New(er) Car

[Jay_Gatsby]

Folks,

I respect the economic wisdom and disciplined frugality of the board, so I thought I'd ask for some opinions on the purchase of a new(er) car to replace my 1994 Honda Accord. Specifically, because of my professional obligations as an attorney, I'm looking at 3-year old used "near-luxury" cars, namely, Acuras and Infinitis. Anyone have additional suggestions? I'm looking to try and spend no more than $20k, so feel free to tell me that's just not possible.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Art]

I'd go with a slightly older Lexus.

 

[wabmester]

There's a thread here somewhere written by a guy who regrets buying a 700-series BMW. Send him a PM.

 

[JPatrick]

This is going to sound crazy, but why not buy American.
You will find a new Chev Impala is actually a very fine car.  The new Ford 500 is nice as well.  Some of the Buicks stand up very well in the ratings.  Would give you a chance to buy new.
A used Lexus is probably OK, but get a bad one and you will pay and pay and pay.
A little side story here.  A lawyer I know always drives very modest cars,  like those I mentioned above.  I was ribbing him about his unlawyer like choice of cars a few years ago and he replied::
Just because those other guys are pompous jacka$$es doesn't mean I am.  Of course I told him "really, you could have fooled me"
Truth is, this guy was a master investor and would not for a minute think about spending big bucks on a frivolous set of wheels.  He also had a habit of dressing down as much as he could get away with.  I think that made more people (clients) feel comfortable with him.  Like he was actually human :

 

[grumpy]

I have had good results with my certified used Lexus. I bought a '97 ES300 in 2002. It had 47K miles on it. It came with a bumper to bumper warranty for 3 more years or 100K miles, whichever came first. The car has been great. I have had a couple of warranty items that would have cost me $1800 taken care of completely. I paid $21K for the car in 2002. I doubt you could get a similar car for $20K now though.

My wife has a '95 Toyota XLE that we bought as a certified used car in '98 with 26K miles for around $17K. Had similar warranty as above. Still runs great.

Good luck.

 

[JPatrick]

This is going to sound crazy, but why not buy American.
You will find a new Chev Impala is actually a very fine car.  The new Ford 500 is nice as well.  Some of the Buicks stand up very well in the ratings.  Would give you a chance to buy new.
A used Lexus is probably OK, but get a bad one and you will pay and pay and pay.
A little side story here.  A lawyer I know always drives very modest cars,  like those I mentioned above.  I was ribbing him about his unlawyer like choice of cars a few years ago and he replied::
Just because those other guys are pompous jacka$$es doesn't mean I am.  Of course I told him "really, you could have fooled me"
Truth is, this guy was a master investor and would not for a minute think about spending big bucks on a frivolous set of wheels.  He also had a habit of dressing down as much as he could get away with.  I think that made more people (clients) feel comfortable with him.  Like he was actually human :

Damn, I completely forgot- - -that will be $300

 

[BristolBane]

I think an Infiniti would be perfect for this sort of thing. You get a very nice Japanese luxury car with all the reliability but without the Lexus premium. For some reason Infiniti has just not caught on that well. You could probably squeeze into a 2003 G35 for around 20k. Nice car! I drove one as a loaner once.

I have a 2000 G20 which was the low end "starter" back then. They don't make it any more. Only had one problem with it and that was covered under warranty.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Folks,

I respect the economic wisdom and disciplined frugality of the board, so I thought I'd ask for some opinions on the purchase of a new(er) car to replace my 1994 Honda Accord.  Specifically, because of my professional obligations as an attorney, I'm looking at 3-year old used "near-luxury" cars, namely, Acuras and Infinitis.  Anyone have additional suggestions?  I'm looking to try and spend no more than $20k, so feel free to tell me that's just not possible.

Thanks in advance.

Cadillac

JG

 

[Nords]

Truth is, this guy was a master investor and would not for a minute think about spending big bucks on a frivolous set of wheels.  He also had a habit of dressing down as much as he could get away with.  I think that made more people (clients) feel comfortable with him.  Like he was actually human :

Our cars, our clothes, and our home reflect our values-- not our net worth.

Would you feel you were getting good value by paying a guy who wears expensive suits?

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I don't want to get too much into whether buying the type of car I'm contemplating reflects good or bad values. Then again, perhaps that's the point Nords was trying to raise, namely, good value for the money (or maybe not )

I've looked at used Lexus and BMW, but there's such a premium for the brand name. Infinitis and Acuras give you much more car for the same or less money. What I don't want to do is purchase a near-luxury car with 1/3 of its useful life (and arguably the best period), and yet pay 2/3 of the new car price. While paying such an amount would make sense from a proportionate standpoint, it doesn't take into account the 20% loss the minute you drive the car off the lot.

I'm not looking forward to handling (or being handled by) car dealers. No-haggle dealers like Carmax aren't any better, since they build in a nice little $1,500-2,000 guaranteed profit into their "no-haggle" pricing. What ever happened to finding a guy with several of the cars in stock, offering him $1,000 over what he paid (to take into account things like reconditioning for sale and the commission), and shaking hands over the deal?

 

[brewer12345]

My recollection was that a guy on the TMF boards (BuildMWell) used to buy very nice luxury cars cheaply via estate sales in FL. He would scan classifieds, etc. for the car he wanted and usually end up dealing with an executor who was happy to sell at a bargain price provided it was a cash deal and the least aggravation possible to dispose of the car. Might be worth checking out as an alternative to a dealer.

I have to agree that Infiniti and Acura seem to be good choices. I'd probably lean toward the Acura, myself, but that it personal preference.

 

[yelnad]

What about an Audi?

 

[Cut-Throat]

What about an Audi?

Not near as good as Japanese reliability. - Expensive Maint. - Pretty much the same for BMW

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Poor reliability. - Expensive Maint. - Pretty much the same for BMW

That's what I've heard as well. On the flip side, I've heard Audis and BMWs are fun cars to drive (if you're into that sort of thing).

 

[cj]

I had a Mercedes once.  Bought it brand new and had it 6 years.  I don't even want to talk about the $$$$$  I spent on it.  Things went wrong a LOT and cost a LOT to fix.  I am not hard on cars (only put 65K miles on it over the years), and am diligent about regular maintenance, but that car was ridiculous.  Not to mention horrible in snow!  After that car, I swore off EVER buying a luxury car again.  When I traded the Mercedes in, I traded it for a new 1994 Honda Accord (isn't that where this thread started??)  I'm still driving the Honda, and have never had a single problem with it.  It has 126K miles on it, looks great, runs great.  I'm planning to keep it another 10 years if I can get away with it!

If image is what you are after, then do what you have to do.  But even though it may be a less-expensive used car, you still may end up paying out the nose to maintain it if it's one of those luxury things.

You might also want to look at Consumer Reports reliability ratings on used cars.

Good luck!
CJ

 

[Cut-Throat]

Jay,

If I were in your position, I'd look for a 3-4 year old Acura RL. The smaller Acuras TL etc. are sought after by kids that soup them up. The Acura RL is a bigger car their top of the line and you may get a better price on a used one.

As far as JG Caddy reccomendation, your clients might think that you have not entered the computer age yet. It's an Old Man's car.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I had a Mercedes once.  Bought it brand new and had it 6 years.  I don't even want to talk about the $$$$$  I spent on it.  Things went wrong a LOT and cost a LOT to fix.  I am not hard on cars (only put 65K miles on it over the years), and am diligent about regular maintenance, but that car was ridiculous.  Not to mention horrible in snow!  After that car, I swore off EVER buying a luxury car again.  When I traded the Mercedes in, I traded it for a new 1994 Honda Accord (isn't that where this thread started??)  I'm still driving the Honda, and have never had a single problem with it.  It has 126K miles on it, looks great, runs great.  I'm planning to keep it another 10 years if I can get away with it!

If image is what you are after, then do what you have to do.  But even though it may be a less-expensive used car, you still may end up paying out the nose to maintain it if it's one of those luxury things.

You might also want to look at Consumer Reports reliability ratings on used cars.

Good luck!
CJ

Good advice. Image is important, at least in the image-conscious area in which I live. OTOH, an Acura would probably be the best choice under the circumstances, since it would have comparable reliability rating to Hondas, if not better.

Cut-Throat: You may be right, but an RL with less than 40k miles is outside of my price range. I doubt kids are going to be interested in modding the pre-2004 TL, since it's a bigger and heavier car. They're mostly focused on the RSX, which for all intents and purposes is a reborn Integra. The TSX offers many of the same advantages as the TL, but for $$$ less. In regards to the Inifiniti (i.e. the G35 sedan), it's RWD and doesn't handle that well in rain, slush and snow.

 

[Michael Moore]

A friend of mine is the service/parts manager at a big Honda car dealership, and he says it isn't uncommon to see Civics and the like come in at 200K miles for a major tuneup and then go back out for a lot more miles.

I suspect that probably is true for most any of the current Japanese manufacturers.

If you are buying for the long term I'd suggest that you look closely at how comfortable you are in the car. See if you can take it out for a couple hour drive. Buying a car that has your back screaming on a longer trip is a bad decision. And "comfort" doesn't mean "wallowy old-style Caddy ride". You can have a well controlled suspension so the thing handles OK that still gives a good ride. Seats are your major interface with the vehicle - lumbar adjustments and the like are something to look for. Also, seats wear out along with the rest of the car, especially the drivers seat. Just because the cover looks OK doesn't mean that the springing/padding hasn't sacked out.

cheers,
Michael

 

[laurence]

Lexus is on my watch list, but has anyone had experience with the Lincoln LS? It really catches my eye.

I have a VW/Audi, from synthetic oil required, highest octane required, and tune ups being double the cost of my Jeep, it's not a "value". But it is fun to drive.

 

[Caroline]

You might also want to look at Consumer Reports reliability ratings on used cars.

Consumer reports is fabulous -- both for reliability reports AND for their pricing reports -- you can buy a report on the car(s) you want that will tell you what has been selling for in your area. Also go to KBB (Kelly Blue Book) for similar information.

As to what car -- I bought a Toyota Camry for 10K out the door 14 years ago, just sold it for 1K. Best 9K I ever spent. Took it on washboard roads on camping trips, halfway across the U.S. and back any number of times, and worst of all, into San Francisco Bay area stop-and-go commute traffic. I'd put rolled-up rafts in the back seat when we went on river trips, and loaded it to capacity with bricks when I couldn't borrow a truck. Never had a SINGLE problem with it. Absolutely bullet-proof.

I'd have kept it forever except that I wanted airbags. You just cannot go wrong with anything made by Toyota.

Caroline

 

[Art]

Absolutely. I love my '96 Camry.

 

[Nords]

I don't want to get too much into whether buying the type of car I'm contemplating reflects good or bad values.  Then again, perhaps that's the point Nords was trying to raise, namely, good value for the money (or maybe not )

No, no tree huggers here. Just a value shopper.

A friend of ours works very hard at his carpet-cleaning business and lives very simply-- except for the money that he spends on his high-end car hobby. After buying a home out of foreclosure (trashed by its tenants) he completely rehabbed the place and celebrated by "giving" himself a Lotus Triumph.

Last year one of his crews had trouble on the job site (a restaurant) and asked him to stop by. He was on his way to a car-club event and diverted. When he drove up in the Triumph, the restaurant owner saw the car and made the snap decision that he was paying too much for his carpet service... now he drives his pickup truck or parks the Triumph and takes a cab.

So there's a lot to be said for wearing your values on the outside and your wealth on the inside.

As for the car, we'd never buy from a dealer again. Classified ads, CARFAX, kbb.com, edmunds.com, & Consumer Reports' Used Car Guide do it for us. Toyota Camry, Nissans, or Hondas.

But then we spent two hours yesterday picking through a junkyard for an Altima muffler (couldn't break the rusty nuts) and miscellaneous Taurus parts (complete success!). eBay has one good-looking Altima muffler on sale but sellers using "United States only" and "UPS ground" in the same paragraph usually aren't shipping to Hawaii. So today I think I'm gonna phone around to pay (*choke*) actual retail for a muffler.

Unless I get sidetracked by this local FreeCycle poster trying to get rid of a 25 cu ft Whirlpool fridge...

 

[SLC Tortfeasor]

I think it's crazy to buy from a dealer, new or used, unless you absolutely have to have precisely the model that's on a particular dealer's lot.  Dealers are in business to make a profit, and they won't be in business long if they're not successful at doing so. 

Individuals, on the other hand, typically don't have the skills or experience at selling used cars to really shaft you.  In fact, there's at least a chance that you'll get the better end of the bargain when you buy from an individual.  With a dealer, you can virtually guarantee you won't.

You say you get "reconditioning" and an "inspection" from a dealer, and that justifies the premium you pay them?  Simply get a mechanic to inspect before you buy to make sure it's a worthy vehicle.  Then get the thing professionally detailed.  It's amazing what a huge difference that makes.

 

[yakers]

Its my understanding from my older son who sold cars for a while that dealers generally make more money selling used cars than new cars. If you pick a low demand model (Pontiac Aztec?}you can get it very near dealer cost. They want to move cars to get sales volume discounts and they can maybe get more from the next -pidgeon- customer and they make money in the service department. I bought two new cars which had 30% off MSRP, this is below what Consumer Reports and Kelly Blue Book say is the actual dealer cost including holdbacks and promotions.
Now if you want a popular model, forget it.
I did just see a GT40 at the local Ford dealer, marked up from $150K to $300K and he will probably get that price.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Its my understanding from my older son who sold cars for a while that dealers generally make more money selling used cars than new cars. If you pick a low demand model (Pontiac Aztec?}you can get it very near dealer cost. They want to move cars to get sales volume discounts and they can maybe get more from the next -pidgeon- customer and they make money in the service department. I bought two new cars which had 30% off MSRP, this is below what Consumer Reports and Kelly Blue Book say is the actual dealer cost including holdbacks and promotions.
Now if you want a popular model, forget it.
I did just see a GT40 at the local Ford dealer, marked up from $150K to $300K and he will probably get that price.

Taking this concept (dealers making more on used cars), I knew 2 guys
who owned those "No cash, no credit, we don't care/buy here-pay here"
operations. They both made so much money they hardly knew what to do with
it. I discovered this too late in life to try it. Another real good idea
is "payday" loans or cash stores. Probably overdone now, and surely
will be regulated to death eventually as the politicians think it's taking
advantage of "po folks".

JG