Done with Bogleheads ... it's a cult

[njhowie]

Had enough with BH. Talk about indoctrination. I've been to a couple Amway (offshoot) meetings in my younger, more curious days, so I know a cult when I see one, and BH certainly is one.

Member posts a topic asking about bonds and interest rates. I reply with something referencing the Fed, and post gets removed for "Economic trolling". Typical/acceptable reply is what Vanguard fund to put money into. It doesn't answer the question, or provide the information poster was asking for, but what does that matter? Forget the facts, Bogle-centric replies only please.

Post something which does not follow BH teachings, and moderator steps in advising you that "This site follows the teachings of Bogle...etc.". For the Mormons it's Joseph Smith. For Peoples Temple/Jonestown it was Jim Jones. For the Branch Davidians it was David Koresh. For Bogleheads, well, you know.

Newbies/Neophytes regale in the limelight being the first to reply with common BH phrases/brainwashing. Point out some BH tenet which might not be wonderful and a more senior member with tens of thousands of posts will step in to put you in your place..."No, you cannot purchase individual bonds and be successful, only bond funds". Having an individual thought is unacceptable if it deviates from or is in conflict with anything Bogle said in his lifetime. Watch out if you point out something Bogle said which conflicted with something else he said earlier in his life.

I can appreciate board moderation and rules that sites might have. However, I think there's a point where it goes too far and comes down to censorship. When facts or individual ideas are met with posts being removed because they do not support the cult values - that's censorship. They are free to censor if they like. And I don't have to participate in or contribute to their site.

Done venting.

 

[travelover]

Well, it is against the rules here to post about venting or moderation, so get ready to duck.

 

[njhowie]

Well, it is against the rules here to post about venting or moderation, so get ready to duck.

I figured since it was "Other topics" it might be ok...and it is not venting about or moderation of this site.

 

[MichaelB]

Well, our community rules don’t apply to policy and rules of other forums.

 

[COcheesehead]

I asked to have my account removed a few years ago. I was berated for buying individual bonds. That was too risky.

 

[aja8888]

I no longer go the the BH site either.

I posted something "off kilter" about the Vanguard BND fund and got sent to stand in the corner with no dinner that night. Once was enough.

Very rich folks there but many lack "thinking outside of the Bogle box".

 

[Turbo29]

I'm just happy that some of the Boglehead moderators aren't running my HOA.

 

[USGrant1962]

What does your IPS say?

 

[NW-Bound]

I knew about indexing, Vanguard, and Bogle long before I heard of the BH forum.

In fact, I learned of the BH forum when it was mentioned on this FIRE forum.

Went there to browse for a couple of hours, and ran away without registering. This was perhaps 15 years ago, and I have not visited the site since.

There's no point in saying anything contradictory to their norm. Would you go inside a mosque, a synagogue, a church, a Buddhist temple, and challenge people's belief? If you don't agree with them, you stay out.

 

[pb4uski]

I never got into BH but it sounds like you are required to check your first amendment rights at the door. No thank you.

BTW, how are bond funds working out for those BH guys... MINUS 8.21% YTD. What do they think about I bonds or CDs... OMG!

I've had it with Vanguard too.

 

[sengsational]

I find it interesting that the mods at BH don't seem to allow the individual bond alternative, at least according to a few posts, above. I've been over there a few times, and managed to stay out of the penalty box. Their forum, their rules. At least if the offending posts are forbidden by rules. I wonder if the membership over there has proven to be untrustworthy of civil discourse on the topic, and so it's off the table for that reason. BH does seem a bit more of a religion than some other gatherings of investors.

 

[Turbo29]

I am the Ally thy bank, thou shalt have no other banks before me.

 

[Qs Laptop]

<hears knocking on door>

<opens door>

"Hello, I'm from the Boglehead Forum and I'm wondering if you'd like to discuss investing?"

"Yes, I am a moderately experienced investor. What do you want to discuss?"

"I'm wondering if you've accepted the Three Fund Simple Portfolio into your heart? Have you asked it to save you from your investing sins? Do you follow its precepts?"

<closes door>

 

[punkinhead]

I haven't seen any restrictions there on posting about individual bonds. There is lots of talk about ibonds in particular.

 

[aja8888]

I haven't seen any restrictions there on posting about individual bonds. There is lots of talk about ibonds in particular.

iBonds are in effect treasuries. Not the same as corporate or municipal bonds.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I asked to have my account removed a few years ago. I was berated for buying individual bonds. That was too risky.

I was berated for posting a link to the Social Security Trustee's report, and they didn't just delete parts of my post, the moderator actually edited it and changed what I wrote. So I no longer post there either. There's no point.

So, um, yeah. Cult is the right word. Welcome to all the other "suppressives" who post here instead.

To the mods here - Thanks for all you do and your very polite and reasonable moderation.

 

[OldShooter]

I like the BH philosophy and I like and recommend Taylor Larimore's books, but I find the forums to be too tedious to be interesting. TLDR in most cases. I haven't hung around enough to see their thought police in action but am sorry to hear of it.

 

[COcheesehead]

I find it interesting that the mods at BH don't seem to allow the individual bond alternative, at least according to a few posts, above. I've been over there a few times, and managed to stay out of the penalty box. Their forum, their rules. At least if the offending posts are forbidden by rules. I wonder if the membership over there has proven to be untrustworthy of civil discourse on the topic, and so it's off the table for that reason. BH does seem a bit more of a religion than some other gatherings of investors.

The issue with individual bonds as I posted was not the mods, but the members. It made their heads explode. OMG, the risk!

 

[Freedom56]

I had never heard of Bogleheads until I joined the ER forum. As a 100% fixed income investor, I had absolutely no reason to even consider Vanguard funds. I think they are horribly misguided with respect to fixed income investing and Vanguard bond funds. Most don't understand that bonds funds are not bonds. They talk about bond indexes without realizing that they are fictitious benchmarks with the sole purpose of scamming bond fund investors. These Bogleheads are seduced by the low management fees without realizing all the hidden fees they are paying when the funds trade bonds. But if not for all those passive bond ETFs switching to "buy high sell low" mode every time the Fed tightens, we would not have those wonderful buying opportunities in the corporate bond universe. For that I am eternally grateful to all the Bogleheads. So let the cult live on and grow. Their loss is my gain.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I had never heard of Bogleheads until I joined ER forum. As a 100% fixed income investor, I had absolutely no reason to even consider Vanguard funds. I think they are horribly misguided with respect to fixed income investing and Vanguard bond funds. Most don't understand that bonds funds are not bonds. They talk about bond indexes without realizing that they are fictitious benchmarks with the sole purpose of scamming bond fund investors. These Bogleheads are seduced by the low management fees without realizing all the hidden fees they are paying when the funds trade bonds. But if not for all those passive bond ETFs switching to "buy high sell low" mode every time the Fed tightens, we would not have those wonderful buying opportunities in the corporate bond universe For that I am eternally grateful to all the Bogleheads. So let the cult live on and grow. Their loss is my gain.

I would add they also don't understand the difference between bond funds and stock funds. They talk about buying "bonds on sale" when their bond funds take a dive. While that concept works for stocks, it make no sense whatsoever with a bond fund. You have done a very good job of pointing that out succinctly in your recent posts on the yields and NAV risks with bond funds compared to the yields on CDs and Treasuries with no default or principal risk.

 

[Time2]

Well, our community rules don’t apply to policy and rules of other forums.

So we can give them face punches if we want!

 

[Time2]

I asked to have my account removed a few years ago. I was berated for buying individual bonds. That was too risky.

Did you mention you can sell bonds at face value at maturity, whereas the bond fund continues to be priced according present interest rates.

 

[W2R]

I like the Bogleheads forum, at least the way it was when I was last there. I got some good, solid advice over there regarding my portfolio when Bogleheads was new and I was a novice investor.

My portfolio has been all set up for a very long time by now, and I don't really go back there often any more. Maybe I should - - maybe they have changed? Surely not? But anyway, I have no venom to add to this thread because I am grateful that they helped me out when I needed it. I regard myself and my investing approach as 3/4 Boglehead.

That said, at this point in my life, I am more interested in the casual camaraderie and lighter topics that we all enjoy here on the ER Forum.

 

[Time2]

<hears knocking on door>

<opens door>

"Hello, I'm from the Boglehead Forum and I'm wondering if you'd like to discuss investing?"

"Yes, I am a moderately experienced investor. What do you want to discuss?"

"I'm wondering if you've accepted the Three Fund Simple Portfolio into your heart? Have you asked it to save you from your investing sins? Do you follow its precepts?"

<closes door>

Very good! That's worth putting on Bogleheads to see if they are true believers or figure out it's satire.

 

[SevenUp]

I find it interesting that the mods at BH don't seem to allow the individual bond alternative, at least according to a few posts, above.

They do have a wiki article on Individual bonds vs a bond fund. Don't know enough about the topic to assess its validity.

In general, the wiki they support is a good resource for personal finance things.