Insurance - Total Loss negotiation

Uncle

Dryer sheet wannabe
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
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Looking for wisdom and experience. Car was rear-ended, thankfully no one was badly injured. But the car was deemed a total loss. After some back-and-forth, the insurance company of the person that hit us, has given their final valuation, which is based on actual cash value vs replacement. To buy a similar car with similar mileage, their value is at least $1000 low.

The used car market is crazy high right now with limited availability... I had pretty low miles, which makes it hard to get good comps.

So the question is... what are my options and what have you done in this situation? The insurance company has moved a little on the value, but they seem set after multiple reviews.
 
one option is to take their offer with the addition of you keeping the wrecked car. Then you can either sell the totalled car (yes, there is value there) or have the wrecked car repaired. Many/most(?) auto body shops play the insurance game and will charge you (out of pocket) a lot less to fix your car than if the insurance company was picking up the tab. I have even had offers from the auto body shop (employees) to by my wrecked car. This has been my experience. Good luck.
 
What is your insurance company doing for you? You should find the best comps for your car and stick to that; don't settle for less. You are the innocent party here. Save those comps and send to the insurance company. Of course the paying insurance company does not want to pay any more than they have to. If it comes to an impass where they won't give fair value, get a lawyer to fight on your side. But your insurance company should be fighting for you.
 
If it comes to an impass where they won't give fair value, get a lawyer to fight on your side.

To get a lawyer involved will likely cost more than the $1000 differential.

But your insurance company should be fighting for you.
Completely agree. Our auto insurance company, which is generally extraordinarily good, disappointed us when we had something similar happen, and I was extremely mad at them when they didn't and refused to get involved and they should have. We ended out taking care of it on our own with the other guy's insurance company, but we should not have had to.
 
Have you actually looked for a replacement car
 
What percentage is the $1,000 difference ? As $1K out of $10K is a lot, but $1K out of $50K is pretty small.

With a rear-end , depending on the car, there can be a large amount of value (the engine is probably perfect, maybe the tranny too. Both large expensive items. On the other hand, someone not inclined or mechanical would find it a pain to part out a wrecked car.
 
Just to add to this, if the car is a total loss and they offer you a settlement then they want the car (at least my insurance did on my car)


They sell the car and recoup some of the money...


With my car the salvage value was $4,500... I took the cash...


On my son's car the salvage value was $1,000... we kept the car, took the lower amount of cash and had the car fixed with junkyard parts... which you cannot do through insurance...


As for your question, both times I was offered less than what a replacement car would cost... they actually looked up the cost of a replacement and then discounted it by 8 to 10% which they claimed was the actual price of the car, not the published price. Your only option is to get a lawyer.
 
As for your question, both times I was offered less than what a replacement car would cost... they actually looked up the cost of a replacement and then discounted it by 8 to 10% which they claimed was the actual price of the car, not the published price. Your only option is to get a lawyer.

Count on the lawyer raking off a %. You may not end up that much better off.

DS was a claims adjuster in this area for years. Typically they use software to do the estimate so maybe the software doesn't reflect reality for your situation. I'd suggest instead threatening to file a complaint with the Insurance Department in your state. Those get tracked and companies do not like to rack up a high complaint rate. If they tell you to go ahead, well, then, they may have really made a fair offer.
 
Depending on the amount sought - small claims court.
 
Can't say if $1000 is too low or not, if looking at dealer ads and even private party ads, those prices typically have some wiggle room and may then trim $1000, and maybe more, from those car prices.

Something to consider is if you'd have to pay tax on a replacement purchase. Be sure that is factored into the negotiated offer.
 
Gee, on my calculator it's $1K either way.

I'm hoping you were trying to me funny.

Sunset specifically said "What percentage is the $1,000 difference ? As $1K out of $10K is a lot, but $1K out of $50K is pretty small."

Math is hard.
 
I had a total loss last year. I found out the valuation was not in my area. I live in STL but they had very rural area value. I didnt see it first, but later looked it closely it was like that. I found better value in my area and could increased the value. also, I had to report to BBB because their rent reimbursement was illogic. BBB contact made the process much easier because the case manager was so slacker.
 
Are they paying you for a rental car while yours is down ?

Are they following up to see if anyone in your car was injured ? Don't sign anything.
 
I'm hoping you were trying to me funny. ...
Yes, of course. But also to make the subtle argument that percentage is not a good way to look at things like this. I think the OP ought to go after his money regardless of what it is as a percentage. $1K spends the same regardless. For a personal example in our market, car dealers attempt to charge a $100 +/- "documentation fee" when you buy a car from them. It's completely bogus, but pre-printed on the sale contracts. Regardless of the value of the car, my first act when sitting down with the F&I guy is to cross that charge out. I would much rather keep that $100 in my pocket than to put it in theirs. From that point amusing discussion ensues, but eventually they cave.

A place where the OP can make the percentage argument, though, is with the insurance adjuster. "Such a small percentage ... " arguing to get his $1K. People do tend to think that way. IIRC behavioral finance guru Richard Thaler uses this as an example in his book "Misbehaving."
 
Uncle’s insurer should be more involved and helpful in this situation. Might it make sense to hire a public adjuster to get a more precise assessment of the value of the damage?
 
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Thanks for the great responses! To answer some of the questions:

-My insurance company is taking a look at the proposal to see if they feel there is low-balling going on

-value of the car is $14K based on my research. So $1K would be ~7% of the value. Personally, I shouldn’t have to pay a nickel of my own money since the accident was not my fault. I’m already spending $$$$ in the form of my time dealing with this

-my car has low mileage, so comps are hard to find anywhere, much less my area. The few I’ve seen that are lesser cars (in my opinion) with the same mileage are close to my estimate

-salvage value is $3K. Car is still drivable, but frame is bent. Still driving it (sparingly)

-they did offer the taxes/fees on top of the valuation, so that is good

-injuries are minor, med bills are minor/modest, med. adjuster has been mostly fine, so I don’t foresee an issue there
 
20 years ago my then husband was literally run over by a semi pulling out of a driveway onto a highway. Obviously the car was totaled. He amazingly wasn’t hurt at all. The driver seat was the only part of the car not crushed. It was a Saturn with the slippery surface and went under the semi partially, the skin of the roof peeled like an onion and spit him out. It was a gravel semi empty so sat up higher which is probably what saved him.

Anyway it was totaled and they didn’t want to give us the value so we got a lawyer. After the lawyer took his cut we got 7k and it cost us 10k to buy an older car with more miles so it wasn’t worth getting a lawyer.
 
If you believe the car is worth $14K and they've offered you $13K, who's to say your number is more accurate than theirs? I wouldn't quibble over that amount, but you do you. Used car values change all the time, especially lately as car values are falling quickly*** (from unusual market conditions last year). You can look at it as the insurance company is low-balling you, or you can see it as the insurance company compensating you fairly while protecting the premium costs of all policyholders. Double edged sword.

*** https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/r... was up 6.3% year-over-year in September 2022.
 
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Are they paying you for a rental car while yours is down ?

Are they following up to see if anyone in your car was injured ? Don't sign anything.

my accident happened in CA, so I had to pay for one way fee to come to MO. the daily rate was so low too. Since I saw their valuation was wrong and their rental rate was unreasonable, I kinda felt to report to BBB. The company itself was not so good.

The accident caused another car damaged and the victim was complaining too and same as the case manager was not doing good. so the days of rent for him was much longer. I had another car at home, so I used the rental only up to coming my home.

There was no one injured though.
 
Sounds to me like they are doing what they did to me.... but at a lower % discount...


The other thing you have to evaluate is YOUR time... I was not willing to take a lot of my time to get an extra $1,000 even if they are low... I fought for a bit and got a little more but caved as I valued my time more to do other things...


BTW, I did not cave when someone hit my DWs car as it was less than a year old... I insisted on a loss of value amount in addition to getting the car fixed... they kept putting it off and only offered me a hundred or so... after a year I called and said I was taking their client to small claims as the formulas online said it should be $3,000... IIRC I got $1,500...
 
... ersonally, I shouldn’t have to pay a nickel of my own money since the accident was not my fault. I’m already spending $$$$ in the form of my time dealing with this ...
Exactly. Fight for what's right!
 
Looking for wisdom and experience. Car was rear-ended, thankfully no one was badly injured. But the car was deemed a total loss. After some back-and-forth, the insurance company of the person that hit us, has given their final valuation, which is based on actual cash value vs replacement. To buy a similar car with similar mileage, their value is at least $1000 low.

The used car market is crazy high right now with limited availability... I had pretty low miles, which makes it hard to get good comps.

So the question is... what are my options and what have you done in this situation? The insurance company has moved a little on the value, but they seem set after multiple reviews.

IME, you're pretty much SOL on a small claim like that.

DS totaled his car when a deer jumped out in front of him on his way home from second shift in Oct 2021. His insurer fairly quickly determined it was a total loss. 2016 Kia Forte LX with 51k miles. Repair estimate was $9,745. Salvage value was $1,901.

His insurer was Ohio Mutual. Horrible company. Actual cash value coverage.

They use an outfit called CCC for valuation and provided us with a slick looking 11-page "CCC One Market Valuation Report". The average value of the 3 comps adjusted for equipment differences and mileage of $14,762 was reasonably close to the average retail value of $14,575 for the VIN with actual mileage on Black Book Weekly. Trade in value was $11,455.

Where our major disagreement arose is that they then dinged the value by $1,231 or 8.3%. In the CCC report it is referred to as a "Condition" adjustment with a superscript 1, suggesting a footnote... but no footnote. Meanwhile, they have a whole page of seven Condition Adjustments, all of which are $0 and a total for that page of Total Condition Adjustments of $0. So why the $1,231 reduction in value I ask.

The $1,231 is intended to adjust the retail value to a private party value. However, neither CCC nor Ohio Mutual could provide any details on how the $1,231 was calculated so I couldn't determine whether it reflected a reasonable private party value adjustment or not, but the fact that they essentially refused to provide any rationale or support for the adjustment was frustrating.

Anyway, we went back and forth forever, even to the point of filing a complaint with the NH Dept of Insurance, but they were equally useless.

Agent that sold DS the policy really doesn't get involved in claim valuation, only in notifying the company of claims and then the company takes it from there so they were not helpful either.

Considered a lawyer, but it wasn't worth the effort for $1,231 and we wanted to be done and move on so we accepted their offer. I was under the impression that insurance adjusters had some lattitude to negotiate but Ohio Mutual's assertion was that it was the CCC Report amount come hell or high water so the adjuster added no value at all. We settled for $13,806 which was a value for the car of $13,531 (CCC value of $14,762 less $1,261 private party value adjustment that they never explained how they calculated it .. take it or leave it) plus a $275 DMV fee which I think was intended to cover tax, title and registration (remember NH has no sales tax).

What we did do however is once we received the settlement check in late March 2022 we cancelled the policy retroactive to the accident date of Oct 29, 2021 since at that point DS was using my car temporarily since we were in Florida. When he replaced the car in May 2022 he went with a different insurer.

The other thing is that since we were pissed and unhappy with them we stretched it out with appeals and refusing to agree as long as we could so the pricks had to pay for storage... we settled just before we would have had to start paying for storage. I'm not sure what storing the wreck while we tried to get more out of them cost them, but I suspect that it was a good chunck of what they refused to negotiate. 90 days at $10/day would be $910.

Ohio Mutual sucks.

....-value of the car is $14K based on my research. So $1K would be ~7% of the value. Personally, I shouldn’t have to pay a nickel of my own money since the accident was not my fault. I’m already spending $$$$ in the form of my time dealing with this ...

But the unfortumate reality is that you didn't have replacement coverage, you had actual cash value coverage. The $14k is replacement value, what it would cost you to replace the car that was totaled. They'll contend that they owe you what you could sell it for in a private party sale so the 7% ding is about right given our experience
 
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