HVAC Seer Advice?

Marita40

Marita40

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As a background, I’m in MN and run the central air conditioner about a total of max two months out of the year, sometimes significantly less. 100 year old house, 1600 sq ft. This question is about air conditioning only as the heating system is not involved. My 20 year old Trane TRX 12 died this summer. It was perfectly adequate in cooling the house. After several quotes, it’s come down to two equally reputable companies. One recommended a 13 seer single stage Carrier. The other recommended a variable speed 15 seer Bryant. The difference in price is $3000. That’s a fair chunk of change. I do intend to be in this house for the long haul, but given my nominal AC usage, would the 15 seer be worth it?
 
No. You can buy a lot of juice for 3 grand
 
Are you sure the only difference is the SEER? $3K seems to be quite a big number to achieve only a 15% improvement in efficiency. Maybe have the company that provided the 13 SEER bid to also quote you a 15 SEER product, just as a sanity check.

If two points of SEER really do cost $3K then it's not worth it.
 
There must be other differences to have that wide a price swing - 2 seer isn't it. 15 isn't even that high. But you will find many varying prices even on the same units, from different providers. Are they both the same size/tons?
 
I actually prefer the variable speed fan. As you get older, you will be more sensitive to the blast of cool air that happens with the AC starts. You mentioned the $3K difference for the higher SEER, but can you get a variable speed fan on the lower SEER? You can also check out how much electric you use during those month of AC and compare it to your average for non-AC. That will give you an idea of how many years/decades it will take to break even.
 
Marita40 said:
.......This question is about air conditioning only as the heating system is not involved. ........
Click to expand...
The heating system probably is involved as likely the AC cools via a coil inserted in the furnace plenum. So any variable fan speed would be incorporated into the furnace fan. A variable AC compressor speed can be more efficient and do a better job of dehumidifying, but is also a lot more expensive to both buy and service or replace.

Given your location, I'd keep it simple.
 
Thanks for your replies. I've gotten estimates on systems that range from 13 seer to 15 seer, with prices ranging from $9800 (Goodman 13 seer) to $14,000 (Trane 14 seer). The two I'm targeting are a Carrier 13 seer ($10,400 which includes the company's end of summer discount) and a Bryant 15 ($13,400) from a different company. Carrier and Bryant are made by the same manufacturer and, I believe, pretty much the same thing. So, yes, I'd be paying $3000 more for a two degree difference in seer and for variable speed, essentially. I'm just wondering whether there would be any advantage in the 15 seer over 13 seer for our minimal use of air conditioning. The variable speed would be nice but certainly something I can live without. I do understand that 13 seer is being phased out soon (2023?) and don't know what detriment this would be down the road.
 
Tonnage?

My guess is 3 tons. Based on Minneapolis, MN climate data the 15 SEER will save only $43/year relative to the 13 SEER.

A 70 year payout. I would not do it.
 
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Do they both use the same refrigerant?

R410a, which has been in use for the last decade or two will be banned in the USA for new installations after this year.

-gauss
 
my son put in a new heil furnace and central air last october. it was a 96 percent efficiency with variable speed latest model. the air was 15 or 16 seer. I was wanting to see how these new units worked out for him. turns out all the hoopla about savings and extra comfort are just sales points. the cost on electricity for the air was negligible and the heating costs changed hardly at all for the same house that currently had the original furnace at 80 percent and air at 12 seer.
 
I don't know what all they're quoting you prices on, but in my neck of the woods new HVAC units are not priced like you're talking about paying.

My 26 year old Trane heat pump went out last year. My 3 ton unit with heat exchanger has a 14 SEER, and I paid $4,200--even with some sheet metal work on the base.

There are HVAC companies out there with just a few employees that have a much lower cost of doing business. The large HVAC companies are often owned by the manufacturers, and they go "for the throats" of any potential customers. Sure they do good work, but the pricing for this industry is all over the place.

I'd shop around with smaller HVAC companies and look for a 14 SEER single stage unit. I didn't even know 13 SEER units were still on the retail market.
 
That really sounds high $ for seer 13/15, but I'm going from memory. I'll look up my numbers for the units I replaced in 2016.

I got the variable speed and 2 stage furnace and A/C, and I wouldn't bother when I need to replace the 14 YO HVAC in our current home. Yeah, was kinda nice in some ways, had some negatives, and just not worth the cost and possible higher repair bills, for me.


What size unit do you have? Did it run long enough to do a good job of reducing humidity? A unit that's too big will run short cycles, and won't run long enough to get the humidity out. What size are they quoting? Don't let them go too big.

-ERD50
 
I looked up my 2016 quotes. Kinda hard to compare, as all my quotes included a variable speed furnace, so the extra cost of the variable speed is in both of my A/C quotes.

And my local utilities had rebates for the higher eff%, offsetting the costs somewhat. With all that, I was only seeing a few hundred delta from 13 to 16 SEER.

3.5 ton, 100,000 BTU furnace, relocating compressor, all in for ~ $9,000. Prices may have gone up since those pre-pre-COVID times. But I'd do more research if I were you.

-ERD50
 
I'm going to respectfully suggest that you do a little more 'homework' on this job. Get a few more estimates from local HVAC installers. Also, do some more research on manufacturers.....Goodman, Bryant and Carrier are essentially Builder's Grade units.

We replaced our Carrier unit with a Trane 14 SEER about 3 years ago. The cost for a new gas furnace in the attic and a new cooling fan outside was negotiable and ended up at $4K. Installation up in that attic in July was brutal, I tipped the installers when they finished the job, that cash is not included in the price.

Rebates from SCEG were worth about $700 off that price as I recall. We got something else back on our Tax Return for Energy Credits that year, and this year there's a 10% credit in the new bill just passed by Congress. The new Trane Unit cut our Energy bill by about $200 per month during the peak months......I'd say that thing has almost paid for itself by now.
 
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In Florida, a 3ton 13 seer would be about $6k-$8k. (no heat, same as the OP).

To pay 9 or 10k, you're looking at a far bigger unit, 4-5 tons at least, or higher seer, 17/18. Are you having them install in the attic or someplace awkward, as that might be adding to the labor costs.

Either way, with only a short summer to cool, go for the cheaper unit.
 
FWIW, central AC reliability and owner satisfaction survey results from CR:
 

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I live down south and 13 seer has been phased out here for years, not sure about your neck of the woods. With that cost I'm guessing they may need to change the evapoartor coil as well to match the newer freon. With such a short run time I would stay cheaper. Also Epa is changing minimium seers in 2023 and prices will be going up so do sooner rather than later. 2 stage much more expenise to repair also
 
Marita40 said:
As a background, I’m in MN and run the central air conditioner about a total of max two months out of the year, sometimes significantly less. 100 year old house, 1600 sq ft. This question is about air conditioning only as the heating system is not involved. My 20 year old Trane TRX 12 died this summer. It was perfectly adequate in cooling the house. After several quotes, it’s come down to two equally reputable companies. One recommended a 13 seer single stage Carrier. The other recommended a variable speed 15 seer Bryant. The difference in price is $3000. That’s a fair chunk of change. I do intend to be in this house for the long haul, but given my nominal AC usage, would the 15 seer be worth it?
Click to expand...




No way it is worth it from an investment point of view. On the other hand, if you are into energy preservation and want to make a contribution to the fight against global warming, go with the more efficient system.
 
Thanks for all your replies. I just want to note that I've had 5 reputable companies give me quotes, and they ranged from $9500 (Goodman 13 seer) to $14500 (Trane 14 seer). The two quotes I've mentioned above, for a Bryant and Carrier, are middle of the road. Perhaps I should specify that this quote is for the outside unit as well as the air handler in the attic. These really are the going prices in the (expensive) Twin Cities. Pretty sure at this point I'm going to opt for the seer, since you are right about lack of payback.
 
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travelover said:
These prices make you realize how much labor profit there is in an installation.
Click to expand...

One of my questions that I had is how does OP know that she needs a new system? Just because it is blowing warm air does not mean that it needs to be replaced.

It could be a $10 capacitor that needs replacing as this is a fairly common failure mode with compressors. Another low cost problem could be a tripped safety switch on a plugged condensate drain.

-gauss
 
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