After FI: late 30-something wondering what her purpose is

[pizzagal]

Hi everyone,

I've read this wonderful board for the past several years and now am writing to request your sage advice and wisdom. I'm in my late 30's, and am going through a bit of an existential crisis.

Personal life: I am surrounded by love from the two men in my life: my dad and my partner. My dad is the hardest worker that I know and I'm FI because of his commitment to ensuring that I didn't have any student loans. Partner and I are in a long-term relationship, we're not married, and we maintain separate finances. (No kids in my future as I love hanging out with them & babysitting as a fun aunt but have very complex feelings about attachment and then subsequent abandonment from my own mother.)

Looking ahead to the future, I worry about what I will do when my dad is no longer here, and as SO has had a bout of cancer in his past, what my life will look like as a true singleton. Being an older single person in America is a scary thought, and while I'm not from any of these countries, I've begun looking at Malaysia/Thailand/Vietnam as a potential permanent landing place.

Professional life: I started out in BigLaw and then moved over to a role as corporate counsel. A couple of jobs later, I am still in-house and realize that mentally, I don't derive any fundamental joy in the work that I do anymore (and this is worrisome for me as pre-COVID I was the person who was the first person at work at 7 in the morning and wouldn't leave work until 7 in the evening). I found so much fulfillment from the work that I did.

While I do the same work today, something has changed within me. During COVID, and due to a couple of managers I didn't mesh well with, I went through a process of separating my job from my sense of self. Not having my job tied to my sense of worth has been great in one respect from a mental health standpoint, but on the other hand, there are days where I barely recognize the person I've become from a job standpoint. On days where I was particularly upset, I would resort to manually calculating my NW, which caused a temporary spike in happiness. Though, it's not helpful mentally to have a Pavlovian "work sucks, let's check NW" mindset to personal finance, IMO, so I'm attempting to minimize that moving forward.

I changed jobs in the midst of the pandemic, moved to a WFH role, and respect both my employer and my boss. I remain committed to doing a good job, but in the years of COVID and since then, I simply find myself wanting to get the job done as quickly as possible. Almost like an assembly-line approach. This approach means I am super responsive and I get things done really quickly. I also make mistakes under this approach, but I acknowledge them, raise them to my boss, and to my surprise, get more work from him. I am a mid-level individual contributor, and while I don't have ambitions for senior leadership, I would very much like to regain the joy I used to have for work.

My father has worked in his role for 40 years, spends hours each weekend working, and literally can't wait to wake up each day to start working again. I look at myself and hope I can regain the work ethic I once had to emulate his standard. As an example, even under work situations where I didn't like what I was doing or didn't respect the boss I was reporting to, I'd spend a few hours each weekend preparing for the week ahead. Fast forward to today, the thought of working on a Sunday crossed my mind, and I promptly brushed it aside.

Hobbies: By nature, I am a quiet introvert though I can be quite extroverted with the right people in the right environment. Growing up, my primary hobbies were reading, writing, and playing piano. The couple of pandemic years made me extremely introverted, and I've become rather uncomfortable in situations where I'm expected to dress up & try to be someone that I'm not. Home is the place where I am most comfortable, as I can wear sweats and an old t-shirt and simply be myself.

During COVID, I volunteered at a food bank at the nearby church, and found the most enjoyment in non-client facing roles like packaging food in the warehouse. After my one time there, I felt bad that I couldn't muster up the energy to handle the customer-facing roles that I thought I would derive the most fulfillment from.

I am trying to rediscover my love of reading, writing, and piano, but I'm realizing I have severe commitment issues to that -- as in, I'll start writing (I have a romance novel in my mind), but then I get bored, don't want to do it anymore, and start watching Netflix. As another example, I was a math major before I went to law school and have attempted a couple of times to teach myself Python. It's been several years since I've used the technical part of my brain and I enjoyed the few weeks where I spent focusing on it, but my interest dropped afterwards and I can't pick it back up without restarting the process.

Things that bring me the most joy: I'm grateful to have a partner who enjoys frugality as much as I do, and I get a ton of joy & excitement figuring out which new restaurants we'll try; mapping out our road trips so we can visit new Costcos along the way and check out their clearance sales; and planning which of the buffets in our regular rotation we will eat at during the weekend. While I am most comfortable at home, I also derive enjoyment from being around people in situations where I don't need to talk to them. Yesterday, I spent the morning in a Starbucks, bought an ice tea (as it was the cheapest thing on the menu of course), and people watched for 3 hours while scrolling through Reddit.

Questions:

(1) For those of you who enjoyed your work for a part of your career & may have lost that at one point or another, how did you regain that enjoyment/fulfillment/[insert appropriate noun here]?

(2) Everyone who I speak with IRL finds their purpose in life through their children. As that will not be in the cards for me, I'm wondering: especially for those of you who are not parents, how did you find your fulfillment, purpose, or meaning in your life?

(3) From what I've written above, are there any hobbies I should be looking at or volunteer causes that I should be evaluating? I want to create something, but I don't know what that is. Knowing myself, if I don't have a hobby or something that I work towards, I will spend the day on the couch and watch Netflix. Days of the pandemic were like this, and while they were very relaxing, I want to work towards something.

(4) For any of you who have considered permanent residency outside of the US as you get older, I'd be all ears to hear what you decided. The level of respect I see in countries outside of the US to our elders makes me realize that while I'm grateful to have received a US education & salary, living here likely isn't in the cards when I'm 50 and beyond.

If you've made it this far, thank you for reading!

 

[audreyh1]

Married but no children, retired at 39. I already had a number of hobbies but what I really wanted to do was travel, no encumbrances. And that’s what we’ve done, traveled a lot including a long stint full-time in an RV. We were already into nature, birdwatching. Other than that I ended up mostly developing new hobbies after retirement once I had the time to pursue more complex activities. One interest led to another.

We never did formal volunteer stuff, it can be tricky, but we did assist several parks in various ways.

Moved a couple times, driven by our interests.

 

[livingalmostlarge]

Why can't parents find joy outside of their children? I just ask because I really work hard on pursueing friendships and activities outside my kids. I know they will grow up and move away and live their own lives I hope to participate in. BUT I do NOT want to be a parents who depends on their kid to find happiness. Rather I want to be happy and fufilled and them bring joy to my kids like my mom does to me.

I think if you only depend on your kids for friendships, activities, and a social life then when they leave what happens? Who are you? It's probably why there is a lot of marriages that end after the kids grow up.

I like volunteering and just meeting up with friends and doing activities (working out), walking the dog, taking a class. Why not?

 

[sturbridge]

Are you living your life, or are you trying to live your father's life? Why have you decided that a 12 hour day is an ideal you are required to match? Why are you in the field of law if you no longer enjoy it? I felt when reading your post that there are a lot of "shoulds" in your life, that are unexamined. Why are those shoulds there, and are they really things that you have decided, or things you take for granted because your father did them?

I struggle too with the meaning/purpose thing too, as an early retired person with no kids. Still working on it. Its harder without kids, for sure.

 

[DrRoy]

(1) For those of you who enjoyed your work for a part of your career & may have lost that at one point or another, how did you regain that enjoyment/fulfillment/[insert appropriate noun here]?

(2) Everyone who I speak with IRL finds their purpose in life through their children. As that will not be in the cards for me, I'm wondering: especially for those of you who are not parents, how did you find your fulfillment, purpose, or meaning in your life?

(3) From what I've written above, are there any hobbies I should be looking at or volunteer causes that I should be evaluating? I want to create something, but I don't know what that is. Knowing myself, if I don't have a hobby or something that I work towards, I will spend the day on the couch and watch Netflix. Days of the pandemic were like this, and while they were very relaxing, I want to work towards something.

(4) For any of you who have considered permanent residency outside of the US as you get older, I'd be all ears to hear what you decided. The level of respect I see in countries outside of the US to our elders makes me realize that while I'm grateful to have received a US education & salary, living here likely isn't in the cards when I'm 50 and beyond.

If you've made it this far, thank you for reading!

1) Two things have taken up the bulk of my time in RE - travel and photography. After taking a trip, I have a big job to edit all the photos. I am glad when that is over and I have time to read a book again.

2) We have two adult sons, but I would not say that my fulfillment is through them. For one thing, there are no grandchildren likely. I get a lot of favorable reaction to my photography, and that is nice.

3) See #1. You have to find what is meaningful to you. Try Meetup.com.

4) N/A

Good luck.

 

[donheff]

I have no useful advice for you but, as this is your first post, I will say welcome to the board!

The no useful advice part is because I am one of those people who has no angst about fulfillment and regularly drift into new pursuits that engage me mentally and physically. I hope you can find your way into life satisfaction. In the meantime, there are lots of engaging people on this board who will talk to you about just about anything.

 

[Dash man]

We’re empty nesters, and we do enjoy time with our grandkids and kids, it’s not the center of our lives. We’ve found purpose through our church and helping others as best as we can. Health is limiting our physical activities, but not our philanthropic endeavors. We look for opportunities to help where we can, whether a family in need or supporting a major project. There’s no better food for the soul than providing help when needed.

 

[Markola]

Welcome! We are married 25 years, no kids. All I can say is, for us, quitting our full bore jobs at 54 after getting everything lined up and then taking an indefinite break was wonderful and just what we needed. For each of us, after about a year, we were refreshed and ready for the next things. I found some consulting opportunities that still gave me lots of free time and DW started serving on a board and works off and on when opportunities come along.

If we are any indication, a good cleansing break with no professional commitments and then adding back pieces that come along and feel right, has worked pretty well so far. We’ve found that there is no law of the universe that says one’s butt must be in the chair for 40 hours+ per week to have Purpose. Just 4-10 hours/week deploying the expertise I built up over 30 years does the trick for me. Good luck!

 

[38Chevy454]

Welcome to the forum. An old saying, but you have a job to retire from and you need something to retire to. I also sense that you, up until recently, had a lot of yourself defined by your career. Now that has changed. I kind of sense that you are bored in life currently.

Maybe see if you can go part time at work? Is staying for home a too much of a good thing and going into office to provide new scenery and interaction with live people what you need? For sure find something to do in non working hours beside watching TV. Basically find a hobby or two that you enjoy and will stick with. Could be traveling, volunteering, getting serious about health and exercising, or the mentioned new hobbies. Just things that stimulate your mind.

 

[gauss]

#3 One of volunteer gigs that I have been involved with that you may find interesting include
A) Preparing tax returns for others at the local senior center. It will challenge your brain in learning and applying the tax law. If you get satisfaction in helping people (often less fortunate material wise than myself) that in 99% of the cases are very appreciative you may draw satisfaction from that also. AARP Taxaide is the large organization that I am part of.
edit: Oops - I just reread your post and given your preference for non-customer facing roles, the above may not be appropriate.

A couple of comments on volunteering in general

#1) I like the areas where I have volunteered (including the above) in that they always had an annual cycle. I wanted something that I could easily step away from if it became too much like a job and having a natural break every year makes this the natural time.

#2) Realize that like the w*rking world, there are what I would call "white-collar" opportunities as well as more "blue-collar" opportunities. By white-collar I would include roles that include dealing with email, meetings , off site work at home etc etc. The blue-collar opportunities can be defined by those volunteer gigs where you come in, serve your hours, and then return to your life when your shift is over and don't necessarily need to think about the gig until your next shift. Knowing yourself and realizing this natural breakdown may provide useful to you.

-gauss

 

[MarieIG]

The following is my impression only:

I think you should find a very good counselor/ therapist and deal with your emotional (attachment or otherwise) issues. I would also get a very thorough physical. You sound very, very burnt out and perhaps - mildly depressed.

In your shoes, I would work on myself first, rather than external factors (other than perhaps taking a sabbatical/ or reduction of hours/ initiating an exercise-health program). You may indeed (eventually) find a change in career to be helpful, but it may be without addressing underlying issues - that loss of purpose/ fulfillment may persist.

 

[RetiredHappy]

@MarieIG sums up my thought when I read your post. You should seek professional counseling.

I am an introvert in person and I can be happy all by myself. However, I do find joy being around a very small group of friends whom I have developed friendship and trust. I am Type A, and used to work 7 days a week and 12 hours a day. Retirement jumped out at me when my husband said that we were selling the business. I said to give me a year of break and I would decide if I were to go back to work. It has now been 7 years and I have found joy in not working. I picked up golf and have been spending most days golfing. What I am trying to say is, you need to find something which gives you joy. I found friendships through the country club environment. I don't go to large group gatherings, or drinking events. Those are not my thing. I have a few close friends whom I can text and call. We also host dinner occasionally with a couple of people at a time.

Moving overseas for when you get older is a very drastic move, thinking that it is the solution to a problem. It is not. You need to solve the underlying emotional issue first.

 

[Koolau]

The following is my impression only:

I think you should find a very good counselor/ therapist and deal with your emotional (attachment or otherwise) issues. I would also get a very thorough physical. You sound very, very burnt out and perhaps - mildly depressed.

In your shoes, I would work on myself first, rather than external factors (other than perhaps taking a sabbatical/ or reduction of hours/ initiating an exercise-health program). You may indeed (eventually) find a change in career to be helpful, but it may be without addressing underlying issues - that loss of purpose/ fulfillment may persist.

I second this.

Regarding loving your j*b again. I stealthily created a new assignment for myself at megacorp. (I don't know if that's an option for you.) That got me excited again about going to w*rk. I became financially independent yet I stayed on because I still loved it. The minute megacorp took away my assignment, I walked out.

 

[LateToFIRE]

The following is my impression only:

I think you should find a very good counselor/ therapist and deal with your emotional (attachment or otherwise) issues. I would also get a very thorough physical. You sound very, very burnt out and perhaps - mildly depressed.

In your shoes, I would work on myself first, rather than external factors (other than perhaps taking a sabbatical/ or reduction of hours/ initiating an exercise-health program). You may indeed (eventually) find a change in career to be helpful, but it may be without addressing underlying issues - that loss of purpose/ fulfillment may persist.

+1, this is in line with what I was thinking as well.

 

[LateToFIRE]

Questions:

(1) For those of you who enjoyed your work for a part of your career & may have lost that at one point or another, how did you regain that enjoyment/fulfillment/[insert appropriate noun here]?

(2) Everyone who I speak with IRL finds their purpose in life through their children. As that will not be in the cards for me, I'm wondering: especially for those of you who are not parents, how did you find your fulfillment, purpose, or meaning in your life?

(3) From what I've written above, are there any hobbies I should be looking at or volunteer causes that I should be evaluating? I want to create something, but I don't know what that is. Knowing myself, if I don't have a hobby or something that I work towards, I will spend the day on the couch and watch Netflix. Days of the pandemic were like this, and while they were very relaxing, I want to work towards something.

(4) For any of you who have considered permanent residency outside of the US as you get older, I'd be all ears to hear what you decided. The level of respect I see in countries outside of the US to our elders makes me realize that while I'm grateful to have received a US education & salary, living here likely isn't in the cards when I'm 50 and beyond.

(1) I've definitely been classified as workaholic (by DW, the person who knows me best), been that way both in childhood and adulthood, and have chosen intensive educational and career paths as a result. But, that has also meant bouts of burn-out from time to time, where exhausted, bored, and lacking in motivation. What I've learned now, is that the burn-out is usually telling me that I've either exhausted the usefulness of a certain path or role, and/or that I have not been approaching it in a sustainable way. I would see your disconnecting your work and life as a healthy thing not a negative - you were likely expending a level of energy and commitment that was not sustainable over the long run, perhaps in an attempt to emulate your father. But, his way, is not the only way to be. I usually regained my enthusiasm by making changes - role change, new responsibilities, career change, job change, new outside project/investment, modified work-life balance, etc.

(2) Wife and I are definitely not those people - you just need to meet other people who have managed to have both a fulfilling family life and accomplish other significant things in their lives - it is absolutely possible, though less common.

(3) No ideas for you - this is such a personal thing, would be a waste of time to simply throw ideas against the wall.

(4) Yes, have considered, but DW not remotely interested, so that's that. Closest thing would be that we've entertained the idea of spending a couple months abroad each year in retirement. I think a permanent relocation probably a lot harder than it looks. And suspect you have to have a adventurous, people-oriented, highly-flexible personality to make it work.