Running Fridge/Lights from LEAF

[NW-Bound]

One saves money by buying individual LFP cells, then assembling them into packs. A 100Ah x 3.2V cell from CALB runs $155, making a 12V pack $620. You then need to do your own cell balancing circuit, or at least keep an eye on them.

PS. LFP chemistry is approved for use on aircraft due to its tame behavior to abuse, compared to other chemistries such as used in the Tesla.

 

[samclem]

And for solar install at my camp I then I'd need the custom charger. My Golf cart storage batteries are on their last legs. Still I'll consider it. No water level checks are a plus.

Looking at one spec., claims 5000 deep cycles, or around ten to twleve year life.

I'd be reluctant to spend $600-$1000 for batteries to be installed in a dwelling that is remote and remains unattended. Heavy, cheap lead acid batteries would seem to be a lot less attractive targets for theft.

 

[ls99]

I'd be reluctant to spend $600-$1000 for batteries to be installed in a dwelling that is remote and remains unattended. Heavy, cheap lead acid batteries would seem to be a lot less attractive targets for theft.

In last five years no problems, driveway is about a 1/4 mile. There are several of

these around. Of course it is no guarantee to deter someone determined. Besides if they steal them they will likely destroy them in short order by overcharging. Hey, it is only money.

 

[travelover]

Seeing as this thread is in full drift, I found this interesting and maybe more to Trombone Al's original question. There was a company, evidently now defunct, that made an inverter that could be plugged directly into the big battery on a hybrid or fully electric car using a plug. The output is 220 volts, so you could run your whole house off from it. With a hybrid, the engine could be left running and it would start itself and shut off as needed to maintain the battery charge. Hybrids have a whopping big generating capacity, so this would be miles ahead of the 12 volt battery running a little 110 volt inverter.


https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/running-our-house-on-prius-power

 

[ls99]

Seeing as this thread is in full drift, I found this interesting and maybe more to Trombone Al's original question. There was a company, evidently now defunct, that made an inverter that could be plugged directly into the big battery on a hybrid or fully electric car using a plug. The output is 220 volts, so you could run your whole house off from it. With a hybrid, the engine could be left running and it would start itself and shut off as needed to maintain the battery charge. Hybrids have a whopping big generating capacity, so this would be miles ahead of an inverter hooked up to the 12 volt battery running a little 110 volt inverter.


https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/running-our-house-on-prius-power

Followed link to the named inverter's mfg. 404 error.


For a minute I thought to get crashed hybrid and the inverter.

 

[travelover]

Followed link to the named inverter's mfg. 404 error.


For a minute I thought to get crashed hybrid and the inverter.

Yea, too bad. Gotta be a supplier out there that makes something equivalent.

 

[NW-Bound]

Converdant is indeed no longer in business.


Search on the Web revealed a review of one of the devices by a gearhead: https://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/plugout/.


Here's a photo of a 3KVA unit from the above link. It weighs 80-90 lbs.

Getting access to the high DC voltage of the battery pack requires some disassembly, and is not for the faint of heart: https://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/batbox/.

 

[NW-Bound]

On closer look, the use of a hybrid car as a genset/battery storage combo leaves a lot to be desired. It's because the battery capacity is too small, requiring the engine to start/stop quite often to recharge it.

The early versions of the Prius used NiMH cells, and the entire pack weighing 93 lbs only stored 1.3 kWh. That's the same as the LFP batteries shown in my earlier post (100Ah @ 12.8V). Moreover, the car tries to keep the battery at about 50% state of charge, in order to allow room for brake regen. So, you have only a few 100Wh's before the engine has to start up.

It is not really fair to compare a hybrid car battery to a utility LFP battery, because the former has to provide large power bursts to accelerate the car, as well as absorb large currents during brake regen. The electric motor/generator on the Prius is rated at 67HP, while the LFP batteries I showed earlier can source a max of 200A at 12.8V, which is a bit more than 3HP. One battery is built for power, while the other is built for storage.

PS. The current Prius uses a Li-ion battery with 4.4kWh capacity. It's better and a bit more usable, but still on the smallish side. And the voltage is higher than the old NiMH pack at 350V vs. 200V.

 

[gstillson]

There is a new packaged Lithium battery solution from a big manufacturer, Trojan battery, called the Trojan Trillium.

It is 12V 92AH, waterproof, full protections for under/overcharging, over discharging, etc. Rated for 5000 cycles and even has CAN communications for monitoring status. Can be paralleled to 48V and series connected as well for very large banks. About $750 each.

 

[travelover]

On closer look, the use of a hybrid car as a genset/battery storage combo leaves a lot to be desired. ......

Interesting points. I think as a source of emergency power it would be attractive as you don't need to have a separate generator or battery and you'd always have fresh gas in the vehicle. For $1000 or so, I'd be interested if I still had a hybrid.

 

[NW-Bound]

Yabut, the 500Wh working energy of the battery of the original Prius is quite small. Of course for emergency use one cannot be a choosy beggar, but for any extended use period one will find it wanting.

By the way, I thought that 500Wh of working energy awfully little for a hybrid car battery, so did a simple calculation to answer this question: What is the energy to accelerate a car from rest to 60 mph, and conversely the energy recovered by brake regen from 60mph to stop?

The answer for a car of 3,500 lbs is 158 Wh. A lot less than what one would think. This simple calculation ignores other losses such as tire friction and air drag losses, which will be small due to the short duration of the acceleration period.

But once the car reaches this speed of 60mph , maintaining this speed by fighting tire friction and air drag will cost about 300 Wh per mile, judging from the typical performance of EVs. A power consumption of 300Wh in 1 mile or 1 min is 18 kW. It's huge, compared to the power consumption of a large home with AC running, stoves burning, water heater boiling, all at the same time.

A "green" society would ban all personal cars, EVs or ICEs.

 

[segfault]

What do you do if the power's out for a week and the Leaf's internal battery depletes?

I have a 1500w gasoline inverter generator. It's small, it's quiet, and it's enough to run my natural gas furnace. I'm pretty sure it would also run my fridge, Internet/TV, and some LED lamps at the same time, although I have not tried it. Supposedly, it will run for something like ten hours at a half load. I don't have a whole house transfer switch--just one on the furnace, but have plenty of extension cords, should the need arise.

I live in the city, so I'm unlikely to experience an extended outage, however, people not far from me lost power for about a day this past winter, so it's worth having a backup. Also, it's insurance against Murphy's law--the mere fact of possessing the generator will probably prevent power outages, or at the very minimum, ensure that the outages end right about the time I get the generator set up and running.

 

[Walt34]

Also, it's insurance against Murphy's law--the mere fact of possessing the generator will probably prevent power outages, or at the very minimum, ensure that the outages end right about the time I get the generator set up and running.

That's what I thought for a while too, but it seems things don't quite work that way.

When I bought my first snowblower we didn't see a single snowflake for four years. Then the Law Of Averages caught up big time and I was wondering if I shouldn't have bought a bigger one.

 

[NW-Bound]

What do you do if the power's out for a week and the Leaf's internal battery depletes?

The LEAF battery is not likely to last one week. You would still need a generator, but a decent-sized battery such as one inside an EV can store enough juice so that you may be able to run a generator a few hours each day instead of 24/7.

It's not just the noise, but the frequent feeding of the generator and the fuel consumption would be less demanding.