Space - The Final Frontier

[Ready2Go]

https://youtu.be/gQDqRlMeJ4U

 

[ERD50]

They are being quite about the central booster landing in the ocean.

The whisper is that it was lost.

Still a good success. Landing on a non-stable platform is just nuts.

We now have heard that the rockets didn't fire properly (out of fuel?) and it hit the water at 300 mph, so the platform wasn't the issue in this case.

But it makes me wonder - if they are going to do these more often, would it make sense to build a stable platform out there? Similar to the oil drilling platforms? That was maybe too expensive for initial test flights, but with some confidence that they can make some real money now, is it feasible? Or is the non-stable platform not really that big a challenge for the rocket's control systems?

An incredible achievement, even with losing 1 of 3 rockets. Musk estimated 50-50 chance of success (by 'success' I would assume he meant getting the cargo into orbit, regardless of landing all the rockets or not?). One of the rare times Musk has under-promised and over-delivered!

-ERD50

 

[Chuckanut]

My guess is where the booster comes down is a function of what orbit the satellite needs to be in. High, low, geosynchronous, polar, mostly over one continent . As I said, just a guess

 

[Texas Proud]

We now have heard that the rockets didn't fire properly (out of fuel?) and it hit the water at 300 mph, so the platform wasn't the issue in this case.

But it makes me wonder - if they are going to do these more often, would it make sense to build a stable platform out there? Similar to the oil drilling platforms? That was maybe too expensive for initial test flights, but with some confidence that they can make some real money now, is it feasible? Or is the non-stable platform not really that big a challenge for the rocket's control systems?

An incredible achievement, even with losing 1 of 3 rockets. Musk estimated 50-50 chance of success (by 'success' I would assume he meant getting the cargo into orbit, regardless of landing all the rockets or not?). One of the rare times Musk has under-promised and over-delivered!

-ERD50

My thinking from some of the articles is that the landing spot moves according to what kind of launch is happening...


But I think they could make one that moves and then floods to form a more stable platform.... like this except have a platform raised...


Hmmm.. do not see the pic I attached....

 

[mpeirce]

But it makes me wonder - if they are going to do these more often, would it make sense to build a stable platform out there? Similar to the oil drilling platforms? That was maybe too expensive for initial test flights, but with some confidence that they can make some real money now, is it feasible? Or is the non-stable platform not really that big a challenge for the rocket's control systems?

Long term the BFR will negate the need for a barge out there since the first stage of the BFR will return to the launch area. Once BFR fly's, the Falcon 9 / Heavy will wind down operations fairly quickly.

They're targeting 2022 for the BFR, but even a few years later isn't that far off really.

 

[CaptTom]

I saw something about a stage 1 being towed back to port after a previous launch. Apparently it was planned that, although it didn't have enough fuel to land, it might have enough to brake the fall and ditch in the water without much damage.

I know what salt water can do to any man-made equipment. But still, it may be an option to get at least some parts back in one piece.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

I do not follow this space stuff anymore, but am not surprised that a private company would outperform the government, AND larger incumbent corporations.

When you can give stock options to attract the best talents and can pay employees according to their contribution instead of seniority, you can accomplish vastly more than megacorps who only know to teach their employees craps like Six Sigma and ISO 9001 without actually knowing what they meant or following the practices.

Sorry for the rant.

I think a big reason for Spacex's success is not only in its ability to attract top talent, but in attracting top talent with real passion, similar to what NASA was able to do in its early days. Stock options and pay (actually I read he pays relatively little) can attract talent, but cannot drive the passion for one's job that Spacex does. His early pronouncements of a plan to colonize mars may have seemed strange for a company that must actually make money to survive, but it really fired up his employees and a new generation of followers who now actually believe it can happen. There is no substitute for this kind of passion and what it can achieve. NASA at its founding had it, Spacex has it now. Watching all this gives me the same shivers I got in grade school when I watched the Mercury program and later the Apollo missions. Great to see this excitement happening again. And it may have the additional benefit of attracting a new young generation to science, as the original NASA programs did.

 

[rocketjockey]

My guess is where the booster comes down is a function of what orbit the satellite needs to be in. High, low, geosynchronous, polar, mostly over one continent . As I said, just a guess

Yes, this is exactly true. Depending on mission, the Drone Ship moves to the correct position to catch the booster.

 

[rocketjockey]

I saw something about a stage 1 being towed back to port after a previous launch. Apparently it was planned that, although it didn't have enough fuel to land, it might have enough to brake the fall and ditch in the water without much damage.

I know what salt water can do to any man-made equipment. But still, it may be an option to get at least some parts back in one piece.

That mission was NOT intended to be recovered. It is an obsolete booster version (Block 3). Since it was a throwaway, a new landing technique was tested (Called the hoverslam). Surprisingly, it survived test and did not sink. So the recovery ship nearby just hooked it up to drag back for a bonus.

 

[rocketjockey]

We now have heard that the rockets didn't fire properly (out of fuel?) and it hit the water at 300 mph, so the platform wasn't the issue in this case.

But it makes me wonder - if they are going to do these more often, would it make sense to build a stable platform out there? Similar to the oil drilling platforms? That was maybe too expensive for initial test flights, but with some confidence that they can make some real money now, is it feasible? Or is the non-stable platform not really that big a challenge for the rocket's control systems?

-ERD50

Not fuel (LOx/RP1) but the ignition fluid (TEA-TAB) was expended on 2 of the 3 landing engines. It only lit 1, couldn't hit the brakes quickly enough and came in hot!

SpaceX did investigate mobile platforms (like its competitor Sea Launch uses for launching ops - it is a modified deep sea exploration drill rig), but they are financially painful. All the time between missions they need care and feeding, large crews, large harbor support. Black hole of money. The drone ships much cheaper and simpler.

 

[Chuckanut]

Not fuel (LOx/RP1) but the ignition fluid (TEA-TAB) was expended on 2 of the 3 landing engines. It only lit 1, couldn't hit the brakes quickly enough and came in hot!

Ignition fluid?

Care to explain how that works? Obviously, it's a lot more complex than the starter on my BBQ.

 

[mpeirce]

That mission was NOT intended to be recovered. It is an obsolete booster version (Block 3). Since it was a throwaway, a new landing technique was tested (Called the hoverslam). Surprisingly, it survived test and did not sink. So the recovery ship nearby just hooked it up to drag back for a bonus.

That was a cool example of how SpaceX operates.

It was an old booster which they didn’t care about reusing, so after it fulfilled its primary mission, they used it in an experiment.

Rather than lighting up one engine as it lands it turns out that if you light up more engines you actually use less fuel. But you come in harder and stress the booster more. Up to now the less stressful, but slightly less efficient landing profile is what they’ve been using.

Since this was a throw away booster they could try out the more aggressive landing. Also, since they weren’t realiy recovering a booster for reuse, they could simply “land on water” and not risk damage to the landing barge.

It worked out great. The landing was soft enough that the booster “landed” on the water and since it didn’t breakup, it stayed afloat. They are towing it to shore to do a bonus inspection of the booster.

The original mission was unaffected by the test and SpaceX gained a bunch of useful data.

Very nice work!

 

[JoeWras]

That mission was NOT intended to be recovered. It is an obsolete booster version (Block 3). Since it was a throwaway, a new landing technique was tested (Called the hoverslam). Surprisingly, it survived test and did not sink. So the recovery ship nearby just hooked it up to drag back for a bonus.

Ah, I see rocket scientists play the same game we software guys do:

"That core booster thing? Ah, that's not a bug, it's a feature."

 

[rocketjockey]

Ignition fluid?

Care to explain how that works? Obviously, it's a lot more complex than the starter on my BBQ.

TEA-TAB, or for the geeks, triethylaluminium-triethylborane, is a pyrophoric mixture. Ignites on contact with air. It is much more reliable than a traditional spark plug type solution for starting a combustion reaction. Contrary to popular belief, RP-1 (fancy aerospace name for kerosene), is not particularly easy to ignite compared to other fuels.

You start flowing fuel + oxidizer and then you open the TEA-TAB bottle valves and boom, you are in bidness. If you watch SpaceX replays on youtube focused near the base of the rocket, just before main engine ignition, you will see a bright green flash. That is the TEA-TAB going off....

 

[ERD50]

My guess is where the booster comes down is a function of what orbit the satellite needs to be in. High, low, geosynchronous, polar, mostly over one continent . As I said, just a guess

Yes, this is exactly true. Depending on mission, the Drone Ship moves to the correct position to catch the booster.

Thanks for confirming Chuckanut's (very well reasoned) 'guess'. As soon as I saw that, I thought, sure, that sounds reasonable - nice to hear it verified.

So does the floating platform add much to the challenge of landing the rocket? It sure doesn't make it any easier, but I'm thinking the control systems are already doing so much, that a little rolling isn't all that big a deal? But that's not even a guess

-ERD50

 

[Totoro]

Exposure to wind and gusts is higher too I guess?

 

[Chuckanut]

One of the great parts of watching this launch was hearing the reaction of the SpaceX staff as the FH soared up, Up UP and away.

I think Mr. Musk, by justifiably setting expectations low, also set us up for a huge dose of enthusiasm. As the rocket climbed higher and higher, passing one test after another with ease, the cheering and the waves of enthusiasm from SpaceX just rolled out through and over everybody observing this launch.

They are really going to do it! No qualifications, no lowered expectations anymore. This bird is going all the way.

 

[CaptTom]

I'm thrilled at the unqualified success of this launch, and the fun Elon injected into it by using his roadster as a payload.

I know expectations were low, and time was short. Still, I can't help wondering if he explored the possibility of putting a long-term power supply in that "spacecraft" to allow communication with it for longer than the 4 hours of live video we got.

Maybe he didn't expect it to be so successful. Maybe they were at their limits already, with the cameras and telemetry we got. Still would be cool to get a few pics, or have it do some maneuvers, later. Maybe he did something like that, and we have a surprise waiting. We'll see.

 

[Texas Proud]

I'm thrilled at the unqualified success of this launch, and the fun Elon injected into it by using his roadster as a payload.

I know expectations were low, and time was short. Still, I can't help wondering if he explored the possibility of putting a long-term power supply in that "spacecraft" to allow communication with it for longer than the 4 hours of live video we got.

Maybe he didn't expect it to be so successful. Maybe they were at their limits already, with the cameras and telemetry we got. Still would be cool to get a few pics, or have it do some maneuvers, later. Maybe he did something like that, and we have a surprise waiting. We'll see.

Heck, if the car had a full battery pack I bet they could have it going for a good amount of time....

 

[Totoro]

Heck, if the car had a full battery pack I bet they could have it going for a good amount of time....

The RTG on Voyager seemed to output 300W - so assuming the Tesla could make do with only 50W and a 50kwh battery, that's 1.000 hours, or about 40 earth days.

Not quite enough for a full trip around Sol.

 

[folivier]

I would have animated the spaceman and had him turn his head and wave to the camera. That would have blown minds all over the globe!

 

[ls99]

That car is missing bobblehead on the deashboard.

 

[Koogie]

That car is missing bobblehead on the deashboard.

Ahh, but do you know what IS there ?

A Hot Wheels copy of the Roadster, with a tiny little Starman behind the wheel.

 

[CaptTom]

I read an article which suggested the core booster from the last launch did hit the barge at 300MPH. I recall from the streaming video that the live feed from the barge showed a lot of smoke then went dead - as they usually do.

If true, it doesn't seem like that would have been the plan. Anyone hear any more details?

 

[Chuckanut]

I read an article which suggested the core booster from the last launch did hit the barge at 300MPH. I recall from the streaming video that the live feed from the barge showed a lot of smoke then went dead - as they usually do.

If true, it doesn't seem like that would have been the plan. Anyone hear any more details?

I heard it hit the water and some shrapnel from it hit the barge.

At some point somebody will post a photo of the barge as it is towed into port for repairs. SpaceX fans get a bit obsessed with this stuff.