forgery

[charlie]

I was a little too old for Vietnam, but I did not know
anybody, outside of career military, who wanted to
go. Many of my younger associates "escaped" via
college and graduate school and were glad to do so.
I was a young manager in the defense industry at
the time and made several trips to draft boards to
"save" young engineers on critical jobs. I rationalized my own lack of service by the knowledge that I helped develop the smart bombs and terrain following radar systems that gave our people the edge.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

[johnblake]

My father completed college, medical school, and then was drafted. I don't understand why he didn't get deferments like Cheney and others. My mom tells me that his whole medical school class was drafted.

The yardstick I use to justify war is: a) would I go, and b) would I encourage my children to go. If the answers are no, and no, the cause isn't justified.

 

[Whakamole]

How many of you criticizing Bush for joining the National Guard voted for Clinton?

Just curious.

 

[John Galt]

Off the question a bit. Obviously I didn't vote for Clinton
but never slammed him for a lack of military record
or patriotism. You see, I can accept almost any sort of lapse or personal failing, mistakes in judgement, etc.
as long as the person's basic politics line up with mine.
Since almost no one actually does line up with me,
out here on the "fringe" of political thought, I am reduced to support of whoever comes closest. This year
it is Bush. If the Libertarians ever fielded
an electable candidate, I might register and vote again.
Otherwise, the ballot box has seen the last of me.

John Galt

 

[johnblake]

How many of you criticizing Bush for joining the National Guard voted for Clinton?
Just curious.

Good question, but I didn't catch anyone here criticizing Bush for getting into tang. On a scale from 1 (least) - 5 (most important) I give this issue a 1. Why isn't it a 0 (like it was for Clinton)? Very simple, Clinton was against the Vietnam war, Bush was for the war. In addition, Bush's campaign emphasizes 'values' and 'strong leadership'. Yet, his success and accomplishments (school, Vietnam, business, politics) are a result of family connections, not hard work, and intelligence. He's from a world where the rules are different for the Bushes.

I voted for Clinton 2x and long for the days of a paralyized and divided government.

 

[John Galt]

Well obviously a guy like me finds Clinton most repugnant. While not a Bushie exactly, he is my choice by a mile. But here is the interesting part. I too long for a paralyzed and divided government.

John Galt

 

[panhead]

Glad to see I'm not alone here, the best government we've ever had seems to be one that is incapable of getting anything done. Of course, my personal view is a hands-off governement anyway.....

-pan-

 

[cc]

I'll go for that - let's re-elect Bush, get a 60-40 Republican Senate for conservative judicial appointments, and a Democrat House that would vote to impeach Bush and only make spending proposals that are unacceptable to the Senate. Absolutely nothing would get done for 4 years - it doesn't get any better than that!

 

[haha]

I rationalized my own lack of service by the knowledge that I helped develop the smart bombs and terrain following radar systems that gave our people the edge.

To me, this is not a rationalization. It is the obviously best way to use your skills, both for yourself and your country. If I were in harm's way, while I likely would resent a lot of dodges, I would never be dumb enough to resent someone who is in fact my armorer.

Huzzah for you and what you contributed.

Mikey

 

[retire@40]

Best government

Of course, my personal view is a hands-off governement anyway.

I just want a government that will not interfere in my personal life (especially in the form of taxing me), doesn't degrade the integrity and values of the Constitution and our founding fathers, and protects every US citizen from the savage scumbags of this Earth.

I think Bush is the closest guy in the race that can do what I want.

 

[John Galt]

Another thing about Bush; he will leave guns in the hands of US citizens. Thus they have a choice to
protect themselves from "the savage scumbags"
or calling 911. I like having the option.

John Galt

 

[bruce1]

One of my neighbors heard someone rummaging through his garage one night and called 911 only to be told all officers were busy and no one would be there for 45 minutes. He then called 911 back and told them not ot hurry as he had shot the intruder. ( he had not) Many police arrived in less than 5 minutes arrested the intruder and charged my neighbor with public mischeif or something like that. The charges against my neighbor were later dropped. I still remember the federal liberals (Canadian) and thier *&^%$#$%!!! gun registry. From an outsiders point of view I would still vote for the guy who went to Vietnam rather than the national guard guy.

Bruce

 

[Telly]

In TX, between local sun down and local sun up, on your own property, you may use deadly force to protect yourself, your family, and your property.

As long as there is no funny business, then there is no problem. Investigation will bear it out. But if it was a car reposessor with an active warrant, then you'd be in big trouble!

 

[John Galt]

Hello Telly! This is one reason I love Texas. Pretty
gun friendly (unlike Illinois). My feelings are well
documented on this issue. Texas is either way ahead
or way behind the rest of the country. Either way,
I like it.

John Galt

 

[Zipper]

Right Telly and John. Only in TX you say. Remember the visiting British tourist who knocked on the door to ask directions and the "scumbag" Texas homeowner shot him? And what about all those kids down there that get hold of daddy's or big bro's gun and shoot themselves?

 

[Telly]

Hi John! Texas was behind, as it was one of the last frontier areas. And with the urban frontier crime problem all over the US, Texas is probably ahead now.

I am reminded of an incident in the past year... A man and his wife are out having lunch on a weekend afternoon in the big city. In an ok area. They return to their pickup, which is parked on the top level of a parking garage. Surrounding office buildings tower over the couple of floors parking garage. As they walk to their truck, a man approaches them and asks them a question. Something innocuous. Before they can answer, he pulls out a knife. And he ain't acting friendly, either! It doesn't look good for the man and his wife. There is nobody to help them. No white knight riding in to save the day. Trying to keep his wife behind him, he backs up and tries to work his way over to the front of the truck bed. The man suddenly lunges over the bed, breaks out the back window of his truck, as the creep lunges to stab him. The man reaches through the broken glass, and comes up with a pistol. Just as the creep is on him. Two shots, just in time. The man protected himself and his wife. No one else could have done it for them.

Jumping to the other end of the spectrum, there is the Killeen massacre. Where 22 innocent people eating at a Luby's cafeteria were systematically executed, one by one, before the police arrived. A lady who became one of the survivors watched her Grandfather be killed. A window was broken and some people slipped out of the restaurant . Her Grandmother would not leave her dying husband behind. Her Grandmother was then executed. Before very many people had been shot, the lady had reached for her purse, where she usually kept a .38 (illegally carried at that time). But as bad luck would have it, she didn't have the gun in her purse then. It was out in the car in the parking lot.
Any one person having a gun with them, and being willing and able to use it, would have ended the massacre early. But no one did. This event, and her testimony, caused the legislature to pass the concealed carry law. Which has rules and regulations, and a big responsibility burden on the carrier.

 

[Hyperborea]

Hmmm, these remind me of this other story on how guns can be used too:

Japanese exchange student Yoshi Hattori was shot by Rodney Peairs on October 17, 1992. Dressed as John Travolta from Saturday Night Fever, Hattori and a white friend were on their way to a Halloween party when they mistakenly walked up to Peairs' house. Peairs shot Hattori dead in the driveway of his house.

And of course the stats on gun deaths in the US aren't a pretty site and the general homicide rate is over twice what it is in the next worst of the industrialized world. It's a culture that glorifies violence and revels in killing. It doesn't surprise me that there is a significant number of Americans amongst any group (including early retirees or those who plan to) that essentially lusts after the machinery of death.

 

[John Galt]

Holy cow Hyperborea! (BTW, site is spelled "sight").

Listing one accidental killing proves nothing. As far as accidental death,
"gun death" is way below a plethora of other causes.
And, any stats about gun use/deaths/ownership
and lusting after "machinery of death" fails to take into account that the USA (still) has more firearm freedom than almost any "industrialized country". You can't win this duel, so back off partner. (If you were just kidding
you should have added a smiley face )

John Galt (and still packin' heat )

 

[Zipper]

You just dropped 40 IQ points John. :

 

[John Galt]

That's okay Zipper. At my level they are superfluous

John Galt

 

[bruce1]

Good morning

I come down on the pro gun side for the most part but those who carry or have guns should know how and when to use them and be mentally stable. Rodney Peairs should not have been allowed to have a gun. If this takes government interference and I have to pass a mental and security check to obtain one then so be it. Canada is way too tight with guns thoough and it never stopped a criminal type from getting one if they wanted.

Statistic after statistic can be manipulated to prove one side or the other and in the end mean nothing.

I think criminal type people are more afraid of dogs than guns. Consequently my St Bernard sits on my porch. Actually my rooster is more dangerous than the dog, The rooster will tear your legs up with his spurs if he takes a dislike to you.


Bruce

 

[Zipper]

We are talking about walking around carrying a concealed handgun Bruce. That is not legal in Ontario or any other province in Canada.

 

[John Galt]

This is for Zipper and Hyperborea and anyone who is interested. I am in favor of private ownership of just
about any kind of weapon other than WMDs.
See, none of this stuff will hurt anyone
unless a bad or careless person has it. If someone
is bad or careless, they can hurt you any number of ways. It makes no sense to me to disarm innocent
people, nor to question why they wish to possess
a particular weapon. As long as they don't hurt anyone,
then leave them alone.

John Galt

 

[Hyperborea]

Sure, why not give everyone a button that when pressed will kill everyone around them to a radius of 10 feet. If everyone's careful then what's the problem? Right?

"Peace, order, and good government" sounds a whole lot better to me than "yahoos with guns playing in the woods at taking over the country to turn it into some sort of right wing racist paradise".

Oh and thanks for using the important debating tactic of pointing out spelling mistakes. It's usually the one just before the ad hominem attacks start.

 

[John Galt]

You can't really have a debate if facts don't count.
Or if you can, I am not interested in participating.

John Galt