Cheney Response on the War.

[chinaco]

No surprise. American citizens opinions do not count.

Citizens, If you do not buy into the official reason [-]propaganda[/-]... tough $h!t.

They have dropped any pretense of giving cr@p what anyone thinks.

Well, I guess it is best to have it out in the open. Since there is an election coming and all.


White House: Polls won't sway Iraq policy -- OrlandoSentinel.com

 

[Caroline]

So, according to this article, George Bush won't be considering polls saying we should get out of Iraq because he... POLLED survivors of those killed in action.

Interesting.

I've also heard it said that we shouldn't get out because "the troops are behind the mission."

Which leads me to the general question of whether everyone's vote should count the same, or whether some groups should be listened to more than others on this.

Just an idle, philosophical question here.

I also wonder how close we'd have to get to 100% against the war before our collective feelings DID matter, if they ever did at all.

 

[HFWR]

I thought we had him locked up in a bunker somewhere...

 

[chinaco]

I thought we had him locked up in a bunker somewhere...

No. He is busy holding hands with the Saudi Prince.... since GWB was rejected.

 

[haha]

Sorry, but I think it would be unbelievably stupid to try to make foreign policy on the basis of a poll.

We do have a binding poll; it's called national elections. In my opinion they roll around too often as it is.

The business about what the troops want to do is likely a justification, although from what I am told it appears to be true.

Maybe it means something too. They certainly know more about it and what the personal stakes are than we do sitting back here on our retired a$$es.

In any case we havea republican governement, not an ongoing plebiscite.

Ha

 

[HFWR]

In any case we have a republican governement, not an ongoing plebiscite.

Ha

The political equivalent of DMT?

Government should be like a portfolio: diversify to spread the risk, and rebalance when things get out of whack...

 

[chinaco]

Sorry, but I think it would be unbelievably stupid to try to make foreign policy on the basis of a poll.

I would tend to agree if my point of view were along a very narrow line of reasoning. But since we were mislead in the beginning with the WMD story... I am inclined to believe that the real sentiment is coming out.

They are finally saying what they mean. The Bush playbook is no longer needed... no reason to disguise it any longer as they approach the end of their term. From now on they will just say it like it is.

 

[FinallyRetired]

Come on guys, don't you listen to the news shows? This election is about race.

 

[Caroline]

...but I think it would be unbelievably stupid to try to make foreign policy on the basis of a poll.

I hate to disagree with you, Ha, but this isn't one poll. The majority of us, the people, have been against the war for some years now, and we all spoke pretty clearly during the last national election.

At the very least we deserve more than a vice prez who answers "So?" to a report on what we think.

 

[bright eyed]

at least he's finally being honest - their spin for the past few years became mind numbing...

 

[haha]

At the very least we deserve more than a vice prez who answers "So?" to a report on what we think.

Well, I am no apologist for the war. I felt it was a bad idea from day one.

Re the "So"-- wasn't that said to an audience in the Gulf? I took it as an attempt to assure them that we can be counted on. I think we tend to have an international reputation of leaving protectees and behind the scenes allies to go fish when our domestic political winds change.

Ha

 

[USK Coastie]

This thread is like the debate on global warming. Just because the "consensus" is xx% in favor of a position doesn't make it correct.

The earth has been cooling over the last couple of years at least by all scientific measure yet we'll still debate the warming issue for years to come.

Same with the war; significant progress on the military side in the last few months but not as much progress on the political side as we'd like. But to heae the newsies and the Dems talk about it, we've lost the war.

However once he military situation turned the newsies and the Dems stopped talking about the issue leaving most people with the impression that we are loosing. It doesn't fit their view of the world so they don't acknowledge it.

The general population was not pleased with Lincoln about the civil war either. Should he have bowed to the "consensus"?

As for global warming I would like to see Al Gore sued for fraud for selling carbon credits. Then we can have an open debate on the evidence of global warming. All of the evidence not just one side or the other.

 

[Dawg52]

Simply put, Cheney is an arrogant SOB. Were there now so I don't believe we can just pull all our troops out at one time either but if Cheney had his way, we would be there forever. Weapons of mass destruction? What a joke.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

is cheney still vice president? wow. i haven't heard that name in long time.

 

[clifp]

If Lincoln had paid attention to public opinion in 1863 or to the election results of 1862, the Union would have withdrawn its forces and some board members might be owned by other board members.

 

[chinaco]

The point is not about polls. It typical of the lack of regard that the bush administration has for the American public.

And of course, references to Lincoln and the Civil war are a bit of a stretch... Bush invade in Iraq (his ax to grind with Sadam) and Lincoln sticking with a war to preserve the Union are hardly the same comparison.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

They counted. People voted them into office. Deal with it.

 

[haha]

They counted. People voted them into office. Deal with it.

My sentiments too. All the expert Board Member Monday Morning QBs can't accomplish anything. As private citizens we actually know almost nothing. Foreign policy, including war, cannot be conducted in public.

Did your parents ask you if they should take you to the doctor to get your shots?

Ha

 

[chinaco]

We are dealing with it and paying for it. And will be for a couple of decades.

 

[Caroline]

They counted. People voted them into office. Deal with it.

Alas! If we stop sharing thoughts, opinions, and results, how will we as individuals or as a people learn and grow?

They used to call WWI the "war to end all wars." Didn't quite turn out that way but I still have to hope that someday one of these terrible wars WILL be the last.

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Alas! If we stop sharing thoughts, opinions, and results, how will we as individuals or as a people learn and grow?

They used to call WWI the "war to end all wars." Didn't quite turn out that way but I still have to hope that someday one of these terrible wars WILL be the last.

Never. People will find a reason to fight one reason or another. Id like to be on the side with the biggest guns.

 

[Caroline]

Sigh...

 

[samclem]

They used to call WWI the "war to end all wars." Didn't quite turn out that way but I still have to hope that someday one of these terrible wars WILL be the last.

That would be nice. It's interesting, though that to have a "war" requires that both sides, on some level, believe that war is better than the alternative to war. So, in the abstract, to hope for an end to war, in itself, is to doom these people/nations to whatever other fate (servitude, enslavement, death, pillage of their things, whatever) that they are hoping to avoid by engaging in war.
To end wars and have a better world, we'd have to eliminate these other, worse, possibilities. Until that time, war is better than the alternatives (or nations wouldn't be doing it). And until that time, it will always be much better to be on the wining side of these wars.

 

[haha]

Alas! If we stop sharing thoughts, opinions, and results, how will we as individuals or as a people learn and grow?

They used to call WWI the "war to end all wars." Didn't quite turn out that way but I still have to hope that someday one of these terrible wars WILL be the last.

It undoubtedly will be. But that won't be a good thing. Maybe the ants will survive.

Ha

 

[Notmuchlonger]

Ya Id like to see us all living together in harmony or at least not killing each other. But that isnt happening in my lifetime. Sorry, Id rather not be a victim.