Purchasing Art

[Geld ist Freiheit]

I'm confident there are some members out there that can educate me in the area of purchasing art. Many thanks in advance.

Let's say you found a piece you like and the gallery lists it for $2,500. Is that a firm price or is it more like MRSP on a car?

Is trying to negotiate considered uncouth in the art world?

If there's more than one that has your interest is a discount out of the question if you were to buy both?

Are artist's proofs really worth more being "closer to the hand" as they say?

It would not be purchased as an investment. Much like trying to resell a diamond, I wouldn't expect to recoup the money. It would be solely for my pleasure.

That being said, if it is the image itself that brings you joy, would you be just as happy buying a poster of the same thing at a fraction of the price?

 

[Brat]

See my PM.

 

[Nemo2]

The article linked below pertains to purchasing 'art' aboard ship(s), (something we have never done, nor would we ever do), but I'd think it likely provides an indication as to the overall pricing/sales thereof:

https://www.format.com/magazine/features/art/cruise-ship-art-auctions-controversy

Basically it's a product...the buyer wants to pay less, the seller wants to get more.

 

[Geld ist Freiheit]

Interesting article.
I've been on a few cruises (all on different lines) and don't recall there being art auctions on any of them. If there were I'm sure I dismissed them without a second thought.
Seems like it's a half notch above a timeshare presentation.

 

[Nemo2]

Interesting article.
I've been on a few cruises (all on different lines) and don't recall there being art auctions on any of them. If there were I'm sure I dismissed them without a second thought.
Seems like it's a half notch above a timeshare presentation.

We've been aware of, (but have never attended), a few of them - (one on a HAL ship, a Norwegian, and IIRC the other on a Celebrity).......selected areas on particular, relatively heavy traffic I presume, decks are festooned with 'art', (most of it, to our unenlightened eyes, crap).

All the sales/marketing techniques are employed.......make the attendee feel 'special'....("Look at me, I'm attending an art auction.....I must exhibit discerning taste").....etc. etc.....as noted above, it's a product....to be unloaded at the highest price obtainable.

Numerous artists, over the years, Van Gogh, Toulouse-Lautrec, and others, I believe, used their works to settle bar bills.

 

[Geld ist Freiheit]

Onboard, lots of people are in the "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" mindset. Couple that with the ever present drive to increase shipboard revenue and things are going to happen.
My first cruise was on Carnival years ago. It was good value for the money but they lived up to their name. Every day the "carnival barker" was on the PA system calling everyone to the midway for the daily "you're a fool if you miss this" deal - gold chain by the inch one day, souvenir clothes the next (many undisclosed factory 2nds).
Got to be a bit of a turn off but as you point out, there job is to push product.

 

[Nemo2]

If you do submit an offer, be prepared for the [-]salesman[/-] art dealer to imply (or state outright) that you are nothing more than a bourgeois philistine, incapable of appreciating sensitive creativity...........a technique successfully utilized by French waiters worldwide.

 

[flintnational]

It would be solely for my pleasure.

That being said, if it is the image itself that brings you joy, would you be just as happy buying a poster of the same thing at a fraction of the price?

Yes, that is what we did. We own, Audubons, Van Goghs and Picassos. All are prints from Art.com. Sized to fit the space needed, framed, matted and shipped to our door for around $150 - $250 each. They have deep discount sales. Wait for one if you are interested. You now know all I know about art.

 

[DayDreaming]

I'm confident there are some members out there that can educate me in the area of purchasing art. Many thanks in advance.

Let's say you found a piece you like and the gallery lists it for $2,500. Is that a firm price or is it more like MRSP on a car?

Is trying to negotiate considered uncouth in the art world?

It depends on the gallery.
A gallery in Manhattan is very different than a small town art gallery.
If you really like the piece and are serious about buying it, I don't think it would hurt to ask if there's any wiggle room on the price.

If there's more than one that has your interest is a discount out of the question if you were to buy both?

In my own experience, yes, that can help you get a discount.

Are artist's proofs really worth more being "closer to the hand" as they say?

The print market is very strange and I don't think an artist's proof should be worth more than any other print in the edition. If you're buying an internationally known artist and planning to resell that print someday, then maybe the A/P is worth more, but if you're buying the print for your own enjoyment, then no.

It would not be purchased as an investment. Much like trying to resell a diamond, I wouldn't expect to recoup the money. It would be solely for my pleasure.

That being said, if it is the image itself that brings you joy, would you be just as happy buying a poster of the same thing at a fraction of the price?

That's entirely up to you!
For me, an original oil painting is much more appealing than a print or poster of that painting. For watercolors, sometimes a good print looks nearly identical to the original. Again, since you're buying for your own enjoyment, it's your call.

 

[CardsFan]

I have some friends (retired couple) that make a side living in the art fair world. They only do 10-12 shows a year (mostly mid-west and southeast), and have progressed to producing some fantastic metal sculptures. Prices can range from $75 to $2,500 depending on the size and complexity of the piece. These are shows that you need to be "judged" into, so they are several steps above the normal "craft" fair.

At these events, you are dealing directly with the artist (they are specifically required to be there), not a dealer or salesman. So, from what I have seen at these shows, and from my friends:
- the low ticket items are pretty firm. They are kind of a loss leader to start with
- the higher the price, the more negotiating room, but don't expect much more than 10%
- if you are buying multiple large, expensive pieces, then there is more room to negotiate, particularly on the last day of the show.
- the larger and more elaborate the piece, the more the price reflects artistic value, rather than "how much do I have into it in time and materials".

Good luck with your art purchases.

 

[Brat]

DH & I purchased artwork such as rubbings while traveling in Asia and we commissioned a large metal sculpture to hang on a wall many years ago. Keep in mind the fact that if the art piece will need framing that cost is not insignificant. We didn't negotiate with the poor artists of Asia, it wouldn't have been just.

The metal sculpture was commissioned from an artist just beginning his career. DH, who is an architect, sketched out what he envisioned and asked the artist how much he would charge. The price was quite reasonable, maybe $500 30 years ago, for a piece that could be anchored on a piece of plywood. The artist asked that we not share the price. We sold it with our Bainbridge Island home as we didn't anticipate having a wall that would accommodate it.

I agree that the higher the asking price the more negotiable is the sales price.

You can search artists by name, even asking your local art museum if they know the artist. The better known the artist the higher the likely sales price.

A former neighbor on BI owns Davidson Galleries in Seattle. I understand he has a following so you could start your research online for prints at his website.

O'Gallerie in Portland often has the work of named artists in their auctions. You can even search sold prices with pictures & description using their search engine. O'Gallerie has one advantage on the west coast: both Washington and California has sales tax, Oregon does not.

When we downsized one issue for us was the lack of wall space for our artwork in new construction. The place we landed has a 'traditional' layout and the halls on each floor are the responsibility of that floor's residents to decorate. One neighbor, a retired professor of art, has 'loaned' some of his collection for those walls.

 

[Souschef]

My "art collection" consists of 2 pieces. a beautiful painting I bought in China for about $25, then spent over $100 having it double matted and framed.
The other is a glicee of a scene in Santorini (where we got married). That piece was bought at a Princess art sale.
I have followed the tales of Park West for years, especially with the Dali pieces.I will say no more.

 

[W2R]

For me, much of the fun in buying art is the process of searching through antique or used furniture stores, flea markets, junk shops, garage sales, and more, for months, looking for something cheap that simply blows me away.

Almost all of my paintings and sculptures were under $50, and not mass produced. I think the oil painting over my sofa, which is a lovely and large amateur copy of a Monet, was around $90 or so.

To address the original questions posed, in New Orleans, you bargain for everything. It's expected.

 

[Badbreath]

Know that you are not really buying real art done by the artist. My DW worked for Park West Gallery shown in the photo in the article. They have been sued many times for selling fake art.

 

[CardsFan]

Know that you are not really buying real art done by the artist. My DW worked for Park West Gallery shown in the photo in the article. They have been sued many times for selling fake art.

Which is another reason to search for art at shows where the Artist MUST be present. FWIW, I am not plugging for my buddy, he needs to cut back and enjoy retirement. But through him we have met many artists that rely on this as income to live. Many are very good, and we have bought many pieces from them. There are a few shills that sneak into these, but the real artists call them out and get them banned.

Now, if you are looking for an investment, this is not the place for you. But, if you just want some original art that is to your liking, I highly recommend these shows.

 

[GravitySucks]

I got the Monet above the couch on art.com; I don't think it's original.

 

[CardsFan]

I got the Monet above the couch on art.com; I don't think it's original.

Don't you think you should at least check?

Antique Roadshow, here we come.

 

[W2R]

I got the Monet above the couch on art.com; I don't think it's original.

Mine was. I got it in an antique/junk shop, and it's a hand done, original attempt at copying a Monet. Pretty easy to tell.

Edited to add: WOW, they have the same Monet! But theirs is just a print, and mine is oil paint, painted very thickly too, and came mounted with a cheap frame, as you can see. I'll bet the paint cost more than I paid for it.

 

[Geld ist Freiheit]

I got the Monet above the couch on art.com; I don't think it's original.

Someone replaced your couch with a cheap copy?
[emoji13]

 

[Geld ist Freiheit]

If you do submit an offer, be prepared for the [-]salesman[/-] art dealer to imply (or state outright) that you are nothing more than a bourgeois philistine, incapable of appreciating sensitive creativity...........a technique successfully utilized by French waiters worldwide.

But I am a bourgeois philistine so it works out.

 

[Sunset]

Interesting article.
I've been on a few cruises (all on different lines) and don't recall there being art auctions on any of them. If there were I'm sure I dismissed them without a second thought.
Seems like it's a half notch above a timeshare presentation.

We have been on 2 Carnival cruises in the Caribbean and both had art auctions.
They give you free champagne, as drinking helps you make good decisions
We didn't buy anything, and it seemed like they had an endless supply of whatever painting you wanted.
I did see people spend a few thousand, and it seemed pretty stupid to me.

 

[Brat]

In my town if you could have acquired the doodles of Matt Groening or Will Vinton when they were in high school and annoying their teachers you would be prescient.

From time to time the paintings of William Samuel Parrott or Eliza Barchus can be found at auction. If you love landscapes of the early west they are treasures.

 

[harley]

I get all my art at the Ocean Gallery in Ocean City MD. High end stuff in a refined environment.

 

[GravitySucks]

I get all my art at the Ocean Gallery in Ocean City MD. High end stuff in a refined environment.

DW did buy a sailboat painting there.