How to add the generator power input to the switch

[ERD50]

This is the way I look at it: There is normally no need to ground rod the generator under stand alone use.

With the gen connected to the house wiring sans ground wire in the cable, the case of the gen is still protected from an internal fault and any external fault up to the plug connection a few inches from my service entrance via the gen's GFCI. Once power is fed into the breaker box (via conduit), the neutral wire is tied to earth gnd inside the box. Therefore all house equipment, including GFCI's work just as if the power company's source is there. It may not meet electrical code but should be just as safe. ....

Still not sounding right to me.

"work just as if the power company's source is there." - no, the utility is grounded as well.

--- had something written up, but may have missed that N-G are tied in the home - I'll rethink this...

OK, I do think house GFCI would work in this condition. And a dead short on a non-GFCI should trip the house circuit breaker. As normal.

Ahhh, I think the mfg concern is, they put a GFCI on the generator, and that is expected to protect everything connected to the generator. But disconnecting the ground between house and generator means that non-GFCI circuits in the house would not be protected by the generator's GFCI. The Hot-to-Ground fault current would just flow back through the Neutral.

That's no worse off than you were w/o a GFCI on the circuit anyhow.

Hmm, so why does that mfg offer a kit to isolate the Neutral-Ground in the generator? I'm guessing that any other suggestion they make (like a cord with the ground wire cut?) could be dangerous to use with something other than their generator, and they'd get sued for it for suggesting this external mod? By providing a kit and labels, their lawyers told them that limits their liability?

-ERD50

 

[BasketCase24]

I find it hard to believe that someone wise and wealthy enough to be on this site would take chances with their lives on a Jerry-rigged electrical configuration. FIRE is supposed to stand for Financially Independent Retired Early, not FIRE! like you can’t shout in a theater! My brother died in a house fire when I was 8 because my dad made unsafe electrical configurations.

Don’t be penny wise and dead, I beg you. Get an electrician to do it right.

 

[CRLLS]

Still not sounding right to me.

"work just as if the power company's source is there." - no, the utility is grounded as well.

--- had something written up, but may have missed that N-G are tied in the home - I'll rethink this...

OK, I do think house GFCI would work in this condition. And a dead short on a non-GFCI should trip the house circuit breaker. As normal.

Ahhh, I think the mfg concern is, they put a GFCI on the generator, and that is expected to protect everything connected to the generator. But disconnecting the ground between house and generator means that non-GFCI circuits in the house would not be protected by the generator's GFCI. The Hot-to-Ground fault current would just flow back through the Neutral.

That's no worse off than you were w/o a GFCI on the circuit anyhow.

Hmm, so why does that mfg offer a kit to isolate the Neutral-Ground in the generator? I'm guessing that any other suggestion they make (like a cord with the ground wire cut?) could be dangerous to use with something other than their generator, and they'd get sued for it for suggesting this external mod? By providing a kit and labels, their lawyers told them that limits their liability?

-ERD50

I was always taught that labels may help to mitigate a dangerous situation, but labels do not make it inherently any less dangerous.

I see you have the same analysis that I did. I feel somewhat vindicated. Although I would entertain differing opinions. That being said, I do have the cable labeled "ground disconnected" on both ends just in case somebody steals it or after I leave this earth, my kids try to use it for something other than it's "intended use". The gen is the only piece of equipment that I have that has a L14-30R connection.

 

[38Chevy454]

I find it hard to believe that someone wise and wealthy enough to be on this site would take chances with their lives on a Jerry-rigged electrical configuration. FIRE is supposed to stand for Financially Independent Retired Early, not FIRE! like you can’t shout in a theater! My brother died in a house fire when I was 8 because my dad made unsafe electrical configurations.

Don’t be penny wise and dead, I beg you. Get an electrician to do it right.

There are many of us on the board here that are competent and can do it right without an electrician. Each person must know their limitations. If you are not comfortable DIY, then hire it out.

 

[travelover]

I find it hard to believe that someone wise and wealthy enough to be on this site would take chances with their lives on a Jerry-rigged electrical configuration. ........

You are new here. Stick around.

 

[CRLLS]

I find it hard to believe that someone wise and wealthy enough to be on this site would take chances with their lives on a Jerry-rigged electrical configuration. FIRE is supposed to stand for Financially Independent Retired Early, not FIRE! like you can’t shout in a theater! My brother died in a house fire when I was 8 because my dad made unsafe electrical configurations.

Don’t be penny wise and dead, I beg you. Get an electrician to do it right.

I am sorry to hear about your brother.

I didn't know that wise and wealthy was a requirement here.

I'm all for safe and alive. However, that doesn't necessarily require a licensed and/or union electrician. I have fixed enough screwups where homeowners did their own electrical work though. I agree, if you aren't capable/knowledgeable, seek out a mentor to show you the safe way or hire an electrician.

 

[Souschef]

Slightly OT. My last electrical job was to add a security light to our garage. I figured out all I needed, then went on line to find pictures of each item. I cut and pasted all of it to a sheet of paper and took it to the local hardware store. It made getting the help there to find everything much easier.

 

[ncbill]

I find it hard to believe that someone wise and wealthy enough to be on this site would take chances with their lives on a Jerry-rigged electrical configuration. FIRE is supposed to stand for Financially Independent Retired Early, not FIRE! like you can’t shout in a theater! My brother died in a house fire when I was 8 because my dad made unsafe electrical configurations.

Don’t be penny wise and dead, I beg you. Get an electrician to do it right.

There's nothing jerry-rigged about modifying a furnace powered by being hardwired to a switch to a flexible cord that plugs into a standard duplex outlet controlled by that switch...and I've already got an outlet controlled by that switch (condensate pump plugged into one socket)

Code doesn't require the furnace to be hardwired, it's just recommended.

 

[teetee]

Here is a question that I can use some input.

I have a forced-air furnace that relies on 110v power for the fans to do their thing. Recently we had a power outage (nor'easter in New England area). This is the first year I start using a small portable gas inverter generator (WEN 56225i 2250W peak 1800W sustained) to keep the fridge and network equipment on during the outage.

I realized that if the power outage occurs when it's below 0F outside, things can get dicey (frozen pipes and frozen toes) so adding a receptacle to the furnace for the generator input seems to be a reasonable thing to do.

Here is the photo of the existing conduit goes to the furnace. The switch is not working half of the time so I am thinking to replace it as well. I am not looking for a transfer switch at the circuit breaker.

Thanks for all the feedback and ideas. Here is the end result.

It was a straightforward task. I spent majority of the time removing the screws used to mount the old switch.

The tests for all three switch positions were successful.

 

[finnski1]

Thanks for all the feedback and ideas. Here is the end result.

It was a straightforward task. I spent majority of the time removing the screws used to mount the old switch.

The tests for all three switch positions were successful.

View attachment 40766

Well I've never seen that switch outlet combo at the local electrical supply store nor at Home Depot. Gotta believe you made that yourself? something like this?
https://www.shelllumber.com/raco-sq...o-mount-switches-or-receptacles-on-boxes.html

 

[teetee]

Well I've never seen that switch outlet combo at the local electrical supply store nor at Home Depot. Gotta believe you made that yourself? something like this?
https://www.shelllumber.com/raco-sq...o-mount-switches-or-receptacles-on-boxes.html

I wish I had the required fabricating skills or tools to make something like that. The new switch was purchased directly from a US based company. Google "ez generator switch" for more info. The name came up when I was searching on YouTube for a solution and the company has a channel for it. I replaced the old switch with it in place because the old one was semi faulty (no click sound and half of the time it did not make connection).

 

[finnski1]

I wish I had the required fabricating skills or tools to make something like that. The new switch was purchased directly from a US based company. Google "ez generator switch" for more info. The name came up when I was searching on YouTube for a solution and the company has a channel for it. I replaced the old switch with it in place because the old one was semi faulty (no click sound and half of the time it did not make connection).

Sure enough. Thanks.

 

[NW-Bound]

Thanks for all the feedback and ideas. Here is the end result.

It was a straightforward task. I spent majority of the time removing the screws used to mount the old switch.

The tests for all three switch positions were successful.

View attachment 40766

It's a neat solution.

Amazon shows this item at $95. Quite pricy.

I wonder if it is patented. Quite often, a simple device may be protected by a patent even if the design looks obvious. In fact, complex things are protected by trade secrets more than patents.

 

[spencnor]

Code doesn't require the furnace to be hardwired, it's just recommended.

…not really a recommendation. Refer to NEC code section 400.7 regarding the uses permitted for flexible cords. In general, fixed in place appliances, like furnaces, are to be hardwired. Sure a furnace can be wired and work fine with a flexible cord, but it would not be code compliant.

https://www.ecmweb.com/national-ele...888058/flexible-cords-cables-and-fixture-wire

“Appliances where the fastening means and mechanical connections are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance and repair, and the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord connections [422.16], but only when used with attachment plugs [400.7(B)].”

 

[finnski1]

It's a neat solution.

Amazon shows this item at $95. Quite pricy.

I wonder if it is patented. Quite often, a simple device may be protected by a patent even if the design looks obvious. In fact, complex things are protected by trade secrets more than patents.

Does seem a little pricey.

Doesn't really look any different than the one a few people posted earlier (other than it is a pretty green) that was $10 cheaper. but it is prettier.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-Furnace-Transfer-Switch-TF151/202216476

 

[CRLLS]

Nice, clean installation. Well done!

 

[youbet]

Does seem a little pricey.

Doesn't really look any different than the one a few people posted earlier (other than it is a pretty green) that was $10 cheaper. but it is prettier.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-Furnace-Transfer-Switch-TF151/202216476

The Reliance version, posted earlier, seems to be out of stock at the usual sites.

 

[youbet]

Thanks for all the feedback and ideas. Here is the end result.

It was a straightforward task. I spent majority of the time removing the screws used to mount the old switch.

The tests for all three switch positions were successful.

View attachment 40766

Nice job! And the solution seems to solve all the issues discussed in this thread!

 

[finnski1]

The Reliance version, posted earlier, seems to be out of stock at the usual sites.

Fair enough. If you can't get something it ain't worth much.

 

[SnowballCamper]

I just have to add, if you have come to this thread to find out how to hook up a generator, you're in the wrong place. You should start here https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-stan...ds/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70

And when you realize you're in over your head, pay an electrician.

 

[Jerry1]

I just have to add, if you have come to this thread to find out how to hook up a generator, you're in the wrong place. You should start here https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-stan...ds/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70

And when you realize you're in over your head, pay an electrician.

There are many of us on the board here that are competent and can do it right without an electrician. Each person must know their limitations. If you are not comfortable DIY, then hire it out.

I agree with 38Chevy. This is a completely reasonable DIY for many people on this board and not. All the comments about getting an electrician don't seem to recognize the ability of many to handle things on their own. Especially with the internet and availability of information, videos, discussion boards, etc.

The company that the OP got the transfer switch from has very good instructions and a how-to video on how to do the install. Only reason I could see to need an electrician is if when you open up the switch the original wiring isn't as expected and you don't have the skills to troubleshoot the issue. Highly unlikely.

 

[CRLLS]

I just have to add, if you have come to this thread to find out how to hook up a generator, you're in the wrong place. You should start here https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-stan...ds/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70

And when you realize you're in over your head, pay an electrician.

And while you are at it, also check with your local building codes. They often specify the use of earlier versions of the NEC.

 

[teetee]

I agree with 38Chevy. This is a completely reasonable DIY for many people on this board and not. All the comments about getting an electrician don't seem to recognize the ability of many to handle things on their own. Especially with the internet and availability of information, videos, discussion boards, etc.



The company that the OP got the transfer switch from has very good instructions and a how-to video on how to do the install. Only reason I could see to need an electrician is if when you open up the switch the original wiring isn't as expected and you don't have the skills to troubleshoot the issue. Highly unlikely.

Yeah for that I was lucky. Both the line and the load side had three wires (hot, neutral, and copper ground), exactly like the normal setup would be.

The old switch connects/disconnects the two hot wires (line and load) only and the neutrals are joined with the wire nut.

The new switch has six legs so each hot and neutral from all three sources (line, load, and the generator) are governed by the same switch.

 

[freedomatlast]

Looks like a good product, and unlike the Easy Tran TF 151W referred to earlier in this thread, it appears this one actually has the neutrals switched instead of tied together.

 

[ERD50]

Looks like a good product, and unlike the Easy Tran TF 151W referred to earlier in this thread, it appears this one actually has the neutrals switched instead of tied together.

Yes, the "EZ Switch" does switch Neutral (but not Ground, as someone suggest doing earlier), and they show how to convert it to non-switched in this video. It's rather poorly done ( edit: the video is poorly done IMO, not the switch or the mod itself!), they don't show the wiring diagram or explain it, just go through the process.

One of these videos explains the danger of an un-grounded generator, he suggests that if you disconnect generator ground from house ground, that you connect a separate ground rod to the generator ground tab. Could that still trip a GFCI?

https://ezgeneratorswitch.com/how-to-videos/

-ERD50