LazyDays
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Re: LazyDays
Thanks for the reply. Pretty much what I expected to extract from that book.
Underbuilt/overloaded is pretty much what I see in the class C built on the Sprinter chassis, especially those that come with a slide.
Martha said:One valuable thing I learned is how little regulatory oversight there is over the RV industry. When you buy a car, you are pretty comfortable that it isn't going to fall apart around you.With rvs you have to be a lot more careful. Underbuilt and overloaded rvs are a big problem. Another thing I learned was that you want an RV that doesn't have a million little things that go wrong with it resulting in many trips to the dealer to get it fixed. Therefore you want to be sure you research in detail any brand and model you are interested in buying.
Look for safety and reliability before cosmetic features.
Another issue is pricing. As mentioned on this thread a couple of times, the MSRP means less in the RV industry than it does in the auto industry. It is also hard to make sure you are comparing apples and oranges when you buy. What are the options? What is included? Many manufacturers seem to have a relatively low suggested price, but important things you want are options that cost extra. Also, if they separate out the options when they talk about the carrying capacity and weight of the vehicle these option items probably won't be included, leaving the impression the vehicle can carry more than it can.
Thanks for the reply. Pretty much what I expected to extract from that book.
Underbuilt/overloaded is pretty much what I see in the class C built on the Sprinter chassis, especially those that come with a slide.
SteveR
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Re: LazyDays
We have been bitten by the RV bug also. We have been looking at various models and have concluded that the C model is the best for our needs and desires. We will have to go with a larger one to provide for a decent bed that does not require climbing or assembly. We both have bad backs and the bed is going to be a major issue for us.
Our short list so far:
Jayco Seneca HG-looking at a 2006 but still very expensive.
Lazy Daze Island Bed--750# CCC is a real deal breaker though.
BigFoot 3000
Bornfree 32 footer
We are selling the cabin and will use part of the equity to buy one. We are planning on renting a Class C and also a Class A for a week each to make sure we are OK with our final choice and to make sure this is what we really want to do.
You cannot justify RVing financially. The depreciation and costs just don't make for a good financial plan unless you go full time and sell the house and invest most of the equity. We don't think full time would work for us but several long coast to coast and border to boarder trips that would take several weeks each does appeal to us.
Research is key in this like anything else that has $ BIG associated with it. We are no where near being ready to buy and we plan on taking our time. The 2007 models are just now coming out so there may be some sales at some of the dealers soon.
We have been bitten by the RV bug also. We have been looking at various models and have concluded that the C model is the best for our needs and desires. We will have to go with a larger one to provide for a decent bed that does not require climbing or assembly. We both have bad backs and the bed is going to be a major issue for us.
Our short list so far:
Jayco Seneca HG-looking at a 2006 but still very expensive.
Lazy Daze Island Bed--750# CCC is a real deal breaker though.
BigFoot 3000
Bornfree 32 footer
We are selling the cabin and will use part of the equity to buy one. We are planning on renting a Class C and also a Class A for a week each to make sure we are OK with our final choice and to make sure this is what we really want to do.
You cannot justify RVing financially. The depreciation and costs just don't make for a good financial plan unless you go full time and sell the house and invest most of the equity. We don't think full time would work for us but several long coast to coast and border to boarder trips that would take several weeks each does appeal to us.
Research is key in this like anything else that has $ BIG associated with it. We are no where near being ready to buy and we plan on taking our time. The 2007 models are just now coming out so there may be some sales at some of the dealers soon.
greg
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Re: LazyDays
Rich: Just to goad you on :. If you buy one and park on the edge of your driveway, it should be easy to keep tarped. Just attach some tennis balls to 10-20 foot ropes tied to your tarp. Throw the balls over the top of you brand new, shiny-- and very nice, I might add--motorhome. Pull the tarp over, and secure. Done in 2-3 minutes. Easy off too. Ready to adventure or whatever comes your way/Borrrnnn to be wild 8)--for old farts.
Rich: Just to goad you on :
. If you buy one and park on the edge of your driveway, it should be easy to keep tarped. Just attach some tennis balls to 10-20 foot ropes tied to your tarp. Throw the balls over the top of you brand new, shiny-- and very nice, I might add--motorhome. Pull the tarp over, and secure. Done in 2-3 minutes. Easy off too. Ready to adventure or whatever comes your way/Borrrnnn to be wild 8)--for old farts.
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Rich_by_the_Bay
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Re: LazyDays
Well, there's always that small possibility....
Now if my DW were closing a $9.6mm deal: new garage, new View, hit the road, Jack.
But since it's your deal, have you seen the Safari Trek 28'? I think Greg told me he bought one while you were gone. I think you'll like it.
Martha said:I am impressed that despite all our efforts to get you to buy the View or a similar vehicle, you are able to delay gratification.
Well, there's always that small possibility...
.Now if my DW were closing a $9.6mm deal: new garage, new View, hit the road, Jack.
But since it's your deal, have you seen the Safari Trek 28'? I think Greg told me he bought one while you were gone. I think you'll like it.
brewer12345
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Re: LazyDays
She'll especially love the gold-plated commode.
I'm pretty sure the $9.6MM isn't hers.
She'll especially love the gold-plated commode.
I'm pretty sure the $9.6MM isn't hers.
Re: LazyDays
Keep in mind that the 750# CCC on Lazy Daze is calculated with the vehicle already loaded to the hilt. Full water, full gas, full sleeping capacity (4 people, 160# each, I think). So, the 750 is for the clothes, food, and toys that you bring with you. It's not a lot, but it's not trivial either.
SteveR said:Lazy Daze Island Bed--750# CCC is a real deal breaker though.
Keep in mind that the 750# CCC on Lazy Daze is calculated with the vehicle already loaded to the hilt. Full water, full gas, full sleeping capacity (4 people, 160# each, I think). So, the 750 is for the clothes, food, and toys that you bring with you. It's not a lot, but it's not trivial either.
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Rich_by_the_Bay
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Re: LazyDays
So after all this, it boils down to nothing more than tennis balls?
Cute & Fuzzy Apocalypse said:Rich: Just to goad you on :
So after all this, it boils down to nothing more than tennis balls?
SteveR
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Re: LazyDays
The problem with this low a CCC is that it does not allow much room for boondocking weights where you have to carry in all your water, food, gas, clothes, playing cards, firewood, lawn chairs, horse shoes, etc. If you have 4 people that weigh over 154# each; have full water, gas and LP tanks and have enough food for all these people for 5 days you are over your weight limit and the vehicle is no longer safe.
If you only travel with two skinny people; don't need full water tanks and only camp where you can have full hookups then you might get by with the low CCC; otherwise, I can't see two people limiting their personal items plus food, beverages, camping items, clothing, toys and other basics to not exceed the CCC. Keep in mind that if you add solar panels, additional batteries or any other options they are not in the CCC computed by Lazy Daze. I would love to have one but the CCC for this unit on the Ford F-450 is not enough for a 30 foot RV with heavy construction features. Otherwise, I would have already placed my order. If they are smart they will go with the Chevy Kodiac chassis and get the added CCC and power. That is why I am looking very hard at the Jayco on the Kodiac chassis.
Sam said:
The problem with this low a CCC is that it does not allow much room for boondocking weights where you have to carry in all your water, food, gas, clothes, playing cards, firewood, lawn chairs, horse shoes, etc. If you have 4 people that weigh over 154# each; have full water, gas and LP tanks and have enough food for all these people for 5 days you are over your weight limit and the vehicle is no longer safe.
If you only travel with two skinny people; don't need full water tanks and only camp where you can have full hookups then you might get by with the low CCC; otherwise, I can't see two people limiting their personal items plus food, beverages, camping items, clothing, toys and other basics to not exceed the CCC. Keep in mind that if you add solar panels, additional batteries or any other options they are not in the CCC computed by Lazy Daze. I would love to have one but the CCC for this unit on the Ford F-450 is not enough for a 30 foot RV with heavy construction features. Otherwise, I would have already placed my order. If they are smart they will go with the Chevy Kodiac chassis and get the added CCC and power. That is why I am looking very hard at the Jayco on the Kodiac chassis.
Re: LazyDays
The BigFoot is a nice heavy duty machine, but I find the floor plans a bit off.
The Bornfree's are beautiful. Last year we looked at a few when we were down in Florida. The fit and finish sure is nice. The 32" must be the new Born Free on the heavy duty chasis. Cost is a bit daunting as compared to the LD, but I agree the ccc is at the minimum I would want on the LD.
If you are willing to spend the bigger bucks, have you also looked at the Isata?
SteveR said:Jayco Seneca HG-looking at a 2006 but still very expensive.
Lazy Daze Island Bed--750# CCC is a real deal breaker though.
BigFoot 3000
Bornfree 32 footer
The BigFoot is a nice heavy duty machine, but I find the floor plans a bit off.
The Bornfree's are beautiful. Last year we looked at a few when we were down in Florida. The fit and finish sure is nice. The 32" must be the new Born Free on the heavy duty chasis. Cost is a bit daunting as compared to the LD, but I agree the ccc is at the minimum I would want on the LD.
If you are willing to spend the bigger bucks, have you also looked at the Isata?
Re: LazyDays
I've been reading this thread with amazement. I guess I have an outsider's perpsective that most of you would feel if T-Al & Ronin & I started having a three-page thread about design & construction in the new/used longboard industry. Or if Cut-Throat revved up a four-page thread on fly-tying or Dory got us going on boating. It reminds me of the dressage enthusiasts our family used to spend our time with.
I've been around RVs before but I've never used one for travel so I appreciate that "I wouldn't understand". When I was growing up in the '60s & '70s we used to see a lot of Winnebagos on vacation-- I can remember Dad jokingly calling them "Runnamuckas" and telling me that the ladder on the back went up to the rooftop swimming pool. And I can remember dodging around them once in a while on '80s road trips.
But in Hawaii about the only time you see an RV is when a TV show or a movie is shooting on location. I think most of them are based on tour buses. I remember for Disney's Pearl Harbor movie that several of the top 10 people actually shipped their RVs over to the island for their own comforts of home. If I wanted to drive an RV on Oahu or a neighbor island I wouldn't even know where to start looking for one.
I'm trying to imagine "hitting the open road" and driving around the country, pulling into national parks & remote areas to relax with the comforts of home, or living a peripatetic PT existence with a mail-forwarding service and a satellite dish. But I can't even imagine doing it with a camper on the back of a pickup truck, let alone an RV. The kid and I would be using backpacks and a small tent like T-Al, and we'd be on our own. (My spouse thinks that "roughing it" happens in places where Room Service closes at 10 PM.) And as soon as any temperatures dipped below 70 degrees I'd be heading for the exit.
Maybe it's all that time I spent traveling on underwater RVs. For the other one or two of you who might feel ambiguity about traveling this way, I guess you really have to be passionate about the lifestyle to want to spend your time dealing with the hardware. Just send me the highlights video...
I'm not implying criticism or making fun of anyone's lifestyle, but this is a typical comment that mystifies me. I'm also alternately fascinated & horrified with the amount of engineering that's packed into an RV and what can go wrong with it.SteveR said:
I've been reading this thread with amazement. I guess I have an outsider's perpsective that most of you would feel if T-Al & Ronin & I started having a three-page thread about design & construction in the new/used longboard industry. Or if Cut-Throat revved up a four-page thread on fly-tying or Dory got us going on boating. It reminds me of the dressage enthusiasts our family used to spend our time with.
I've been around RVs before but I've never used one for travel so I appreciate that "I wouldn't understand". When I was growing up in the '60s & '70s we used to see a lot of Winnebagos on vacation-- I can remember Dad jokingly calling them "Runnamuckas" and telling me that the ladder on the back went up to the rooftop swimming pool. And I can remember dodging around them once in a while on '80s road trips.
But in Hawaii about the only time you see an RV is when a TV show or a movie is shooting on location. I think most of them are based on tour buses. I remember for Disney's Pearl Harbor movie that several of the top 10 people actually shipped their RVs over to the island for their own comforts of home. If I wanted to drive an RV on Oahu or a neighbor island I wouldn't even know where to start looking for one.
I'm trying to imagine "hitting the open road" and driving around the country, pulling into national parks & remote areas to relax with the comforts of home, or living a peripatetic PT existence with a mail-forwarding service and a satellite dish. But I can't even imagine doing it with a camper on the back of a pickup truck, let alone an RV. The kid and I would be using backpacks and a small tent like T-Al, and we'd be on our own. (My spouse thinks that "roughing it" happens in places where Room Service closes at 10 PM.) And as soon as any temperatures dipped below 70 degrees I'd be heading for the exit.
Maybe it's all that time I spent traveling on underwater RVs. For the other one or two of you who might feel ambiguity about traveling this way, I guess you really have to be passionate about the lifestyle to want to spend your time dealing with the hardware. Just send me the highlights video...
Re: LazyDays
Just to make sure we're on the same page. The 4 people, full water, full gas, full LP are already included in the calculation. So the 750 is for food, clothes, playing cards, firewood, lawn chairs, horse shoes, etc.
True. Solar panels, and additional batteries are not included. Although LD comes with two batteries (one for the chassis, one for the house).
SteveR said:
Just to make sure we're on the same page. The 4 people, full water, full gas, full LP are already included in the calculation. So the 750 is for food, clothes, playing cards, firewood, lawn chairs, horse shoes, etc.
SteveR said:
True. Solar panels, and additional batteries are not included. Although LD comes with two batteries (one for the chassis, one for the house).
brewer12345
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Re: LazyDays
Eh, my first reaction is similar to yours, Nords, but I am in a spot. Its a major logistical exercise to pack all our crap into the car for an afternoon trip to my parents' place an hour away. I can't imagine what an actual camping trip would be like. I've got all the gear and have been tent camping since I was a kid (gotta love those Feb and Jan camping trips in upstate NY), but the last time I got to go was the week we found out DW was pregnant for the first time. Given the choice of getting to travel more than an hour or two away in a camper van (the ones we are looking at are maybe 3 feet longer than our minivan), or not getting to go at all, I can tolerate a lot of hardware issues.
Eh, my first reaction is similar to yours, Nords, but I am in a spot. Its a major logistical exercise to pack all our crap into the car for an afternoon trip to my parents' place an hour away. I can't imagine what an actual camping trip would be like. I've got all the gear and have been tent camping since I was a kid (gotta love those Feb and Jan camping trips in upstate NY), but the last time I got to go was the week we found out DW was pregnant for the first time. Given the choice of getting to travel more than an hour or two away in a camper van (the ones we are looking at are maybe 3 feet longer than our minivan), or not getting to go at all, I can tolerate a lot of hardware issues.
Re: LazyDays
Don't rain on my parade Nords my friend. Our RV is a lot less work and a lot less headaches than our cabin was and is a lot more fun.
We bought a very highly rated RV and bought it new. It has its gizmos and gadgets that can go wrong, but it isn't a submarine. If the dump tank sensor goes out of wack nothing bad will happen. Well not too bad.
Don't rain on my parade Nords my friend.
Our RV is a lot less work and a lot less headaches than our cabin was and is a lot more fun. We bought a very highly rated RV and bought it new. It has its gizmos and gadgets that can go wrong, but it isn't a submarine. If the dump tank sensor goes out of wack nothing bad will happen. Well not too bad.
SteveR
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Re: LazyDays
The calculations for CCC do include full fluids and 4 154# passengers but not all their food, clothing, supplies, toys, hardware, jpots, pans, dishes, personal care items, extra hoses, lawn chairs, etc. that all add up pretty fast.
I don't want to have to weigh everything that I put in the unit and my wish list of options would also add additional weight and cut into the CCC even more. It is just not what I want to have to worry about.
Martha,
I did look at the Dynamax units but found them to be more than I want to spend on similar floor plans and features. I think the Jayco Seneca offers better value and more service options and a floor plan that we think will work for us with the fewest nunber of slides.
Sam said:
The calculations for CCC do include full fluids and 4 154# passengers but not all their food, clothing, supplies, toys, hardware, jpots, pans, dishes, personal care items, extra hoses, lawn chairs, etc. that all add up pretty fast.
I don't want to have to weigh everything that I put in the unit and my wish list of options would also add additional weight and cut into the CCC even more. It is just not what I want to have to worry about.
Martha,
I did look at the Dynamax units but found them to be more than I want to spend on similar floor plans and features. I think the Jayco Seneca offers better value and more service options and a floor plan that we think will work for us with the fewest nunber of slides.
OP
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Rich_by_the_Bay
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Re: LazyDays
I understood that CCC includes two 154 lb passengers. And CCC limits does not mean you can't tow a small trailer as well. Just some thoughts.
SteveR said:
I understood that CCC includes two 154 lb passengers. And CCC limits does not mean you can't tow a small trailer as well. Just some thoughts.
SteveR
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Re: LazyDays
The cabin in the woods is a ton of work with not much payback and it is stuck in one place. We have been thinking about this for several months and finanally made the decision to sell the cabin but to take some of the equity and buy something that we can use for a few years that moves but provides a comfortable means of travel and has the added benefit of knowing who slept in your bed last. I have already experienced the downside to that last statment and don't care to ever repeat it.
The gadgets and gizmos are all part of the RV lifestyle. Not too different from the cabin really...water tanks, water pump, septic tanks (holding tanks), LP gas, generator for electricity, small storage space, small sleeping areas, small food storage, small kitchen, etc. The good part about an RV is that if I don't like where I am....I can move.
Martha said:Don't rain on my parade Nords my friend.
We bought a very highly rated RV and bought it new. It has its gizmos and gadgets that can go wrong, but it isn't a submarine. If the dump tank sensor goes out of wack nothing bad will happen. Well not too bad.
The cabin in the woods is a ton of work with not much payback and it is stuck in one place. We have been thinking about this for several months and finanally made the decision to sell the cabin but to take some of the equity and buy something that we can use for a few years that moves but provides a comfortable means of travel and has the added benefit of knowing who slept in your bed last. I have already experienced the downside to that last statment and don't care to ever repeat it.
The gadgets and gizmos are all part of the RV lifestyle. Not too different from the cabin really...water tanks, water pump, septic tanks (holding tanks), LP gas, generator for electricity, small storage space, small sleeping areas, small food storage, small kitchen, etc. The good part about an RV is that if I don't like where I am....I can move.
SteveR
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Re: LazyDays
Rich,
CCC does include people but not their stuff nor does it include tongue weights for trailers. Tongue weight takes away from the CCC.
Rich_in_Tampa said:
Rich,
CCC does include people but not their stuff nor does it include tongue weights for trailers. Tongue weight takes away from the CCC.
Re: LazyDays
Friends of ours backpacked two kids in diapers all over Europe (they were stationed in Italy at the time). As they were posting their latest photos of their hostel or camping weekend in the Alps, we thought it was a major tour de force to spend an afternoon at the beach without actually bringing the entire houseful of baby support equipment or having to visit the emergency room.
Heaven help you, it sounds like you're raising TWO of the model we have. In your shoes I'd vote for reproducing your home with a mobile version too.brewer12345 said:
Friends of ours backpacked two kids in diapers all over Europe (they were stationed in Italy at the time). As they were posting their latest photos of their hostel or camping weekend in the Alps, we thought it was a major tour de force to spend an afternoon at the beach without actually bringing the entire houseful of baby support equipment or having to visit the emergency room.
I'm sorry-- I admit that it's an RV thing and I do not understand...Martha said:Don't rain on my parade Nords my friend.
... but the sensor isn't the problem as much as laying awake at night knowing that it wasn't working!Martha said:
donheff
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Re: LazyDays
The idea of traveling in an RV appeals but I worry that the rest stops are a problem. Is it easy to find nice, beach front (and equivalent in mountains, etc) places to park those beasts? Also, I recently passed thru the second happy day of my boating life (the sale). Are RVs similar to boats for a lot of us - i.e., the hassle is just too much to bear?
The idea of traveling in an RV appeals but I worry that the rest stops are a problem. Is it easy to find nice, beach front (and equivalent in mountains, etc) places to park those beasts? Also, I recently passed thru the second happy day of my boating life (the sale). Are RVs similar to boats for a lot of us - i.e., the hassle is just too much to bear?
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Rich_by_the_Bay
Moderator Emeritus
Re: LazyDays
Can't answer that having not had the experience, but I am also a bit unsure about it. That's why I am limiting myself to smaller (but not too small) units which are only slightly bigger than a van, smaller than a hummer, and close to a large SUV in some dimensions.
Not cheap, but at least I can park it in a parking lot and use it as the second car until I sell it in frustration.
As to campgrounds, many favor the national and state parks, and here in Fla, there are gorgeous ocean or gulf county parks. Not sure that KOA is my cup of tea, but neither is Joe's Motel on the side of the interstate, either. Given the boomer demographic right behind me, reselling should be no problem other than the depreciation hit if you buy new.
Hey, Greg: I measured my driveway very carefully, and chalked off the dimensions of the View. I think it would fit.
donheff said:
Can't answer that having not had the experience, but I am also a bit unsure about it. That's why I am limiting myself to smaller (but not too small) units which are only slightly bigger than a van, smaller than a hummer, and close to a large SUV in some dimensions.
Not cheap, but at least I can park it in a parking lot and use it as the second car until I sell it in frustration
.As to campgrounds, many favor the national and state parks, and here in Fla, there are gorgeous ocean or gulf county parks. Not sure that KOA is my cup of tea, but neither is Joe's Motel on the side of the interstate, either. Given the boomer demographic right behind me, reselling should be no problem other than the depreciation hit if you buy new.
Hey, Greg: I measured my driveway very carefully, and chalked off the dimensions of the View. I think it would fit
.
audreyh1
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Re: LazyDays
And as a form of travel we way prefer it to cars/motels/hotels or fly/rental car/hotel. Just night and day.
You need a lot of available time to enjoy an RV if you own one. Weekends are pretty short considering driving time anywhere and the fact that you have to set up and break camp, as well as pack the RV for a trip. You need to be able to take several weeks off a year to really enjoy one. I feel bad for folks who drive long days and are always in a hurry because they don't have enough time to enjoy their RV. It's way better if you can be very laid back about travel - have loads of time, be able to change plans at the last minute, drive short distances on driving days, etc.
If you own an RV and a house, you really have a lot to take care of.
For the rest stop question - we use rest areas all the time. They provide ample parking for trucks/big rigs. Rest areas are often placed at a scenic location. There is nothing quite so nice as pulling into a rest area, turning around, and you're home! You can fix yourself a nice lunch, use your own bathroom, take a nap if you want, watch some TV if you want, use the internet if you want. It really doesn't matter where you are, you are home!
Audrey
Well, I'm sure it's an individual thing. Wanderlust can be very powerful for some folks, and we find that we much prefer living in an RV to living in a house that is "stuck" in a fixed location. That is in spite of the gee-whiz technology that can go wrong so easily, and we've had some doozies. But I still can't imagine living any other way - at least right now.Nords said:
And as a form of travel we way prefer it to cars/motels/hotels or fly/rental car/hotel. Just night and day.
You need a lot of available time to enjoy an RV if you own one. Weekends are pretty short considering driving time anywhere and the fact that you have to set up and break camp, as well as pack the RV for a trip. You need to be able to take several weeks off a year to really enjoy one. I feel bad for folks who drive long days and are always in a hurry because they don't have enough time to enjoy their RV. It's way better if you can be very laid back about travel - have loads of time, be able to change plans at the last minute, drive short distances on driving days, etc.
If you own an RV and a house, you really have a lot to take care of.
For the rest stop question - we use rest areas all the time. They provide ample parking for trucks/big rigs. Rest areas are often placed at a scenic location. There is nothing quite so nice as pulling into a rest area, turning around, and you're home! You can fix yourself a nice lunch, use your own bathroom, take a nap if you want, watch some TV if you want, use the internet if you want. It really doesn't matter where you are, you are home!
Audrey
