Nanny state rant

[Fermion]

Just found out that GFCI is now required for clothes dryers (2020 code).

The 30 amp GFCI breaker is $125!

Note that you are not required to have this if the dryer is hard wired into the system, but who does that? Still, how many times do you unplug your dryer? Be honest!

It was already bad enough having to use the $50 arc fault/gfci combo breakers (20) for all the other outlets, but I had thought maybe we would at least be able to use one of the regular cheap ones for the dryer.

I think I read there has been a grand total of 1 death in the last decade from someone plugging in a dryer, and that was a total misswired system.

/rant off

 

[djsander]

I didn’t even know that arc fault breakers were required until we bought our house in 2021. When the inspector was checking the electric panel he commented on the arc breakers were there. The one that I found interesting is our local code requires automatic door closers on the door going to the house into the garage. They weren’t there so I installed the spring hinges after we moved in. Something happens then a new code is written so it won’t happen again. Such is the way of the government. Cue up the gas stove debate!

 

[freedomatlast]

Just found out that GFCI is now required for clothes dryers (2020 code).

The 30 amp GFCI breaker is $125!

Note that you are not required to have this if the dryer is hard wired into the system, but who does that? Still, how many times do you unplug your dryer? Be honest!

It was already bad enough having to use the $50 arc fault/gfci combo breakers (20) for all the other outlets, but I had thought maybe we would at least be able to use one of the regular cheap ones for the dryer.

I think I read there has been a grand total of 1 death in the last decade from someone plugging in a dryer, and that was a total misswired system.

/rant off

That's ridiculous! I see more service call revenue to electricians who come out and flip the GFCI breaker back on when the dryer doesn't work.

On a similar note, I absolutely hate having to install those tamper proof GFCI outlets that are now required in many jurisdictions. In using them in the rentals, there's always one tenant that calls complaining they can't get the plug into the outlet. Then I explain they are government mandated tamper proof outlets and you have to put the plug in on an angle.

 

[Gumby]

I think it is a great thing if you are the manufacturer of 30amp GFCI breakers or an electrician. And that's how we get many governmental regulations/requirements.

 

[Major Tom]

Even if code called for every single outlet to be GFCI, it would be hard for me to argue with it. Some of the early electrical appliances and wiring in the first part of the 20th century were truly frightening. Folk may look back at us in 50-100 years, and think about how unsafe our current appliances and wiring were.

I imagine that, to folk in the UK, our 110V AC plugs look quite unsafe (which they are, in comparison to UK plugs).

EDIT - I appreciate that Fermion is talking about a 3-phase GFCI breaker, as opposed to a lower current 2-phase GFCI outlet, but the sentiments of my comment remain. It's hard for me to argue against greater electrical safety, even if the increase in safety seems minimal.

 

[Fermion]

Code pretty much does require all outlets now to be serviced by arc fault breakers (maybe a odd closet here or there doesn't HAVE to be) and the arc fault / gfci combo breakers are the same price as the regular gfci ones (expensive, but the same price) so we do have all 120V outlets gfci as you desired.

Still, the dryer was one area where I was not expecting this, since it is not a high use outlet. I think I unplugged the dryer in our last house maybe once in the 8 years we were there.

Stairs are a much much higher cause of injury and death in houses..why not require all houses to be single level?

 

[Freedom56]

Just found out that GFCI is now required for clothes dryers (2020 code).

The 30 amp GFCI breaker is $125!

Note that you are not required to have this if the dryer is hard wired into the system, but who does that? Still, how many times do you unplug your dryer? Be honest!

It was already bad enough having to use the $50 arc fault/gfci combo breakers (20) for all the other outlets, but I had thought maybe we would at least be able to use one of the regular cheap ones for the dryer.

I think I read there has been a grand total of 1 death in the last decade from someone plugging in a dryer, and that was a total misswired system.

/rant off

Our dryer runs on natural gas.

 

[Car-Guy]

Still, how many times do you unplug your dryer? Be honest!

Three times, in the past 15 years, IIRC. Once to replace the dryer, once to install a new floor and once to access the drain panel located behind the dryer... Honest !

 

[Gumby]

Our dryer runs on natural gas.

I bet it also has an electric motor in it.

 

[Fermion]

I bet it also has an electric motor in it.

I mean, it would have to right? I never thought about it, but unlikely a gas dryer would use the low pressure gas to turn the drum lol

 

[Major Tom]

Our dryer runs on natural gas.

- and some jurisdictions have banned gas. The city of Berkeley, a few miles down the road from where I live, has banned natural gas hook-ups in new buildings. I believe some other cities have done the same.

When I was a kid, my Mum hung out the washing on a long line. It was a plastic covered wire, which made a great antenna for my crystal set!

 

[Major Tom]

Code pretty much does require all outlets now to be serviced by arc fault breakers

I wasn't aware of this.

Still, the dryer was one area where I was not expecting this, since it is not a high use outlet. I think I unplugged the dryer in our last house maybe once in the 8 years we were there.

Good point, which you made in your original post, and I blithely ignored.

Stairs are a much much higher cause of injury and death in houses..why not require all houses to be single level?

I think that building codes usually do specify certain required dimensions of tread depth and risers, don't they? We can't legislate against every single possible danger, though we do seem to do our best!

 

[COcheesehead]

- and some jurisdictions have banned gas. The city of Berkeley, a few miles down the road from where I live, has banned natural gas hook-ups in new buildings. I believe some other cities have done the same.

When I was a kid, my Mum hung out the washing on a long line. It was a plastic covered wire, which made a great antenna for my crystal set!

A new subdivision near us in Colorado will not have any gas service to it. I also know of a few in Nevada, same thing, no gas.

 

[pb4uski]

Just found out that GFCI is now required for clothes dryers (2020 code).

The 30 amp GFCI breaker is $125!

Note that you are not required to have this if the dryer is hard wired into the system, but who does that? Still, how many times do you unplug your dryer? Be honest!

It was already bad enough having to use the $50 arc fault/gfci combo breakers (20) for all the other outlets, but I had thought maybe we would at least be able to use one of the regular cheap ones for the dryer.

I think I read there has been a grand total of 1 death in the last decade from someone plugging in a dryer, and that was a total misswired system.

/rant off

I'm not an electrician, but I thought that just about any appliance that was plugged into an outlet that was in close proximity to water that some sort of ground fault interuption protecion would be required, either an outlet or a breaker on that circuit.

Is this a 110v plug in for a gas/propane dryer or a 220v plug for an electric dryer?

I recall when we demolished and rebuilt in 2010 that I had a whold bunch of electrical recepticals from the old house that I intended to reuse that my electrician said that he could not install them. The new receptacles are harder to use unless you get the plug at the right angle or wiggle it a bit as you are plugging it in, but at least it prevents a child or clueless adult from sticking a knife or single blade screwdriver into the outlet.

 

[Fermion]

I'm not an electrician, but I thought that just about any appliance that was plugged into an outlet that was in close proximity to water that some sort of ground fault interuption protecion would be required, either an outlet or a breaker on that circuit.

Is this a 110v plug in for a gas/propane dryer or a 220v plug for an electric dryer?

If that were true, then why would a hard wired dryer not need gfci protection? (According to 2020 code, if the dryer is hard wired into the electrical panel, it does not need GFCI).

220V plug.

 

[pb4uski]

^^^ If the dryer were hardwired into the electirical panel then would there be any electrical connections or wiring in close proximity to the dryer that would get wet if a pipe leaked?

 

[Major Tom]

If that were true, then why would a hard wired dryer not need gfci protection? (According to 2020 code, if the dryer is hard wired into the electrical panel, it does not need GFCI).

220V plug.

Perhaps because, with a hardwired connection, there's less chance of water ingress?

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I mean, it would have to right? I never thought about it, but unlikely a gas dryer would use the low pressure gas to turn the drum lol

Kinda reminds me of the [-]idiot[/-] "expert" I saw on the news a couple of weeks ago discussing how the north is so much better at weathering the cold than the south since most houses have "natural gas furnaces that don't require electricity"

 

[skyking1]

Even if code called for every single outlet to be GFCI, it would be hard for me to argue with it. Some of the early electrical appliances and wiring in the first part of the 20th century were truly frightening. Folk may look back at us in 50-100 years, and think about how unsafe our current appliances and wiring were.

I imagine that, to folk in the UK, our 110V AC plugs look quite unsafe (which they are, in comparison to UK plugs).

EDIT - I appreciate that Fermion is talking about a 3-phase GFCI breaker, as opposed to a lower current 2-phase GFCI outlet, but the sentiments of my comment remain. It's hard for me to argue against greater electrical safety, even if the increase in safety seems minimal.

Just a clarification on terminology.
All US residential power is single phase. It just uses opposite phases to create the 240 volts for the dryer, furnace, stove etc.
It plays a phase against the neutral to get the 120 volts.
Fermion's $125 breaker is single phase two pole. I get to buy a few for the new shop. :face palm:
3 phase is industrial power. We had it at the farm for equipment.
There are 3 phases and a neutral in 3 phase power and it is more efficient for large motor loads in particular.
Imagine a kid at the playground merry go round. It comes by and he gets to push on one particular handle only.
That's how a single phase motor works.
3 phase is a kid and two of his buddies each push on the handles. It is smoother with 3 pulses and more efficient. Those 3 hellions can really get the thing flying!

 

[Fermion]

I'm following the code, closing eyes and pressing buy on the $125 breaker (like $137 with Washington state's sales tax!) but ain't happy about it


But the next time I hear a politician in this state bemoan the high cost of housing, and housing crisis, and other similar things, I am going to think about this breaker and the myriad of other things that minutely increase safety but also add to unaffordability of new homes.

 

[spncity]

Have heard that, around here, refrigerators and freezers require GFCI in new construction. That's crazy!

 

[skyking1]

for clarity this is mandated by the NEC, the National Electrical Code
We are all stuck with that one.

 

[MichaelB]

Have heard that, around here, refrigerators and freezers require GFCI in new construction.

That’s shocking news !

 

[spncity]

for clarity this is mandated by the NEC, the National Electrical Code
We are all stuck with that one.

Do you know what their justification is? Safety First?

I was wondering if this requirement increases the chances of coming back from a trip and finding a melted, smelly mess in a freezer or refrigerator?

(Thinking of Mike Rowe's philosophy of "Safety Third"...)

 

[MichaelB]

If the refrigerator is built in and the outlet is behind it, how does one reset if it trips?