Incandescent Light Bulbs - Which are going away When?

[HFWR]

Converted to CFLs (purchased at Walmart and Costco) about four years ago. Only one has failed in that time. Lighting was never a large part of my energy usage, but bills are down some nonetheless.

 

[Zathras]

Few people throw away thermometers frequently. I'm sure very few follow the official disposal methods for CFLs. Most just throw it in the trash.

I do, it is so terribly difficult to take one bulb, once a year, to dispose of. Frankly I find disposing batteries far more bothersome.

Here is a novel idea: any store selling CFLs must take back broken, or non functioning ones and dispose of them properly...

Not all that novel. IKEA, has been doing it for years. Target is doing now and I believe Best Buy is either doing it now or planning to soon.
-edit- My error, Best Buy is not currently recycling CFLs. Home Depot and Meanard's (hardware store, not sure how big the chain is) currently do offer CFL recycling.

My experience is that few CFLs make it as long as it claimed on the package.

Generally households have one, maybe two thermometers with mercury, and keep them for years and years.

Generally households keep cfls for years and years as well
If your CFLs are energy star qualified, they are warrantied for two years. If yours are not energy star certified it may be a case of getting what you pay for

 

[TromboneAl]

I have a box for bad CFLs and a box for dead batteries (even though I use mostly rechargeables). Ace hardware takes the CFLs.

 

[easysurfer]

A few months ago, I brought some old CFLs to Home Depot to dispose of. As soon as you walk in the door, they have an area to place the old CFLs into.

 

[Telly]

A thanks to target2019, and then later meierlde, for the wiki link. But it really isn't specific enough for me, lotta holes, and areas open to interpretation. I cringe to think that I may have to read the whole energy law to find the real details...

Even for the garden variety A19 envelope light bulb, I have many uses for them that are ill-covered by CFLs. Like the two 100 watt bulbs on my attached-garage ceiling. I'm always going out there to get or put away a tool or five, so they are on-off-on-off a lot. That's not good for CFL's, and I also want immediate full brilliance. If I'm going to be working out there, then I'll plug in some fluorescent tube lights I have, and turn off the incandescents.
Closet lights -There's another application, want full brilliance, then after being on for a minute or less, turned off. CFL's will never pay themselves back in an application like that. Attic lights - have strings of incandescents in porcelain fixtures. I want full brilliance when I need to go up there, but yet over a year, the total run time is small. Would never pay back for CFL's, much less $$ LED lights.

Still don't know about indoor incandescent floods and spotlights. I have some indoor CFL floods in use made by various mfg's, all leave something to be desired... like fast on, decent color rendition, and some have died within a year or so of installation.

I have outdoor carriage lamps that use multiple candelabra-based 60 watt bulbs. Due to the large numbers of on-hours over a year, here is a case where fluorescents could save some electricity $. However, the only candelabra fluorescents I have seen have too low of light output, and they may not even fit anyway, being larger in diameter. I probably would have to replace the fixtures, though the flourescent outdoor fixtures I have seen look very utilitarian, and look poor when lit.

I guess I'll have to start stocking up on bulbs, but it would sure be nice to really know which of them will probably be still around in a couple years.

 

[samclem]

If your CFLs are energy star qualified, they are warrantied for two years. If yours are not energy star certified it may be a case of getting what you pay for

Yes. Now, just find that receipt and the original packaging, mail it back, with a time-date stamped photo of the lamp on its installation date (to prove the lamp was installed properly and the date it was placed into service) to a PO Box in Sheboygan. Oh, wait, it has mercury in it? That's a hazardous material, can't put that in the mail.
Warranties . . .

 

[Zathras]

Sorry Sam, I couldn't tell if that was a joke or not. If you were being sarcastic, please us a smiley face or something otherwise someone may take your comment at face value.
What I could find at the EPA about it was this:

If an ENERGY STAR qualified CFL fails before the end of the warranty, contact the manufacturer to inquire about a refund or replacement.
Save important information: receipts to document the date of purchase; the manufacturer’s contact information, such as the mailing address, phone number, or Web site address; and most importantly, the CFL model number.
If you no longer have this information, look at the CFL base to find the manufacturer’s name. Then contact information to inquire about a refund or replacement.
If all else fails, send information on early failures to cfl@energystar.gov. Include the manufacturer’s name, the product model number, and a description of where and how the bulb was used. ENERGY STAR representatives can help you locate the manufacturer’s contact information

.

And yes, warranties are a pain for any product. And if the cfls would need to be sent anywhere that would definitely be a royal pain in the keyster.

 

[misanman]

I heard once that (at least some) CFLs are designed to be mounted in a particular orientation (up, would be a guess, but I'm not sure). That could be why I've seen high failure rates with my horizontal installations. Can anyone confirm whether installation orientation makes a difference?

 

[Zathras]

I hadn't heard this, but anything is possible.
I do know heat is an issue for them. They don't recommend using them in an enclosed fixture. Two of the three of ours that burned out in the last 4 years were in closets in an enclosed fixture.

 

[soupcxan]

I hadn't heard this, but anything is possible.
I do know heat is an issue for them. They don't recommend using them in an enclosed fixture. Two of the three of ours that burned out in the last 4 years were in closets in an enclosed fixture.

I bought my first four 23W CFLs (120W equiv) at Costco yesterday for $17 to replace four 90W halogen bulbs in recessed fixtures above the kitchen. Was so proud of myself. I figured since CFLs are using 25% of the electricity of the halogens I replaced, heat shouldn't be an issue. But after reading this post and googling some more, it sounds like I shouldn't be using CFLs in recessed air-tight cans. Or does the fact that these are reflector CFLs make them ok for recessed lighting? If my house burns down it is going to offset a lot of the carbon savings from everyone else's CFLs!

Can someone explain to me how a 23W bulb that is supposedly super efficient can generate more heat than a 90W inefficient bulb? Makes no sense.

 

[Zathras]

It doesnt produce more heat. It is just that the CFLs are more sensitive to heat than incandescants.
We had about 20 par 30 CFLs none burned out in 3 years (although one did break when I dropped it).
Not sure about the brand you got or how it performs, just wanted to give you our experience.

 

[samclem]

Sorry Sam, I couldn't tell if that was a joke or not.

Half joking. My comment was just as "serious" as any suggestion that someone would actually jump through the necessary warranty hoops to get a refund (for unused service life) on a $2 CFL. People buy the CFL bulbs based on the claimed life, and (in my experience) they often don't live nearly that long.
I like the CFLs for many purposes, and I'm using them for those. There are some jobs, however, for which they are ill-suited (don't work as well or at all, do not have a favorable payback period, or even result in more energy use than an incandescent bulb.) I'd like the option to buy the right bulb for the right job.
And I'd really like to know why the federal government believes they have any authority to regulate this activity. There are lots of things we'd like people to do (be nice to each other, eat more leafy vegetables) and not do (swear around small children, drive recklessly), but we don't pass federal laws to accomplish these things.

 

[TromboneAl]

so they are on-off-on-off a lot. That's not good for CFL's, and I also want immediate full brilliance.

We have CFLs in many locations in which they are on for short periods (for example, in the stairwell). Most CFLs are instant on, and many come up to 80% of their brightness very quickly (source). This video is pretty much an ad for GE, but it shows a new CFL that comes to full brightness about as fast as incandescents:

YouTube - ‪MythBusters- Do CFL bulbs take longer to turn on?‬‏

With a lot of on/off they still last as long as incandescents (second part of this video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgM0N7GD5Ic&feature=youtu.be

 

[GregLee]

Most CFLs are instant on, and many come up to 80% of their brightness very quickly (source).

The 27W CFLs that I linked to previously come on instantly. My wife thinks these are too bright for reading, however, and the only low wattage full spectrum CFLs I could find for her take 5 seconds or so to reach full brightness.

 

[RunningBum]

Here's a good summary of where and where not to use CFLs. The list of "not" is as long (but not as common) as the list of where to use them. Doesn't seem like the old bulbs should be taken off the market at this point. The enclosed fixture issue is a big one.

I need to go through my house and take an inventory of all of the bulbs I'm using, and which ones that I haven't yet converted that I should. I know that I've converted all of the heavy use bulbs that I could, but with prices coming down from when I last looked at this I should convert some medium use ones, and probably even low use ones. For the ones not appropriate or cost effective (like dimmable ones) to convert, I'm going to see how many I've got stocked up and buy some more.

 

[ERD50]

I'll try to at least get back to part of this, then I gotta run...

re - 'subsidies' versus 'payback'...

If I had known we needed to be pedantic, then I could have said that it significantly brings one immediate out of pocket costs down significantly.

Yes, I know what you meant. But in the sense of payback, it bugs me, so I challenge it when I see it. Transferring money from one group to an individual doesn't change the economics of payback. If the individual would not see the thing as something of value, why should another group pay for some it for them? The group wouldn't buy it for themselves either, why buy it for someone else, and give them the 'benefit'? Makes no sense. I guess I don't consider my phrasing to be pedantic, I consider the standard phrasing to be wrong and misleading.

However, I would posit that, long term, yes it may actually help with all costs including taxes to support your utility.

Suppose you buy money from an electrical company. Suppose that electrical company needs to build plants as demand for electricity increases. Suppose that it's consumers cutting energy consumption allows it to push off the need for building new plants. Suppose the cost of the rebate to make this happen is significantly lower than the cost of a new plant. In that case, offering the rebate is a much more economical solution as it's effectively freed up a new plant worth of capacity by subsidizing. I suppose that'd probably be a good thing.

I understand the concept that conservation can save the cost of new construction or reduce expensive peak power. However, I'd really love to have someone show me that the math works. Utilities are regulated and that ties them in with the government, and I'd bet these subsidies make as much economic sense as Cash-for-Clunkers did to reduce gasoline consumption. IIRC, some calculations I did from public info showed ~ $17 cost per gallon estimated to be saved. No one I know would spend $17 of their own money to save $4 of gas, so why should 'we' do it?

I doubt CFLs do much for peak power reduction. That's usually during the day when A/C is running. Home lighting would probably be a very small % of that peak, and offices are already using full-sized florescent, which are more % than CFL. I really doubt the numbers work, I'd bet it's another 'feel good' program. And I'd bet there are easier ways to do this with much better payback.

-ERD50

 

[RunningBum]

We have CFLs in many locations in which they are on for short periods (for example, in the stairwell). Most CFLs are instant on, and many come up to 80% of their brightness very quickly (source). This video is pretty much an ad for GE, but it shows a new CFL that comes to full brightness about as fast as incandescents:

Are these nearly instant on price competitive? This is where I have issues with the CFL advocates. They will point out that CFL bulbs have greatly come down in cost. They will also point out that they can be dimmable, or instant on, or handle cold. But they don't mention that many of these are high cost bulbs. I'm not replacing bulbs for a 20 year payback. I'll wait another 5 years to see if there will be a 2 year payback.

 

[TromboneAl]

These days, all the CFLs I buy seem to be instant on. Not instant full-brightness, but they come on right away to perhaps 60% brightness. After a few years, they still come on right away, but will be very dim at first.

 

[Texas Proud]

We have CFLs in many locations in which they are on for short periods (for example, in the stairwell). Most CFLs are instant on, and many come up to 80% of their brightness very quickly (source). This video is pretty much an ad for GE, but it shows a new CFL that comes to full brightness about as fast as incandescents:

YouTube - ‪MythBusters- Do CFL bulbs take longer to turn on?‬‏

With a lot of on/off they still last as long as incandescents (second part of this video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgM0N7GD5Ic&feature=youtu.be

All the tests and other 'proof' just does not cut it for me....

I have bought 'instant on' lights of (IIRC) the 27 watt size... sure, the instant you flip the switch there is light... but the bulb had many spirals and it is only the first one or two that are lite.... I have seen the last spiral take up to 5 minutes to 'turn on'.... now, you can not tell that much difference in brightness after 15 or so seconds, but it is not yet full brightness...


And one that I have had now for a few years is much more noticably yellow when you first turn it on... it does become white after awhile, but it is not the same.....

Most of the places I have CFLs I can live with the problems as I would rather save electricity.... but they are inferior lights IMO...

PS... I am also someone who has not had the 'luck' with their lifes... I had incandecents in my half bath on my old house for 25 years... most of my CFLs have gone out in less than 2... Wish I had put dates on them like my BIL used to do....

 

[RunningBum]

The ones I notice most are the recessed lights (R30, I think). Mine come on at about 20%, in a couple of seconds seem to flicker to about 30%, and probably take a full minute to get to full brightness. I'm not exaggerating. I think I put these in about 2-4 years ago. If they've gotten better, it's been pretty recently.

The type A CFL bulbs that replace the pear shaped incandescent bulbs do seems to come on more quickly, and I think most of what I have of those are older.

 

[Dimsumkid]

I just visited Costco and found they recently restocked the candalabra, flame tip mini base bulbs in CFLs ($6pk/$4.90 utility subsidized price) and also sell them in LEDs (3 pk/$17.97). Don't know why, but none were in stock for the last 2-3 months in all the Chicago area stores I visited. They also started offering an instant manufacturer rebate for PAR38 LEDs for $29.99, these are made by Cree, but the name brand was either Lights of America or Feit. I put in reg. shaped Utilitech LED's ($9.98 at Lowes) in my spotlights, 40 watts equiv. and they are instant on and very bright. This was my first LED purchase and so far, I'm very impressed with them. The room is no longer dark and replaced 40 watt equiv. CFL's. My in laws have an older CFL, it's almost 10% brightness for about 2 minutes, then gets to full brightness. I gave him some newer CFLs to replace that old one, luckily it's in the basement.

 

[Telly]

Thanks to all who posted. Early last week I found some additional info, was about to post it, but an emergency came up that may not be over yet (oh joy).

Anyway, here is what I found. Buried away on Walmart's website somewhere I'll probably never find again, was a slide on the bulb phase-out. According to that, it affects A-line bulbs, with special purpose and rough-duty bulbs remaining.

The slide has the GE logo on it, and I figure either they helped walmart make it, or more likely GE made the slide for walmart.

The way I interpret it is that the "special purpose" and "rough-duty" bulbs are the A-line bulbs that will remain available when this is all done.

So what is an "A-line" bulb? The letter "A" refers to a basic glass envelope shape. There are A-15, A-19, A-21, A-22, and maybe some other little-used oddballs out there.

A-19 is the most common everyday incandescent lightbulb envelope. It is 2 3/8" in diameter at the widest part. These are available in 40 through 100 watt sizes.

A-15 is the second most common envelope around the house. It is smaller at 1 7/8" in diameter at the widest part. The 40 watt oven/refrigerator bulb is this envelope size, also some clear 40 watt bulbs used in lamps and chandeliers etc. I would expect the oven/refrig bulb to continue on, as it is a special-purpose bulb. A 40 watt A-15 that is NOT a rough-duty I would expect to go away.
If "Fan Light" bulbs have established themselves as a rough-duty class, then they might stay.
"Garage Door Opener" bulbs I would expect to stay, as they have heavier (less light output but more durable) filaments, and more filament supports to reduce filament breakage due to the harsh vibration environment.

So if walmart/GE is correct, then all of the OTHER incandescent bulb types (PAR, indoor spotlight, indoor floodlight, etc.) are NOT affected by the light bulb law.

 

[Telly]

Welp, it's not as simple as I had thought above. See this link from Osram Sylvania:

http://assets.sylvania.com/assets/Documents/EISA-09.ea40cbcb-36ed-4a60-94df-852010f8da78.pdf

The bottom of page 3 lists exemptions.

Page 6 starts what will be going away. Slipped into the A-19 block are the 60B11 which is the 60 watt version of a blunt or torpedo-looking bulb used in many fancier fixtures, and the 60G25 which is the 60 watt version of the globe-shaped bulb I have commonly seen used around vanity mirrors. You can google those numbers to see what they look like if you think you may have them. But use more than one source, as I have seen questionable pictures.

I need to figure out if the 60B10 will be going away, it is the B-envelope 60 watt bulb, but in the candelabra base. I have them in outdoor lanterns, the only thing that fits.

Also starting on page 6, the PAR and floods/spots that are going away. 65 watt and below versions are not affected.

I suspect that the lighting companies have come to love this. It takes many of their highest-volume products out of the commodity-pricing world, and replaces (?) them with more-expensive units that they can run a higher margin on for some years. So just bend over, consumers, our congress knows what's best for us.

 

[Rustic23]

If the Governor signs the bill Texas will have regular light bulbs. Made in Texas, and Sold only in Texas.

 

[REWahoo]

If the Governor signs the bill Texas will have regular light bulbs. Made in Texas, and Sold only in Texas.

I hear he's also signing a bill to allow us to keep black & white TV's...