Mooching mom getting worse each year...

[W2R]

What blows me away are those who say that they don't want to plan for the possibility of living to extreme old age, because their kids would take care of them in that unlikely event. And yet, they might resent having to help their own parents under similar circumstances.

My approach would be to go with her to arrange for food stamps, and make sure her house is paid off (or get her into a low cost paid off condo if it isn't). I'd take her to a senior center and see what they could do for her, too. Then I'd have her utility bills and property tax sent to me, and that's about all. She would have food, shelter, and utilities taken care of.

I'd spend time with her when I could. She probably wants that as much as anything.

 

[ChadR]

Sorry, it is all invested.

Mooching is a sickness and unfortunately, you have become an enabler.

This.

I'd read the Millionaire Next Door and think about the section of the book that describes wealth transfer and results of the surveys they did on the impact this kind of enabling has on peoples happiness levels.

 

[tightasadrum]

What a tough issue this is. Glad I never had to deal with it. My parents and DW's parents always managed finances well. DW's mom is still with us and still refuses to spent the corpus of here savings. She only uses the interest. BTW, she's 90 yo! Go figure.

The closest issue to this I've encountered is with a lady who sometimes cleans our house. I hired her when DW was having chemo. Now it's like have another child who can't keep a job and who can't manage her finances. I hire her to clean and paint rental property and clean our house, at premium. Yet, she is always out of money and being evicted.

I finally convinced DW that her "issues" with money were not our problem. DW has given her money as a gift several times. I hope that's over. Interestingly, this lady's mom is quite well off, but refuses to help her in any way. I suspect there is some history there that I don't know about. So what can be done with people with this kind of problem.

Unfortunately, if you didn't learn it young, LBYM that is, it apparently is very difficult to learn later in life. It sounds like your mom didn't learn it. It would rip my heart out to have to deal with this with my mom. I like the suggestions that take care of her very basic needs, food-utilities-rent, and a budget plan. Unfortunately, whatever you provide will become part of her expected subsistence, so maybe this should also be regulated according to some form of measured scale of her basic needs.

You obviously can't let her starve, but if she expects your assistance, then she owes you an accounting of what she spends and on what. Good luck. It sounds like you'll need it.

 

[Buckeye]

I'm a woman! (((blushing)))

I'm definitely going to consider all the great advice given here and the seeking professional guidance on this matter. Everyone here has been so helpful!

So sorry!

(from another woman )

Good luck!

 

[bizlady]

Ask mom what she needs the money for- then politely offer to assist her in finding and applying for qualified assisted services. If they say she has too much in assets/income, that should be her wake up call. If she needs assistance, she can get it. If she has a dependency (gambling, drinking etc) then no amount of money will help.

 

[skipro3]

Tell her next time she asks for money, you're putting her in 'THE HOME'. And not the good one, but the one you seen on 60 minutes.

Or...

Show up on a Saturday with yard sale signs and start hauling her stuff out on the lawn and selling it to pay you back.

Or...

Tell her to have the pink slip for the car signed and ready to be picked up when you deliver the 'loan'. If repayment isn't made on time, you will repossess the car. In fact, taking away the car might keep her from over spending. Call DMV and report she's getting to be a hazard and they'll take care of it for you.

 

[MBAustin]

At 85 yo, MIL is living off about $13k SS and a reverse mortgage. All savings are depleted. She gets by and is living in a nice condo and still drives. But we're (kids and kids-inlaw) all glad to help her out.
...
So with a little sweat equity and creativtiy, I think we're doing a lot for the old gal without anyone jeopardizing their own financial status. In total, each kid probably got hit for just over $1k in 2011, which was a high year due to the dental work. DW and me and her local brother did invest some time. The two out of state kids sent extra things.

It's a very satisfying project. I feel good about it. It's not often that doing so little yields so much reward. I wish your situation could be more like ours.

Thanks for sharing this great example of what "family" is all about. I hadn't really thought about what a gift it is to be able to work together as a family to support our parents who are in turn appreciative. I'm sad for OP who instead seems to have drawn a bum hand.

 

[grasshopper]

Tell her next time she asks for money, you're putting her in 'THE HOME'. And not the good one, but the one you seen on 60 minutes.

Or...

Show up on a Saturday with yard sale signs and start hauling her stuff out on the lawn and selling it to pay you back.

Or...

Tell her to have the pink slip for the car signed and ready to be picked up when you deliver the 'loan'. If repayment isn't made on time, you will repossess the car. In fact, taking away the car might keep her from over spending. Call DMV and report she's getting to be a hazard and they'll take care of it for you.

Just mention that Bruno the kneecap breaker will be over.

 

[rescueme]

Perhaps a bit on the crabby side today...

Welcome to my world ...

When my parents were alive, they always put themselves first, over their childern.

As they (and I) grew older, I found that I had no desire or need to worry about their welfare, and had no problem at all "divorcing" them (as they did each other, after many years of marriage).

At least I feel that I (and DW) are doing better with our son...

 

[GRambler]

The reverse mom strategy.

This is going to hurt me more than it does you but no, I can't give you any money.

 

[Texas Proud]

Ask mom what she needs the money for- then politely offer to assist her in finding and applying for qualified assisted services. If they say she has too much in assets/income, that should be her wake up call. If she needs assistance, she can get it. If she has a dependency (gambling, drinking etc) then no amount of money will help.

I agree with this more than the people who say pay basic needs etc. etc.

Why? Because money is fungible... as long as she knows her food and shelter will be taken care of, she can do as she pleases with her own money, including gambling. Any kind of assistance without her changing is enabling her...

I have seen this in one of my friends sisters. She always gets into trouble even though she has a good job and wants others to bail her out. But when it is suggested that she look at her spending etc. etc., she just does not want to go there. So, her whole family has refused to help her anymore (they did for many years, but as mentioned she got into trouble again and again)... I do not know if she has been getting anything from her daughter who seems like a level headed lady...

 

[Chuckanut]

"Fungible" - what a great word!!!

I know several people like this. They are masters of transferring responsiblity for their life to other people. The name for them is 'crazy makers'. You will go crazy trying to help them, or they will make you doubt your own sanity as they manipulate you into a massive state of congitive disonance.

 

[EvrClrx311]

2035,

Sorry to hear about your situation. I think DW and I are headed down a similar road with her biological father (to whom she is an only child). He abandoned her and her mother when she was 5 and showed back up in her life 20 years later once she was married and we had our first child (a few years ago). She still has a lot of resentment towards him, but feels he deserves to know his grandchildren.

It is a difficult situation, because on the surface he seems genuine with his interest in making up for lost time in her life. He repeatedly says he doesn't want to miss out on his grand-children's lives like he did hers (he admits fault there). On the other side of it, DW and I are starting to believe that his main motive behind trying to reconnect with our family is a safety net as he enters retirement completely unprepared. We're not the only ones on his side of the family who are starting to realize that.

Money is definitely a problem for him. He's been through bankruptcy, never saved a dime in his life, and is currently working a part time minimum wage job in his mid 50's (20-30 hours a week)... he moved in with his parents (both in their 80s) a few years ago because he couldn't afford his apartment anymore - although he owns many toys, including a 90's corvette that he clearly payed at least $5,000 for a couple years ago.

He has a lot of siblings (making it on their own) and his parents seem to resent the fact that he is living with them. I'm not too read into the situation, but I believe the consequence for him living with them now is that they are planning to leave him nothing in their will (they look at the food, room and board as early inheritance). This is something he was told coincidentally around the same time in his life that he tried to reconnect with us.

For my wife, dealing with him is almost like dealing with a child... he asks to come visit us every week and she has made it clear that we are extremely busy in our lives right now and devoting an entire Saturday to entertaining him takes away from our own family time. They've worked out a schedule where he visits about once every 4 to 6 weeks, but he continues to call weekly asking to come more often. In the last few years he's started displaying some dementia and social anxiety making his visits not very enjoyable for my wife (who feels like she is constantly repeating the same conversations with him over and over).

He always offers to take us out to eat, but recently we've started refusing to let him pay for us if we do. We are also setting aside any money he gives us for holiday's into a separate account that we plan to give back to him if/when he ever comes to us for money in the future - his health is not that great and he has no insurance. We plan to not contribute a dime of our own money towards his immature financial behavior (ie: why are you offering to pay your children $75 for a dinner at Outback when you have $0 in retirement and have parents begging you to find your own place and move out?).

Sounds cynical of us... but he has demonstrated absolutely no ability to live within his means and has spent his life mooching and living selfishly (walking away from his family when they needed him). We refuse to let him become a drag on our financial future. We've already dug the moat and are constructing the walls that say "no" when he comes asking for it in a few years.

Obviously our situation is a little different - my wife's feelings towards him makes it easier to enforce the tough love. Though I'd like to think that we'd be doing the same thing even if the history between him and DW was peachy. I agree completely with what other posters have said... if you have kids you are supposed to take care of them and not the other way around. The last thing I would EVER want to be is a burden on my own child. In an emergency, family is always there to help, but for situations like this...

 

[travelover]

..a massive state of congitive disonance.

Love it!

 

[Nuiloa]

If mom is a master mooch, giving her a monthly allowance will only feed her sense of entitlement. I could see her eventually asking for cost of living increases.

Supporting her means that she is essentially trying to put you in the same position she is in, when you get to be her age. Will you have someone in the wings, ready to support you?

I would suggest sitting her down and telling her that she can have a one-time gift of XXX (whatever you feel you can afford). After that, the bank is closed. Knowing the well is dry may be enough to kick-start her into financial responsibility or at least make her willing to seek help.

 

[Nemo2]

Knowing the well is dry may be enough to kick-start her into financial responsibility......

Or pretend to.....until next time.

 

[Sue J]

How old is your mom? What's her work history? Is she working now?

This is particularly tough because you are the only child. While you may feel like you want to help, if she doesn't change her ways it's like throwing money down a deep hole. You will feel burned and she will continue to feel entitled to your assistance.

Is she using your contributions to keep the heat and lights on or is it to pay for a car lease and HBO?

If it was me I couldn't contribute to someone who doesn't care to help themselves, either by learning to budget and live frugally or by getting better employment.

 

[DangerMouse]

Beware of paying for any utilities on a regular basis because all your mother will do in future months is spend the money she might have previously diverted into that category.

I think at this stage the best thing you can do is give her nothing and others have mentioned sit down with her and help her look for programs she apply for assistance from.

Once you start feeding her it will never stop. There will come a stage in her life where you will have to step in, so best save your resources for that time. I'm talking when she is 70+.

We had a similar issue with my ILs, they figured that the role of their son was to support them in the financial manner in which they desired. In the meantime MIL was shopping at high end stores, regularly dining out and making numerous casino trips. We were expected to subsidise their lifestyle even whilst we carefully watched where every penny we made went.

 

[eytonxav]

Not that a mooching Mom is OK, but my Mom died when I was a teenager. I wish she was around to mooch off me and to see her grand kids.

 

[modhatter]

Well a lot of tough love offered here. I am very well familiar with the problem and have been the daughter who supported her mother for many years (including now) Looking back now, I can say I should have put more limits on her and not allowed her her extravagances at my expense.

However, I do not regret helping her, as she was left with 4 young children (one being handicapped) and only lower paying jobs. It was difficult for her. I was glad to be able to help her. But she was terrible with money and abused my generosity, and the fact that I didn't put my foot down sooner, I regret. I should have put a limit on it way sooner, and only provided what was necessary, and I didn't, so that was my own fault.

I guess I disagree with most on this board on this subject to a certain extent. I do feel that if we are capable of financially helping our parents if they are in need, we should help. But not support irresponsible spending once you become the funder.

There are people who just have no financial sense. I am not talking about people who can't hold a job or do drugs. I'm talking about people who work 40 hours a week, but just can't seem to make ends meet and make the worst financial decisions with what money they have to boot. Or elderly single parents who have nothing to live on but social security. As, I said. I did not follow my own advise, and I see the error of my own ways now.

It is a difficult problem, and I can certainly relate to everything you say. With my mother, the more I gave her, the more she spent, and I think that is indicative of this type of person. So help her devise a budget and contribute what you can, but if she blows it at the mall instead of buying groceries. Don't give in.

 

[GalaxyBoy]

I had a brother like that. Once he hit me up for money saying the sheriff was going to throw him in jail if he didn't get it. Thanks to a look that would kill from DW, I declined.

Funny how he and his wife had a new bedroom set from Ethan Allen a month later, and a new car. Don't know where they got the money, but that was then end of mooching off of me!

 

[Texas Proud]

Not that a mooching Mom is OK, but my Mom died when I was a teenager. I wish she was around to mooch off me and to see her grand kids.

Sorry about your loss at a young age.... but you are remembering the good.... and if so your Mom might not be the moocher...

Actually having someone try and do it makes a lot of difference... I have a nephew who I just do not care to deal with... heck, I will not even talk to him anymore... the last two times he said 'you must have a lot of money now, can you send me some?'... Well, no... end of conversation...


I think the difference is HOW it comes about for the person that needs the money.... if they had a hard life, etc. etc., then you do not feel as bad... if they just spent all their SS or whatever money at the local gambling establishment and THEN wanted you to pay because they did not have anything... that is something else....

Also, if they do not try and change after everything has hit the fan.... that says a lot to me...

 

[chris2008]

There is a huge difference between helping someone who is in financial trouble but generally responsible and willing to adapt his spending to his income and someone who is in trouble but irresponsible and feels entitled to receive support by kids, parents or other third parties.

 

[travelover]

Like I said earlier, financial irresponsibility is just another manifestation of mental illness. Accept that and it puts it all in a different light.

 

[modhatter]

Like I said earlier, financial irresponsibility is just another manifestation of mental illness. Accept that and it puts it all in a different light.

+1