Drama of having a new A/C installed

[Breedlove]

Something to think about with a ducted system you might have the system set for 70 degrees now the cold air must travel through the vents and it is common to have a 10 to 12 degree drop when it exits the A/C vent . I know this because we just sold a house and the home inspector went around to each vent and it varied quite a bit but within the 12 degrees . With the mini the true temp coming out of the inside unit is exact because it does not have to travel through the ductwork.

 

[ExitLeft]

I have 2x20 yo forced air builder-grade systems (York) that will probably need replacing soon. In getting a couple estimates, the installers have commented that variable speed systems are less reliable/need repairs. I don't know if that comment is accurate or driven by some motivation? I would prefer variable speed in my attic, because my current system wakes me up every time it kicks on. It's just a 2-ton up there though (not sure if size matters re:variable or not).

 

[Chuckanut]

I am sold on the MS systems LG has one that a picture frame is your inside unit.

Now that is interesting I don't have much room for the traditional inside unit.

 

[meierlde]

I have 2x20 yo forced air builder-grade systems (York) that will probably need replacing soon. In getting a couple estimates, the installers have commented that variable speed systems are less reliable/need repairs. I don't know if that comment is accurate or driven by some motivation? I would prefer variable speed in my attic, because my current system wakes me up every time it kicks on. It's just a 2-ton up there though (not sure if size matters re:variable or not).

I suspect that any system today will have an electrically commutated motor which is more failure prone than the older motors (it takes the AC to DC to Ac to give a constant air volume in low end systems, and the variable speed for higher end systems). I have 3 of the lower end kind and 2 have failed in 9 years, but the flip side of it is that leaving the blower on draws less than 100 watts compared to a couple hundred watts for the older blowers. It appears that all systems starting next july will have to have this kind of motor: Due to energy savings:
https://www.achrnews.com/articles/136459-fer-standards-require-electronically-commutated-motors

 

[Breedlove]

Go ductless ! Mini Splits the way of the future I got a Traine 2 ton 3400.00 turn key installed . Single head , I keep all doors open in my house so the air goes through the whole house .

 

[samclem]

I keep all doors open in my house so the air goes through the whole house .

Yep, that's pretty much what one has to do with a mini-split system, unless a LOT of expensive control heads are purchased (for each bedroom, large common area/room, kitchen, etc). Some strategically placed box fans can keep the house almost as comfortable as a house with regular ducts. And with all the doors open, the noise from the fans can be a plus, providing some "cover" of the sounds from formerly private rooms.

Joshing aside, I hope you enjoy your new "way of the future."

 

[jazz4cash]

I have 2x20 yo forced air builder-grade systems (York) that will probably need replacing soon. In getting a couple estimates, the installers have commented that variable speed systems are less reliable/need repairs. I don't know if that comment is accurate or driven by some motivation? I would prefer variable speed in my attic, because my current system wakes me up every time it kicks on. It's just a 2-ton up there though (not sure if size matters re:variable or not).

Besides variable speed and multi speed fans there are also soft start blowers that ramp up to full speed more quietly than your builder grade system. I

 

[ERD50]

I have 2x20 yo forced air builder-grade systems (York) that will probably need replacing soon. In getting a couple estimates, the installers have commented that variable speed systems are less reliable/need repairs. I don't know if that comment is accurate or driven by some motivation? I would prefer variable speed in my attic, because my current system wakes me up every time it kicks on. It's just a 2-ton up there though (not sure if size matters re:variable or not).

I don't know if variable speed are less reliable or not, and didn't find much in my searches. I'd be interested to see some data.

Though VSP are definitely more $. I hesitated because of that, both initial cost, and then any needed repair. But my final decision was based on comfort, a VSP can provide better humidity control with the AC in our midwest climate, and along with 2-stage compressor, can still provide max cooling if we need it and have guests on a hot day.

And the circulate mode is nice, I have it set to run at least 30 minutes out of every hour ( no added run time if the AC is already running 1/2 the time), and it runs at a lower speed/power in that mode.

Though I'm not so focused on reducing run time costs, they are lower with VSP, so any extra initial or repair costs over the life of the unit will be at least somewhat offset by the lower utility bills.

So while I was skeptical, I'm really glad we got the Variable speed air handler, and 2 stage compressor. But it depends on your needs/conditions. A minor plus is the very, very soft start for heat. In fact, DW thought the furnace was broken - she turned up the heat, and didn't hear the fan come on. I had to explain how this all worked now.

-ERD50

 

[ncbill]

I have 2x20 yo forced air builder-grade systems (York) that will probably need replacing soon. In getting a couple estimates, the installers have commented that variable speed systems are less reliable/need repairs. I don't know if that comment is accurate or driven by some motivation? I would prefer variable speed in my attic, because my current system wakes me up every time it kicks on. It's just a 2-ton up there though (not sure if size matters re:variable or not).

Or replace it with a system using an ECM blower that has a 10 year parts warranty and add the 10 year labor warranty as well.

I did that when I picked a Trane heat pump to replace the original builder-grade A/C, though I didn't pick an ECM blower, though I probably should have.

 

[ExitLeft]

Go ductless ! Mini Splits the way of the future I got a Traine 2 ton 3400.00 turn key installed . Single head , I keep all doors open in my house so the air goes through the whole house .

I guess I could install a mini split near my return (or one by each return) and just run the current system's fan whenever I wanted to distribute the air. Hmm. I wonder if that makes any sense... My quotes for replacing my systems were: $8,700 for a 2-stage XV80/ XR16 Trane upstairs and $9,800 for 1st floor.

 

[ExitLeft]

Or replace it with a system using an ECM blower that has a 10 year parts warranty and add the 10 year labor warranty as well.

Funny story, my blower died in 2013. I found a replacement on Amazon for $164 and installed it myself. Running like a charm ever since. Yes, I'm cheap! (that's why I'm here ) Maybe I could rewire it to use an ECM... but Im not that smart.

 

[DebInOH]

HVAC

Just bought a 2.5 Ton 13 Seer Goodman Air Conditioner plus the additional coil. Plan to have it installed by a local guy $1,083.00 isn't bad so far...

 

[samclem]

Just bought a 2.5 Ton 13 Seer Goodman Air Conditioner plus the additional coil. Plan to have it installed by a local guy $1,083.00 isn't bad so far...

That's a good price. I just bought similar equipment and a 35' lineset plus the usual little bits, I paid about $1400. I did the ductwork/tin myself, wired up everything, and hired a local HVAC guy to do the hard-core HVAC stuff (hooking up the lines and the king for proper function). He was here for 3 or 4 hours and charged me $300, which I thought was very fair.
Be sure your tech:
1) Does all the brazing with nitrogen in and flowing through the lines. Brazing with air/oxygen in the lines will result in a black residue inside the lines/fittings that will eventually flake off and clog the orifice or damage the equipment.
2) Tests the connections and coil under slight positive nitrogen pressure.
3) Has a good pump with new oil, and evacuates the system to 500 microns or less, and waits long enough to assure it stays there before adding the refrigerant.
4) Gives you a receipt with his business address and phone number so you can register for the Goodman warranty.
My system is working great, I saved a lot of money, and (priceless) I know it was done right. Good luck!

 

[ExitLeft]

How do you buy the equipment yourself? Online? The local places won't sell to homeowners, in my experience. How did you find the HVAC guys willing to install without selling the equipment? Angie's list or just calling the companies that normally sell the full systems installed? Thanks for info!

 

[meierlde]

Funny story, my blower died in 2013. I found a replacement on Amazon for $164 and installed it myself. Running like a charm ever since. Yes, I'm cheap! (that's why I'm here ) Maybe I could rewire it to use an ECM... but Im not that smart.

Note that one can also buy an ECM blower on amazon for about 1/2 the price of an OEM ECM blower (OEMS run in the $800 neighborhood for a low end unit, but almost all air handlers use them to meet seer requirements)
Note if buying a multispeed system since there is more electronics, it might make sense to put surge protectors in the disconnects for the outdoor units. In particular with all the electronics in an inverter compressor model. This is mainly to avoid lightning effects.

 

[samclem]

How do you buy the equipment yourself? Online? The local places won't sell to homeowners, in my experience. How did you find the HVAC guys willing to install without selling the equipment? Angie's list or just calling the companies that normally sell the full systems installed?

Yes, you buy the equipment online, there are several companies that sell this way. I bought from this company twice and will be doing it again soon, I have had good results and help when I needed it. They do offer a service to help you find someone to do the final hookup and checkout, but that is really up to you. Again, there are other companies that sell equipment to consumers, too.


Many local HVAC supply companies may be unwilling to sell any parts to DIYers (some sort of cartel/guild/secret handshake arrangement they have with the HVAC pros. "Protect the channel" they say). As far as installation, don't bother calling a large company that heavily advertises, call some small operators and let them know exactly what you need. You'll eventually find one that is willing or even eager to work with you.

 

[samclem]

How did you find the HVAC guys willing to install without selling the equipment? Angie's list or just calling the companies that normally sell the full systems installed?

Another thing-- Once you've located the equipment you want to buy and get prices, I'd search for the HVAC pro before actually purchasing any air conditioning equipment. After all, if you >can't< get that help, you can't do the project. When you talk to a few techs and find some who are willing to do what you need, you can also tell them the price you are paying for the components and offer to buy through them instead if they can meet that price. The HVAC installers near me couldn't buy from the authorized local warehouse for the price I got online, so I bought online myself. If they can get the it cheaper, then I'd be happy to have them do it and let them keep the difference.
My guess is that the locally-warehoused equipment costs more because of those unavoidable costs of storing equipment near retail customers. They need to get equipment to people fast, and I don't know if the HVAC guys are particularly price sensitive--they and the customer will pay more for convenience and rapid availability.

 

[Texas Proud]

I know I had put this down in another thread, but one thing I would check if you buy your own system is the dimensions....


I bought a new high SEER variable speed and the outside unit is HUGE... the rolled it up to my gate and it would not fit.. not even close...


They had to take down a section of my fence to roll it in...

 

[Ginny]

We just bought a new (to us) home and a home warranty. One of the two AC's went out, and Old Republic covered all but $200! One bid we got was $5,400. We were shocked! We will be renewing the home warranty if they let us next year.

 

[samclem]

We just bought a new (to us) home and a home warranty. One of the two AC's went out, and Old Republic covered all but $200! One bid we got was $5,400. We were shocked! We will be renewing the home warranty if they let us next year.

Oh, have no worries, they will surely let you renew.
Sometimes it works out for a homeowner, but obviously on balance these plans are not a good deal (else the "warranty" company woud not stay in business). My BIL had a huge problem getting their AC fixed under a home warranty, they just kept sending incompetent people who's only goal was to wear down the customer.

 

[Finance Dave]

Mine is not a heat pump.... I have gas heat and it is cheaper than a heat pump from what I understand... however, there are many articles that say the opposite....

I am a licensed home inspector.

Heat pumps are relatively efficient. I'd say on a scale of 1-10, if you put a high-efficiency gas furnace at 10 and a medium efficiency furnace at 6, the heat pump is about a 9. However, there are many other factors to consider:

1) Heat pump efficiency depends on the weather in your area. You see, a heat pump has an "auxiliary" heat system that automatically comes on and supplements heating when the temps get below a certain temp...usually around 35F. If you live in Minnesota, your auxiliary heat would be running all the time!

2) The auxiliary heat can be gas, but more often it is electric. Think of the electric auxiliary heat as a large hair dryer. It is costly to run these electric heaters. So if you live in a temperate climate such as Tennessee, Kentucky, etc....they are a reasonable alternative. Or if you live in any climate and have gas auxiliary heat, then not so much of an issue. I live in southern Indiana and I'd estimate 15% of the houses I inspect have heat pumps.

3) Heat pumps have an installation advantage...they do not require a flue unless you have gas auxiliary heat. There is no combustion...the heat operates on a refrigeration cycle.

4) Some people think heat pumps feel "drafty". The air coming out of the registers on the normal heat cycle is about 95F compared to 110F for a gas furnace. Some people don't like them for this reason. Since the heat pump has lower output temps, it has to run more...so they don't last as long. Typical lifespan is 10-15 years versus 15-25 for a gas furnace.

Hope that gives you some things to think about.