooo last century.

Apropos todays date, and the subject, I leave you some humor on a lighter note:

(not a rickroll, etc...)

Dell's response to the launch of Apple's MacBook Air.

dizzy
 
This thread is the most helpful if it does not turn into a Mac vs. PC argument. Instead, it is about specific inexpensive systems people might be interested in buying. I suggest that we keep the thread to that topic. So, if someone has a specific Mac or a specific PC to recommend, go for it.
 
JohnDoe, if thats your real name...

Compaqs are HP's low end line. I think the HP branded machines are now decent again after a few years of sucking. The compaqs are a little less so.

Check this out:
The Dell Online Store: Build Your System

More memory, slightly smaller (but upgradeable) hard drive, includes a 19" flat screen...everything else seems about the same. Warranty on the compaq might be a mail-in, the dell is on-site. Mail in warranties on a desktop are a PITA, especially if they make you eat the shipping to them.
 
Of course that's my real name. :D

I like that Dell setup. I did have to add the Dual drives for $60. I assume there is tax and shipping so it's about $100 more. I'll have to think about it.

Thanks.
 
Tax is in any state that Dell operates in, which is many of them. Sometimes theres free shipping. This one gives you free shipping if you configured it over $399 which it sounds like you did.

And it even comes with SPEAKERS! Thats worth an extra $700 right there! ;)
 
cute fuzzy bunny said:
JohnDoe, if thats your real name...

Compaqs are HP's low end line. I think the HP branded machines are now decent again after a few years of sucking. The compaqs are a little less so.

Check this out:
The Dell Online Store: Build Your System

More memory, slightly smaller (but upgradeable) hard drive, includes a 19" flat screen...everything else seems about the same. Warranty on the compaq might be a mail-in, the dell is on-site. Mail in warranties on a desktop are a PITA, especially if they make you eat the shipping to them.
Click to expand...

CFB,

Did Dell scrap that config? Looks like they bumped up the processor and the base price by $70.
 
Could be. These sub $400 deals with the big screens are generally clearance/excess inventory sort of thing and are often available only for a few days or until a unit sales goal is hit.

Another cheap deal should be along in the next week and I'll post it when I see it. In the meanwhile, peruse the Dell Outlet. I just saw a handful of similar setups to the expired deal that were in the $250-300 range, but without a monitor.

Never had any trouble with dell refurbs or canceled orders. Many of the refurbs are machines people bought and returned without turning on, or after only using for a few days and decided they didnt like it. Nice part is the refurbs have any problems resolved and are run through another test and burn-in, so they've been checked twice. Just make sure you pick a current model and not something they havent sold in a year+. I've bought Dell refurbs and I know a few other folks here do, like Twaddle...with no bad results. I've also noticed that a lot of refurb machines are offered with better warranties and/or buying a 2-3 year extended warranty is really cheap on them.

Nice thing with the refurbs/canceled order units is that they ship the same day, and its usually free.

Also, make sure when buying one of these dell deals that you sign up for a Fatwallet.com fatcash account and link through their web site to buy the system, you'll get 1.5% cash back on refurbs and 3% on new systems from either Dell Home or Small Business. Add your own rewards credit card for the purchase and you can have another 4-4.5% off.

Dell also has a "DPA" credit card thing that gives you a percentage off or deferred credit by using it with a system purchase. I havent ever gotten one but if you're planning a large computer purchase or buying several, and arent concerned about yet-another-credit-card, it might be worth your while. Right now they're just offering a six months no pay/no interest on regular systems when you get an extended warranty and one year no pay/no interest on XPS systems.
 
Thanks!

I did notice they have a refurb (ordered new) that is only $289.

Can the DVD/RW, drive read and write CD's as well?
 
Yep. I've never seen a dvd burner that couldnt read and write cd's as well.

Note that the outlet systems dont include a monitor. And they go away pretty quick if they're a good deal, but they'll sit in your shopping cart for 15 minutes if you add them to it.
 
Yea, the one for $289 is gone already. lol

I already have a 19 inch crt so I don't need a new monitor.
 
Here's a potentially (shudder) useful post on how to get a deal on a Mac...

1. Used: Macs hold up their value reasonably well, but there are usually deals to be found on ebay or craigslist. The used market in Macs is very strong. A reasonable 1-2 year old iMac will be discounted 20-30% or more.

2. Flip it: Take advantage of the strong aftermarket in used Macs. Buy a new one, use it for 2 years, and sell it used on ebay for 80%. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. I've heard of people doing this continually for the last 7-8 years. Basically for about $100-200/year you can have your self a nice new mac forever!

3. Refurb Deals: The online Apple Store has a "refurb" section which offers 20-30% discounts on current models complete with 1 year of Apple Care. They also have occasional clearance sales on past models.

If you're really advanced, you could combine 2&3 (buy refurb and flip after a while) and maybe come out pretty close to even!

dizzy
 
I've quite successfully flipped 2-3 year old Toshiba, Dell and HP "cheapies" for more than half of what I paid, even though they'd received heavy use, and then reinvested the proceeds towards a new cheapie machine that was twice as powerful.

Which is why it pays to buy a first tier machine like Dell, HP, Toshiba, or IBM with a good cpu and a decent size hard drive, and measure that resale value against what you'll get for a second/third tier machine. You'll get more in 3 years for a core 2 duo intel Dell system than a 3rd tier celeron/sempron machine. Sort of like buying a toyota instead of a ford. Costs more, but you'll get more on resale.

I note that a lot of folks also like to buy and hold their computers for a long time. Makes sense there to pay a little more for a better quality machine.

Just not TOO much more.

John Doe - I usually peruse the outlet and if I see anything, I slap it into my cart and then go investigate whats in it. It'll fall out but you can put it right back in again if you're quick.

Dont be too fearful of the "scratch and dent" models either. I havent bought one but a good number of other people have and I havent heard anyone get anything badly banged up. Its usually a scrape on the side or some other minor cosmetics. I've seen a few desktops in the scratch and dent with reallllly ridiculously low prices. My bet is those were banged up a lot.

Worse comes to worse, you can send it back to them and get a refund.
 
I had to switch to the slimline model to get the same deal as yesterday. $465 with tax and free shipping.

Has everything the mini had yesterday except only 1g mem.

Not suppose to ship for a week so if something better comes along they said I can call in, cancel and reorder. They told me AAA discount didn't apply to business models and if it did, it would be off the starting price, not the discounted price. Sounded like a bunch of crap, though. I had to call in the order because online wasn't giving me free shipping.

Thanks for you help.

EDIT: I found my AAA discount code. I can get the Dell Inspiron 530 for $15 more. Has Vista, 2gb mem, 19" Digital monitor, 3yr onsite, and 160gb HD....Hmmm
 
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