Doorbell (sort of) not working

[mystang52]

For many years we had the good ol' fashioned doorbell. A few years ago got a Ring, and all seemed fine. Bear with me, my memory is hazy here: About a year ago I replaced the outlet cover that holds the transformer to the electrical box (the old one was never the right size). I may or may not have replaced the transformer itself.
Anyway, the Ring doorbell itself works with that familiar chime, but we also used to hear our original doorbell [which we never disconnected]. It wasn't until we got a notice from Ring that our battery is running low that we learned apparently Ring has been running solely on battery, not the wired connection. It was only this notification that we realized we were no longer hearing the original doorbell as well.
I checked all the electrical connections and they are tight. I even reversed the wires from the transformer to the electrical box to see if that would do anything, but no-go.
DW wants me to call electrician. Might it be the transformer?

 

[braumeister]

See if you can find the installation instructions for your Ring. Either on paper or you can most likely download them from the website. As I recall, they were not written in the most user friendly fashion, and you had to follow them exactly.

 

[Yipper]

Definitely sounds like the transformer... you should be able to take a multimeter and test the output voltage to see if it's working. Typical old-fashioned doorbells are really low voltage DC.

 

[latexman]

What does your multimeter or cheap test light say? Do you have the juice on the 120 V side? Do you have the juice on the 12/6 V side?

Btw, our Ring installer was not allowed contracturally to hook our power to the Ring. Damn, lawyers.

 

[ERD50]

Definitely sounds like the transformer... you should be able to take a multimeter and test the output voltage to see if it's working. Typical old-fashioned doorbells are really low voltage DC.

Old doorbells are AC, typically ~ 12~16~24 volts (AC-RMS).

From the horse's mouth.

https://support.ring.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000081206-Installing-your-Hardwired-Transformer-Kit

Be sure you have a proper replacement transformer: We recommend a transformer unit with at least 16 volts AC and at least 30 volt-amps.

-ERD50

 

[Sunset]

I know a really old guy with a busted but sometimes working door bell button.
I have a spare so I am thinking to replace his.
This thread made me wonder about the voltage as I thought they were DC low voltage.
I'm glad I looked as I read this:
"
Electrical Safety

If you need to work on a doorbell, or test one of its component parts, the voltage should be low enough to prevent injury. However, the caveat remains -- always check the device with a volt meter or other electrical tester designed for checking voltage before proceeding. A failed transformer does not step down voltage, so the output could be the same 120 volts that enters the transformer. "


I'll be sure to test the voltage to be sure !

 

[OldShooter]

... A failed transformer does not step down voltage, so the output could be the same 120 volts that enters the transformer. ...

In an electronics lifetime, beginning with a ham radio license in junior high school and a commercial radiotelephone license in high school, I have never heard of or seen a transformer that failed that way. In fact I can’t offhand think of a single-point failure mechanism that would do what is described. And if 120vac were present, it would almost certainly destroy the doorbell and probably the pushbutton the first time the button was pressed.

It would never occur to me to check the voltage across the pushbutton if it would make the bell ring. Nor would I bother trying to figure out which circuit breaker controlled it.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I turn off the circuit breaker to the doorbell wiring before messing with it.

 

[mn54]

I turn off the circuit breaker to the doorbell wiring before messing with it.

+1

i installed a eufy video doorbell and the first thing to do was turn off the power to the doorbell. on some video doorbells the transformer is not putting out enough power and needs to be changed.

 

[Gumby]

May not be applicable to your situation at all, but many years ago, our old fashioned doorbell stopped working. I replaced the transformer and it still didn't work. Turns out the wire leading to the doorbell was cut when we had our hardwood floors sanded and refinished. (our house was built in 1857, so there are many weird things about it) Replaced the wire and all was good. Check the voltage at the doorbell to see if you're getting power at all.

 

[street]

Transformer needs to be replaced.

Check voltage on low side of transformer and should be ~16V AC.

 

[ERD50]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset View Post
... A failed transformer does not step down voltage, so the output could be the same 120 volts that enters the transformer. ...

In an electronics lifetime, beginning with a ham radio license in junior high school and a commercial radiotelephone license in high school, I have never heard of or seen a transformer that failed that way. In fact I can’t offhand think of a single-point failure mechanism that would do what is described. And if 120vac were present, it would almost certainly destroy the doorbell and probably the pushbutton the first time the button was pressed.

It would never occur to me to check the voltage across the pushbutton if it would make the bell ring. Nor would I bother trying to figure out which circuit breaker controlled it.

While I agree that a primary to secondary short is rare (I don't think I've ever seen one, but I haven't dealt with many failed transformers period), I also would say that you certainly can't rule it out. And when dealing with line voltage, you need to be careful, you may not get a 2nd chance. But as mentioned, you really should cut power to the transformer anyhow, or for best safety, verify there is no 120V to ground at the doorbell.

You wouldn't necessarily have 120V across the doorbell circuit. If the secondary was shorted to the primary, it could 'float' at 120 V, w/o having 120 V across it.

Even if it did destroy the switch and/or bell - someone might touch a contact before realizing that. Yes, very, very unlikely, but it's still good to check.

-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

Transformer needs to be replaced.

Check voltage on low side of transformer and should be ~16V AC.

Could be a cut/damaged wire, just as Gumby found in the prior post.

-ERD50

 

[street]

^ sure could be. Be easy to isolate the problem with a few voltage measurements. First check to make sure your breaker at breaker box to make sure you have correct voltage, and that breaker isn't tripped. Then transformer is next for a voltage check than continue to door switch than to chime or bell.

 

[JP.mpls]

I purchased my home 35 years ago.
The doorbell didn't work, and I decided I like it that way.
Many solicitors have stood on my doorstep operating the doorbell to nowhere, while I rest comfortably in my home.
Just another option.
JP

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

I had to upgrade to a new transformer when I installed my knockoff video doorbell in 2018. The original worked but intermittently so it was unreliable. That doorbell is still in place and works fine except for an unacceptable delay in notifications which is why I'm replacing it. At that time I found it was cheaper to buy a new doorbell kit than just the transformer, it cost me $16 for a Lowes brand Utilitech.
My new 2021 wired ring doorbell which I have not installed yet, will only ring on a Ring device like an Echo which I already have, or a Ring Chime which can be purchased for an additional fee. You have to bypass the original door chime with jumpers so it will no longer work, if you don't it will burn up.
Needless to say this has upset a lot of people that don't read product descriptions or reviews and didn't bother to read the product installation instructions.

 

[OldShooter]

Ring is an invasive species that people unwittingly bring into their homes. I learned this the hard way.

They have a nice battery-operated motion controlled floodlight, so I bought one and a "Bridge" device that I thought was a controller for the floodlight. First, I could not configure the floodlight unless I gave Ring my home address, then (long story short) Ring proceeded without permission to set up its own wireless network in my house and to connect it to the internet and to their servers via my network. Adding devices like the doorbell will result in your entire home configuration, including your home address, being stored at Ring together with the video from all cameras. It will all be there, a monster prize for a hacker. If you buy a subscription to their services they will also have your credit card number. Quite nice for a potential thief, who can case the joint remotely looking for good stuff and then arrange his visit to be when you are not home. And, of course, Ring can disable any of your device functions any time they choose to do so. Like when they decide to make a subscription mandatory. Finally, Ring is owned by Amazon. What could possibly go wrong?

The bridge device is long ago gone with the garbage man and the orphaned floodlight can no longer reach the mother ship. And I will never consider a Ring device again.

 

[mystang52]

OP here with update. Bought a new transformer, connected it, still no-go for the original wired doorbell. Futilely tried various configurations of the wiring. Then, DW called Ring Technical.
Now committing my own thread creep, wow I hate "customer service." The supposed technician was clearly reading from a playbook, spoke in barely understandable English and simply ignored everything I said. I finally told her she was useless and hung up on her.
Doorbell works fine off of the Ring battery so as long as I periodically recharge it there is no crisis. But DW wants the wired doorbell working as well, so I called our electrician.

 

[Lakedog]

But DW wants the wired doorbell working as well, so I called our electrician.

No experience with Ring but for the original doorbell, the chime might be the problem. My doorbell never worked in my current home even though the house is only 6 years old (moved here a few months ago). I decided earlier this week to try to get the doorbell working.

After removing the Nutone chime cover (on a wall in the hallway) I noticed that the plunger/spring for the side used by the front doorbell was stuck. Since I could not free the plunger, I switched the wiring to the rear door side (the unit has different tones for front and rear doors but I have no rear doorbell). Now my doorbell works fine (single tone due to using the rear door setup). Amazon has the same chime unit for a few bucks so replacement would be very simple but I really only have one doorbell so don't need the two tone system.

 

[Telly]

After removing the Nutone chime cover (on a wall in the hallway) I noticed that the plunger/spring for the side used by the front doorbell was stuck. Since I could not free the plunger, I switched the wiring to the rear door side (the unit has different tones for front and rear doors but I have no rear doorbell). Now my doorbell works fine (single tone due to using the rear door setup). Amazon has the same chime unit for a few bucks so replacement would be very simple but I really only have one doorbell so don't need the two tone system.

Often, the back-door's single-tone is created by the second solenoid's plunger either having a rubber silencer tip, or a rubber-covered plastic stopper arm, either prevents the back-door plunger from hitting the second metal gong bar. Removing the rubber tip, or breaking off the plastic arm, will allow the back-door plunger to hit both gongs, just like the front did. Take a look at it, you may be able to make the nice bing-bong sound out of it yet... instead of the "There's a tradesman at the back door" sound that the hired help should answer.

 

[Lakedog]

Often, the back-door's single-tone is created by the second solenoid's plunger either having a rubber silencer tip, or a rubber-covered plastic stopper arm, either prevents the back-door plunger from hitting the second metal gong bar. Removing the rubber tip, or breaking off the plastic arm, will allow the back-door plunger to hit both gongs, just like the front did. Take a look at it, you may be able to make the nice bing-bong sound out of it yet... instead of the "There's a tradesman at the back door" sound that the hired help should answer.

Thanks, I did try that by breaking off the plastic arm with the rubber silencer but the plastic on the top of the plunger was shaped a bit differently from the one for the front door so it does not quite reach the top gong even without the silencer to stop it. Guess I will have to live with the single tone or replace the chime.