Honda Very Disappointing

[HadEnuff]

All of Honda's talk about this being a "cold weather" issue is BS. I may live in a cold weather state, but it isn't that cold between May and October, and that is when the oil that they examined in October was in my car. And the tech said there was gas in it. I told him to make sure that was put into my permanent service record. He said it was.

Also, I called the dealership and they gave me the Honda song and dance and I suggested this: I want this oil changed and evaluated. If you think it's OK oil, and I didn't need to change it, I'll pay for it. If you agree it's tainted with gasoline, then you pay for it.

their response: no response. yet.

 

[Texas Proud]

Yes, all companies do it and some of them hide it as best they can.... that is one of many reasons I do not buy a Ford... I had an 85 Mercury Cougar that had stalling problems and paid a lot of money trying to get it fixed...



What was Fords response

Ford Motor Company has known about this problem since it began, yet concealed it from consumers and government regulators for well over a decade.



AND.... Rather than bearing the expense of moving the TFI module to a cooler location away from the engine—a solution that Ford engineers recommended to management for years—Ford decided to employ a less costly solution: to leave the module on the distributor, but make it last long enough to function during the warranty period, thereby forcing consumers to bear the cost of post-warranty failures that Ford knew would continue to occur in large numbers.
​

https://www.autosafety.org/1983-1995-fordlincolnmercury-ignition-module-stalling/



And what did I get for my trouble of owning this car for 12 years An extension of warranty to 100,000 miles (I had already sold mine at 120,000 miles), reimbursement if I paid for a module (I never did... they kept doing a lot of other things to try and fix it but never did replace the module) AND a coupon for $500 off my next new Ford!!! SOOO, nothing...

 

[travelover]

DW has a 2014 CRV, which she loves, but it makes a grinding noise when started. Evidently it is harmless, and Honda will fix it, but it involves major disassembly of the engine. My advice to DW is to just drive and ignore the noise. Never the less, a disappointment.

 

[wolf]

Is it too late to buy Honda's (OEM) extended powertrain warranty?

That's what I'd do if I planned on keeping the vehicle.

BTW, Honda has a history of ignoring the problems with its vehicles.

15+ years ago they had a big problem with the auto trannies on their V6 vehicles, and essentially told customers "too bad" if they needed replacement out of warranty (one poster I read claimed they had to replace the transmission in their Odyssey three times before it reached 100,000 miles)

Hey, might be me. Have 207,000 miles on my Honda Odyssey. 4th transmission. Honda no longer the quality mfg. it used to be. Would not recommend buying extended warranty. Honda would still just give you the
run around. Been there. Gas in oil. Software fix?

Newer Honda,s are having issues with VCM, (engine turns off cylinders)
to increase mileage. After 60,000+ miles, excessive oil burning, spark plug
fowling, etc. And ongoing transmission issues. And much more.

Anyone, purchasing a new auto today, should do a quick internet search.
Many forums out there for each make/model of car.

Just because your "old" car ran forever, does not mean the manufacturer maintained the reliability.

 

[Bamaman]

I hate to say it, but the recent turbocharged models of Honda automobiles are not nearly as bulletproof as their older larger displacement naturally aspirated engines.

And "making oil" is not a new concept in modern 4 stroke engines. The problem is that the engines run so cool that they don't get hot enough to properly break in the piston rings. Since the piston rings are not worn down, they don't seal properly, and gasoline is essentially blown by the rings into the crankcase.

If I had this situation, I'd make sure the oil level at changes is at halfway on the dipstick marks--so I could watch for it making oil. I'd check the oil every week.
I might go as far as to put a dye into the oil so I could see the oil level better (since modern oils are so clear.)
In the first few oil changes, I'd be using dino oil, not synthetic oils.
When starting the car, I'd let it run a couple of minutes for it to warm up.
I might also do my own oil changes draining into a clean oil pan--and obtain an oil sample to send to Blackstone-Labs.com
Every oil change, I would be documenting the engine's condition in case filing a Lemon Law case is warranted.
And when I was breaking in the engine (after it's hot), I'd run the tee total hell out of the engine.

Yamaha has had the same "making oil" problem with their high performance SHO series of outboard motors so popular with fishermen. They have had many too many engines fail--at a cost of $13K for a replacement long block. And Yamaha, like Honda, refuses to admit the problem exists.

When auto manufacturers have a very high volume vehicle problem that's very expensive to fix, they often fail to issue a recall or publicize the problem. Fixing 100's of thousands of 1.5 turbo engines could cost $ hundreds of millions. And often, there's really no easy fix.

If you want to read about anything to do with lubrication, BobIsTheOilGuy.com has a bunch of lubrication engineers talking about the subject. See what they have to say about the new Honda motors making oil.

 

[Eagle43]

I Bought my 2017 CRV with a 1.5 turbo engine exactly one year ago tomorrow. This thread made me go out and check the oil. No evidence of the problem. I hope I am lucky, but will take it to Honda dealer for a checkup. I also have a mechanic I trust, so might ask him to look at it too, just to be sure. BTW, I've been on two 800+ mile trips in it without a glitch.

 

[samclem]

I hate to say it, but the recent turbocharged models of Honda automobiles are not nearly as bulletproof as their older larger displacement naturally aspirated engines.

And "making oil" is not a new concept in modern 4 stroke engines. The problem is that the engines run so cool that they don't get hot enough to properly break in the piston rings. Since the piston rings are not worn down, they don't seal properly, and gasoline is essentially blown by the rings into the crankcase.

I've got to think the problem is also compounded by the incredibly thin oils that are now mandated (anything for that extra .01 MPG). A more viscous oil would form a thicker film and have a chance to fill some of the ring/cylinder gap.

The good news the oil is so thin already it's hard to know if the gasoline is making it any thinner.

I wonder if the 10% ethanol (and the water it absorbs) in the "gasoline" is hanging around in the crankcase of these CR-V's to work its magic? I would think that might be a larger concern than real gasoline.

 

[Bflotomny]

I think if you look hard enough, you will find similar "rampant" design flaws of some sort on every single car on the road. Pick a make and model and go out onto the interwebs and you will find a problem that lots of folks are dealing with but the manufacturer isn't doing anything about. I am *not* saying this to reduced the issue the OP has brought up (and it's significant) but to illustrate that there isn't a perfect car out there.

Many are saying go to Toyota. I lease a 2018 Camry. The Camry has a issue with the new 8 speed transmission. It will hesitate during short stop & go situations. Like in a neighborhood with multiple stop signs. The car has a problem finding gears and then BANG! It finds it and you get whacked in the back of the head. This is certainly not as serious as gas into the oil. But I offer it as further proof of no one is perfect.

 

[6miths]

Hey, might be me. Have 207,000 miles on my Honda Odyssey. 4th transmission. Honda no longer the quality mfg. it used to be. Would not recommend buying extended warranty. Honda would still just give you the
run around. Been there. Gas in oil. Software fix?

Newer Honda,s are having issues with VCM, (engine turns off cylinders)
to increase mileage. After 60,000+ miles, excessive oil burning, spark plug
fowling, etc. And ongoing transmission issues. And much more.

Anyone, purchasing a new auto today, should do a quick internet search.
Many forums out there for each make/model of car.

Just because your "old" car ran forever, does not mean the manufacturer maintained the reliability.

My 2010 Odyssey had transmission go at 70k which was unbelievable in my mind after years of bullet proof Hondas and Acuras. Honda knew there was an issue and did not offer anything to address it. CR has downgraded Honda significantly this year and the Odyssey is no longer a 'recommended' vehicle. I've moved on from Honda/Acura due to this and I just don't like the styling and features as much.

 

[Bamaman]

Many are saying go to Toyota. I lease a 2018 Camry. The Camry has a issue with the new 8 speed transmission. It will hesitate during short stop & go situations. Like in a neighborhood with multiple stop signs. The car has a problem finding gears and then BANG! It finds it and you get whacked in the back of the head. This is certainly not as serious as gas into the oil. But I offer it as further proof of no one is perfect.

I ordered a 2018 Camry Hybrid a year ago--wanting something different. The car gets 52 mpg in town and 48 mpg on the open road. Incredibly smooth and quiet riding around town at 45 mph on the electric motor. 25K miles and it's never seen the shop. I was in Manhattan in April, and many taxi's were Prius Hybrids, and they handle hard service just fine.

My hybrid is the car of the future--simply put. And it's even surprisingly quick coming off a red light--faster than its gasoline counterpart.

 

[samclem]

We're right to be mad about cars crumping out due to known defects that manufacturer's don't address. But I try to keep it in perspective. My mom and dad bought new cars when I was a kid back in the late 60's and early 70s, and they maintained them well. Still, those cars frequently left us stranded at the side of the road (it was >expected< on long trips). If they made it to 80K miles, it was considered darn good, and if the car was stilll on the road at 100K when the odometer rolled over, it was a rare thing. (they didn't bother with displays over 99,999 miles--6 digit odometers weren't in all GM cars until 1991, Ford waited until '95) . Gas Mileage? Ha! And, on an inflation adjusted basis, the cars were more expensive than today's.

 

[HadEnuff]

I've decided to look at the silver lining. At least I don't have to worry about what to post on the "Blow That Dough" thread.

Honda is going to blow it for me.

 

[steelyman]

I've decided to look at the silver lining. At least I don't have to worry about what to post on the "Blow That Dough" thread.

Honda is going to blow it for me.

Good attitude to have (but shame on Honda!). Thanks for starting this thread, I had no idea that this is going on with Hondas in particular. I’ll be more skeptical when it’s new car time.

 

[Jeffman52]

I had a 2004 CRV AWD (My daughter still drives it) and now own a 2015 CRV AWD.

At about 80K miles we have had zero problems with the vehicle. I was a bit concerned about the CVT transmission when we got it but so far so good. We have not noted any of the issues being described. Now it might be that since I don't change my own oil that this issue has just not been pointed out to me.

it is disappointing to hear that Honda is not standing behind their cars and owning the defects. But these cars have been so good so far that we will probably continue to buy them.

 

[RunningBum]

I had a 2004 CRV AWD (My daughter still drives it) and now own a 2015 CRV AWD.

At about 80K miles we have had zero problems with the vehicle. I was a bit concerned about the CVT transmission when we got it but so far so good. We have not noted any of the issues being described. Now it might be that since I don't change my own oil that this issue has just not been pointed out to me.

it is disappointing to hear that Honda is not standing behind their cars and owning the defects. But these cars have been so good so far that we will probably continue to buy them.

I think it's a 2017-18 problem only. That's why you haven't seen the issue.

I bought 5 Honda/Acuras in a row, but was a little less enamored with each one, until I finally went away from them. The OP's experience is not helping to lure me back the next time.

As others have said, you can have problems with any car, but the manufacturer's response is key.

 

[FreeBear]

I wonder how much of this relates to the risk of being an early adopter. Seem like the turbo crv came online in the 2017 new crv platform major overhaul. I try to wait at least a year or two, enough time to see the bad new show up on consumer reports, etc. I used to work in tech, with some experience in testing and reliability. I try to avoid being a first adopter, but not fool proof. Oh, my 2014 crv has been much better reliability-wise than my 2000 crv and 1990 accord, which were just average, meh...

 

[DAYDREAMER]

No longer a fan of Honda after our turd 2004 Honda Accord. They must have sourced parts from the lowest bidder. I'd consider a Hundai before a Honda today.

 

[ERD50]

.... As others have said, you can have problems with any car, but the manufacturer's response is key.

I agree with that. But is there any data that indicates any manufacturer out there (for mid-priced cars) is much better than average in responding to problems?

I'm pretty sure we see bad and good stories on each company, but does any data back it up in a general way?

For me, response is more important than the actual quality. Anyone can make a mistake. Once I know a company will stand behind and fix any problem, I really don't have to be so concerned about the actual initial quality (to a point).

-ERD50

 

[dtbach]

Sorry to hear that about Honda. I almost bought a Pilot last year but opted for a Hybrid Toyota Highlander.


My daughter has an '06 Honda CR-V with 125,000K on it and loves it. She will probably grieve like a widow when it dies LOL!

 

[Texas Proud]

My 2010 Odyssey had transmission go at 70k which was unbelievable in my mind after years of bullet proof Hondas and Acuras. Honda knew there was an issue and did not offer anything to address it. CR has downgraded Honda significantly this year and the Odyssey is no longer a 'recommended' vehicle. I've moved on from Honda/Acura due to this and I just don't like the styling and features as much.

I guess I got lucky in that I bought the 6 speed manual when I bought my TL in 04...



We currently have a 15 Pilot that is 4 years old... so far no problem but they did finally fix that transmission on new vehicles... they added another oil sprayer in the tranny.... reading a previous post I now have to worry about the cylinder cut out in the Pilot...

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Add in the fact that manufacturers very often use the same components, these problems will boil down to the "best customer service" as opposed to the "best car". Perfect example is the 10 speed transmission that is used in my F-150; it was designed jointly by Ford and Chevrolet and is used in both brands. Manufacturers today rarely create their own components, they simply put them all together.

 

[dvalley]

Honda and Toyota were always famous for their long term reliability but the newer crops haven't been that unless you by chance lucked into the right combo of the engine/transmission. Someone I know just bought a brand new corolla, she had 300 miles on it when the transmission locked up, causing an accident in a parking lot. As cars as becoming expensive, more complicated due to technology and EPA regulations they're hurting in terms of reliability compared to the late 90s and early 2000s cars.

 

[HadEnuff]

Kinda like realizing the mistake after marriage. So the answer is to never own, always rent/lease

yes indeed. Marrying the wrong person is way more expensive than buying the wrong car.

 

[Chuckanut]

I ordered a 2018 Camry Hybrid a year ago--wanting something different. The car gets 52 mpg in town and 48 mpg on the open road. Incredibly smooth and quiet riding around town at 45 mph on the electric motor. 25K miles and it's never seen the shop. I was in Manhattan in April, and many taxi's were Prius Hybrids, and they handle hard service just fine.

My hybrid is the car of the future--simply put. And it's even surprisingly quick coming off a red light--faster than its gasoline counterpart.

That electric motor has a nice torque curve.

Your 2018 will drive on just the electric motor at 45 mph? For how many miles? My older 2012 will go about a mile at speeds up to about 25mph just on the battery. Still 38 mpg overall on a car the size of my 2012 Camry beats a lot of other smaller more cramped vehicles. The mileage of the new ones is just phenomenal.

 

[rayinpenn]

What a pity my crv has a 130,000 miles on it.. a trusty steed indeed.