Philosophical Question: Calling people "Stupid" "Moron" etc.

[Amethyst]

"Stooges," indeed! Maybe they happened on some old 3 Stooges re-runs?

My Mother literally would not allow me to view the Stooges, because they treated each other so horribly and called each other names. Of course I saw them on TV at other kids' houses, but Mom's indoctrination was so effective, I couldn't enjoy them.

Back in the 1980's, when my sister was raising two boys, she noticed the older one calling the younger one a moron, idiot, and other descriptors that had never been uttered in the house. She was left wondering where that came from. The kids hadn't gotten out much, always supervised, and too young for school. It turns out the Disney "bad guys" have been made bad by yelling these things at their stooges. Highly charged lines, and kids are sponges.

 

[Lsbcal]

"Stooges," indeed! Maybe they happened on some old 3 Stooges re-runs?

My Mother literally would not allow me to view the Stooges, because they treated each other so horribly and called each other names. Of course I saw them on TV at other kids' houses, but Mom's indoctrination was so effective, I couldn't enjoy them.

Your Mom raised a healthy daughter.

I never liked the 3 Stooges. They seemed so moronic and predictable.

 

[brett]

If you know my sister in law then you would know the answer to this question.

 

[Amethyst]

I think so. Thank goodness she didn't spoil the Marx Brothers, Jonathan Winter, Robin Williams etc. for me. I love absurdist humor.

Your Mom raised a healthy daughter.

I never liked the 3 Stooges. They seemed so moronic and predictable.

 

[iloveyoga]

As the oldest of six kids, we were NOT allowed to call each other names, so it still surprises me when I hear name calling as an adult. I'm sure Mom and Dad did it to help keep the peace, but it is also a good habit.

 

[RapmasterD]

Labeling

Labels are for soup cans, not people.

If you want to label a BEHAVIOR, as opposed to the person...have at it. EX: “Wow, it’s a bit frightening how many people are behaving in a willfully ignorant fashion these days, and not acknowledging lessons from history.”

But the way I see it, the harshness of said label speaks more to the labeler than the one being labeled.

 

[morriss003]

People can be stupid on one issue and quite intelligent on another.

 

[morriss003]

"Stooges," indeed! Maybe they happened on some old 3 Stooges re-runs?

My Mother literally would not allow me to view the Stooges, because they treated each other so horribly and called each other names. Of course I saw them on TV at other kids' houses, but Mom's indoctrination was so effective, I couldn't enjoy them.

I always thought the Stooges were a guy thing.

 

[Old Microbiologist]

I have always had serious trouble recognizing actual low IQ from people who are in the higher segment. I, and most of the people I associate with, are in the above 130 IQ range and my wife and I both score above 148 consistently. Because in my work I always was surrounded by people with high IQ's (research scientists) but I was in the military so was also surrounded by low IQ people outside my local environment, and often senior ranked officers who through some natural talent were able to scam the system to get advanced degrees without actually being intelligent. This was a serious problem for me to identify who was who and you can't make assumptions for example, that someone with a PhD is actually smart.

I got interested in this when I had repeated failures to be able to communicate effectively with people because they simple were incapable of understanding what I was trying to communicate. In my early career I was an enlisted Special Forces (arguably a higher than average group) but frequently ran into problems with superiors who were simply incapable of understanding complex problems. To nudge them in the right direction was and is a serious challenge and to do so effectively without insulting them an actual art form. After I received my PhD later in life, I was put in charge of screening the entire military for HIV and established a laboratory to do that and part of that mission was to teach the entire military about sexually transmitted diseases and how to use condoms. This was an especially tricky subject and it was thrust on me. My lab unit then went to every military base in the world and drew blood samples and assembled the entire uniformed population by unit in movie theaters on base (all ranks and genders). I (or my Sergeant a beautiful petite blonde female Staff Sergeant but highly intelligent) then gave a 30 minute lecture on the subjects and then demonstrated the proper wear and use of a condom using a dildo. I kid you not! I learned how to dumb it down fairly quickly but was several times called into the base commander's (or Division Commander's) office and dressed down on my simple and somewhat vulgar language I used; however, when I explained the problem they usually (but not always) understood. It was a rough assignment and actually was an additional duty as my real "job" was Director of the Microbiology laboratory at our post's (Army it is a Post and Navy/Air Force it is a base) medical center. I actually received a Meritorious Service Medal for doing all of that. It was a difficult two year assignment. However, my speaking abilities improved dramatically and served me well later in my career especially at scientific conferences where I was always a popular speaker as I lecture using no notes (just slides) and have a natural language flow when describing extremely complex research. So, I can recognize the skill set in others when they speak. Trump, Putin and Bill Clinton have this skill. Obama, and Bush(s) did not just to name a few examples for comparison.

My point is that I had to adjust my thinking to be able to speak down at a sufficient level to get the mission accomplished which was to lower HIV infection rates and to eliminate the infected from the military and I had to learn this fast. It was tough in the early days as so many had become infected through blood transfusions before screening tests were developed. Part of my job was to sit down with the individuals infected (as part of a 3 man team including myself (the lab director), a clinical Psychiatrist, and infectious disease physician (usually a friend). We identified several thousand people who were unknowingly infected and in the early days this was a death sentence. Again, I had to learn how to present this to patients who were often incapable of understanding the issues at hand. Not a fun job but you adapt quickly. No one likes to learn they were infected and will die and this also included children who had received transfusions during surgery. Surprisingly, most accepted it with grace but not all. You can't sue the military for medical malpractice because of the Gonzales Act. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/1089

During this process I was surprised to learn that in the US the average IQ is under 98. The scores are of course controversial and there are ethic questions about the methodologies used to establish this but in the military it has been a fairly consistent test used over the years and in general serves us well. The US is in general 10 points below many other countries and it shows.

I also agree with the premise of people acting deliberately stupid. Some political leaders do that deliberately to speak to their base which likely is comprised of people with less than 98 IQ's. Remember 50% of the population is below that so are incapable of understanding complex problems and likely do not have a sophisticated vocabulary. These politicians are then assumed to be stupid themselves but in fact it is an assumed facade. Perhaps if they wear it too long they actually become stupid? I say that in earnest as my sister-in-law is technically a genius but practically she is stupid because she hid her intelligence for so long and pretended to be dumber than she was for so many years she has actually become an idiot. She is 80 now and unable to understand many things but has been this way for a very long time. I don't think this is "normal" cognitive decline as she can, at will, argue intelligently but in general still acts and speaks like a simple minded person.

 

[Lienlord]

They may be a friggin’ rocket surgeon, but if they are still stopped in front of me after the traffic light turns green while they’re looking down texting, they will probably get called a “silly poo-poo head” or some more colorful variation of that!

 

[Rianne]

What does an IQ test measure? Intelligence? I don't think so. I prefer to observe or invest my time in people with gifts (best way I can describe a personality attribute). IQ is deceiving as is Mensa membership. it's BS. Using terms like stupid, dumb, moron can make a gifted talented person lose confidence. Sadly, many people allow others to bully them into believing their intelligence is less than it should be.



My favorite comeback as a kid was "bounced off me and stuck to you" when anyone (mostly my brothers) called me these childish terms. I use those terms in private to express frustration. Certainly never to ones face.

 

[skipro33]

I won't call anyone stupid, moron, idiot, fool, immature. But I will remind them that they are acting like one. Reminding someone they are acting immature is quite a bit different than calling them immature. It implies that I give them credit their behavior is deliberate and to stop it.

 

[skipro33]

But what about the folks that are willfully ignorant?!

I consider this to be more like a prejudice. Not all are bad, you know. Example; I happen to know my grand kids are the most beautiful grand kids on the planet. It's my prejudice and while others may disagree to the point of thinking I should pitch a tent and sell tickets to see them, it shields me from distancing myself from them.

 

[Amethyst]

You certainly were handed an arresting challenge! At work, I once had to speak on a sexually-tinged topic. I tried to make the language euphemistic without misleading my audience.

Anyway, I was 27, briefing men twice my age, who reacted with red faces and chuckling. I couldn't believe my eyes. My boss (also male and in his 50's) told me he had not seen this reaction coming, or he would have given the talk himself. I can imagine what your Sergeant had to put up with - at least I didn't have to demonstrate a dildo!

Incidentally, your use of "but" is interesting, as if the two descriptions might be seen as mutually exclusive

a beautiful petite blonde female Staff Sergeant but highly intelligent

As a child, I read that MLK Jr. was able to change his speaking style to fit whichever audience he addressed: Black, White, educated, or little education. It made an impression on me that a grownup could need to learn to speak several different versions of his native tongue.

I have learned that audiences at every education level prefer short words and direct statements, and nearly everyone likes an anecdote with some emotion in it.

I also agree with the premise of people acting deliberately stupid. Some political leaders do that deliberately to speak to their base

Were you thinking of any politician in particular? Never mind.... I believe that some who are labeled "Moron," etc. are merely cynical about whom they want to reach, and whom they don't give a rap about.

 

[Nemo2]

In a previous life, as a Telco sales rep, a female rep was transferring a major account over to me - the company contact invited us both to lunch, and before he departed for the washroom, announced that he "Highly recommended the Kwish (quiche)".

During his absence we decided that, since she was on the way out, she would ask for the quiche and I'd just say "Me too".

Words are very often dependent on the audience and the circumstances.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

If it's not OK today (and never was) to make fun of people for being blind, Deaf, physically handicapped in some way, or mentally challenged such as having Down syndrome or autism,

Why is it still OK (apparently, since it is extremely common) to call people "stupid" or "moron"? To say things like, "You can't fix stupid"? "I'm surrounded by idiots," etc. Is this not mocking an intellectual disability?

It is NOT OK to "make fun of people for being blind, Deaf, physically handicapped in some way". Not OK at all!

Why, folks with those issues had not much control in the way they were afflicted with them, at least generally.

Being a Moron, Acting Stupid or or doing idiotic things makes it perfectly acceptable to be called those titles, as they are usually earned by doing something deemed stupid, idiotic or Moronic. Self inflicted in other words.

Sometimes we all do stupid things, and I BET that we, in those circumstances are the first to call ourselves stupid idiots.

I am English, we chastise each other continuously, when in similar company and have done so for ages, as have the Australians and some Europeans. We only calm down a little when in the company of more sensitive folks, we make those analysis on the fly as needed.

BUT, there is an unwritten rule. "NEVER make fun of people with respect to things THEY CANNOT Control". The first paragraph copied from the OP's post above falls into that category. Those who do so are Morons.

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

Can confirm a couple people that are not disabled in any way are morons.

 

[Amethyst]

So, in summary: It is not OK to call morons, morons. But it is OK to call non-morons, morons.

Did I read that correctly?

It is NOT OK to "make fun of people for being blind, Deaf, physically handicapped in some way". Not OK at all!

Why, folks with those issues had not much control in the way they were afflicted with them, at least generally.

Being a Moron, Acting Stupid or or doing idiotic things makes it perfectly acceptable to be called those titles, as they are usually earned by doing something deemed stupid, idiotic or Moronic. Self inflicted in other words.

Sometimes we all do stupid things, and I BET that we, in those circumstances are the first to call ourselves stupid idiots.

I am English, we chastise each other continuously, when in similar company and have done so for ages, as have the Australians and some Europeans. We only calm down a little when in the company of more sensitive folks, we make those analysis on the fly as needed.

BUT, there is an unwritten rule. "NEVER make fun of people with respect to things THEY CANNOT Control". The first paragraph copied from the OP's post above falls into that category. Those who do so are Morons.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

So, in summary: It is not OK to call morons, morons. But it is OK to call non-morons, morons.

Did I read that correctly?

Basically yes, if they have a disability, it is definitely offensive. Those that obviously berate, mimic or insult those with disabilities can freely be called Stupid Morons.

 

[Gumby]

Basically yes, if they have a disability, it is definitely offensive. Those that obviously berate, mimic or insult those with disabilities can freely be called Stupid Morons.

You may also call them bloody prats.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

I lecture using no notes (just slides) and have a natural language flow when describing extremely complex research. So, I can recognize the skill set in others when they speak. Trump, Putin and Bill Clinton have this skill. Obama, and Bush(s) did not just to name a few examples for comparison.

Your definition of "natural language flow" evidently differs from mine.

 

[34rlsa]

 

[ShokWaveRider]

You may also call them bloody prats.

Ha Ha .... A lot of Americans do not know what that REALLY means. Kinda like "Bu$$er". Us Britts can have fun with that, (and in my case have had).

 

[Amethyst]

I do that even when I think the person wasn't deliberately trying to be foolish, immature, etc. - in other words, when i believe it's just the way they've learned to act. It's not my business to identify why they are doing the wrong or stupid thing. It's my business to get them to stop doing it, at least around me.

Reminding someone they are acting immature is quite a bit different than calling them immature. It implies that I give them credit their behavior is deliberate and to stop it.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it. -Edith Sitwell, poet (1887-1964)