Spring break trip

[ivinsfan]

Yes, they have to be a bookkeeper really, after all they are collecting about $30,000 and not all the kids will be carrying credit cards to pick up unexpected sudden costs like adults do when traveling.

I don't think that the way it works, these are 10th graders not little kids..that's why they use a travel service to take care of these things. The teacher is not the parent..

 

[SecondCor521]

Thanks again for all the comments.

I am operating on the assumption that the teacher could simply choose to not do the spring break trip. She could certainly just say, hey kids, have a great spring break, see you next week. Nobody is forcing her to offer this trip to the kids - at least that is my impression. I could be wrong about that.

What I think is going on is that the teacher got connected with the touring company who said to her that she could offer this trip, and the benefits to the kids would be a great, fun trip, and the benefit to her would be providing that fun and educational trip to the kids and her costs would be covered. Her mental math is probably:

+ kids get a fun trip
+ I get my dollar costs covered
- I have to advertise the trip to the kids
- I have to give up my spring break
- I have to be responsible for the kids

I doubt the teacher gets overtime. I believe she is a salaried employee.

@EastWestGal, it sounds like the exact same trip that my DD will be going on. What occurred to me in reading your response is that part of the lower value of the Disney part of the experience is that I took DD and DS to Disneyworld about two years ago, so she's already experienced the "magic" of the Disney parks. So I know she won't be impressed with that part of it.

@ivinsfan, what I mean is that it is not explicit that there are conflicting interests. If an annuity salesman says to me, "Hey, buy this fantastic annuity, it's good for you!" they are not also saying, "And by the way, out of that $100K check you're writing, $10K (or whatever) is going into my pocket as a sales commission!" Some people, including most here, would know about the commission. Some people wouldn't, and some would consider that these unaware people had been taken advantage of. Some people might want the annuity but think the commission is too high. To take it back to the trip, nowhere in any of the literature and nowhere in the teacher's email or comments does she say, "10% of the cost of your trip is going to defray my trip costs" and nowhere do we have the option of defraying more or less of her trip costs. If it said, even in tiny print at the bottom of the flyer, "As a way of compensation and appreciation for the teacher's efforts, 10% of your trip cost contributes to the teacher's trip costs. If you want to help more, just add a 'teacher supplement' to your payment and indicate it on your payment slip" I would feel much better about it.

I should add that I don't think the teacher is being malicious or sneaky about any of this. She is a great teacher and a sweet person. I think it is far more likely that she simply hasn't thought through or understood about the conflict of interest part of it.

Also, I'm about 95% sure at this point that DD will go on the trip. She already has plenty of money in her savings to pay her part, and her Mom and I are pretty much on board with her going (I am, anyway, not so sure about my ex).

I apparently haven't made it clear, but there is clearly a tour company involved which is acting like a travel agent of sorts. The teacher's role is to get as many students to attend the trip as possible, but I believe beyond that the tour company is handling all of the details - collecting payments, buying the plane tickets, setting up the buses, the meal vouchers, etc.

As for extra expenses, I suspect that the tour company handles all of the payments and arrangements behind the scenes. Transportation, hotels, and meals are provided, and if the kid wants a Mickey Mouse t-shirt or whatever, they are being told to plan on bringing their own pocket money for that sort of thing.

 

[ivinsfan]

I believe the word you are looking for is "transparency" not "conflict of interest". The goal of all parties is that the kids would have a good safe worthwhile trip.

I'll repeat my comment that since your DD has 3 more years and probably several more trips in her future, that you go to the head office and ask if the school has written guidelines for teacher compensation on school sponsored trips. Just say you want to inform yourself. I'd be surprised if they don't have guidelines on the books.

I do wonder about any parent that thinks the teacher should pay full freight when doing a school trip. If 10 parents think she should pay her way and 10 want her to have a free trip, what happens then.Do you see how complicated this can get? Personally, I would look at the trip, the teacher involved and decide if the cost is acceptable and go from there. The teacher isn't selling you an annuity she's mentoring your kid, don't get stuck on a few bucks.

 

[RunningBum]

...

I should add that I don't think the teacher is being malicious or sneaky about any of this. She is a great teacher and a sweet person. I think it is far more likely that she simply hasn't thought through or understood about the conflict of interest part of it.

...

The teacher's role is to get as many students to attend the trip as possible

Is that the teacher's role, or is it to offer the trip and experience to students who want to attend? Has there been any pressure from the teacher to your daughter to get her to go? I'm not even sure what her conflict of interest is. If she gets enough kids to go, she on an expense-free working trip that will be part fun, part headache. If she doesn't, she cancels the trip and has her spring break free. I'm not seeing a huge win here.

If it bothers you though, I don't see a problem with asking for a breakdown of the expenses. My guess is that her expenses are directly paid for by the students, but rather as a kind of kickback from the touring company out of their profit. This is pretty common. I know of people who organize ski trips and that's how they get the free trip, for a lot less work that the teacher does. But some people do it well and find ways to make it fun for the others and that makes people more willing to keep going on those organized trips.

 

[SecondCor521]

Yes, I would strongly prefer, as when NBR interviews some analyst and they say, "Hey, we like Walmart's stock" that there is a thing at the bottom of the screen saying "Disclosure, analyst owns Walmart". It is a disclosure statement in a policy of transparency revealing conflicts of interest.

I appreciate the suggestion and will consider it.

 

[ivinsfan]

Yes, I would strongly prefer, as when NBR interviews some analyst and they say, "Hey, we like Walmart's stock" that there is a thing at the bottom of the screen saying "Disclosure, analyst owns Walmart". It is a disclosure statement in a policy of transparency revealing conflicts of interest.

I appreciate the suggestion and will consider it.

I think you work in the markets, is that correct?..but in fact, this isn't the same..if the teacher doesn't go, the kids can't go. The teacher attending is the lynchpin the trip is planned on. So in fact, the teacher is a core part of the trip. Whether the money comes straight from the student or is part of the "packaged" deal is immaterial. No parent gets to pick through outings and say I don't want to pay for this one, I want to pay less. Two days at the theme park instead of three. The teacher component is no different. You seem really hung up on this point and I'm not sure why.

 

[48Fire]

$800 flight? Are you kidding me? DW is flying from D.C. to Oahu round trip in October for less than that. $500 for hotel? No way. Pretty sure they will be sharing rooms. Should be getting a deal for $100 per night split 2 ways.

Yes, actually I was being conservative. The best flight on Travelocity from Boise to Orlando STARTS at $842.

And the CHEAP hotels at Disney are $200/night for spring break timeframes.

They are not the only ones planning a spring break trip to Disney

 

[SecondCor521]

No, I don't work in the markets. I am a FIREd engineer / engineering manager.

I am hung up on the point, and I'm not entirely sure why either, especially because it's largely academic - my kid wants to go, between the three of us we can afford it, the price is, after looking at it with help from people on this thread, not out of line for what we get.

Honestly I think I have some other emotional threads that are getting plucked by this situation. I'll go into it if anyone cares, but if not it's probably some things I should just introspect and tease out and resolve on my own.

Thank you sincerely for having the conversation with me. It helped me get to that point of understanding, which will very probably help me work through it and resolve my angst.

 

[ivinsfan]

Very honest of you..I'm just not wanting you to have an uncomfortable conversion with a teacher your DD will be interacting with for the next 3 years. Not matter how you phrase it the teacher is going to feel you don't have faith in her integrity and if that's true why would you want her to mentor your DD?

From everything you have said, I don't think that's the point you are trying to make. Share if you want or start another thread. I was starting to think you might be getting annoyed with me.

 

[48Fire]

It is not only work and risk for the teacher but also lots of overtime and loss of her own vacation.
So its very understandable that her cost is built in.
The price might also be set to make it less attractive for troublemakers.
Only that the rich do not cause less issues...

My wife coordinated Foreign Exchange Students. Most of these kids would be considered very rich - in the top 0.1% in U.S., and in the top 0.001% in their countries.

One trip she coordinated was a trip to Chicago. After we did a check of the kids at 11:00 pm, they all left for a night on the town. They rented a horse and carriage, paid some homeless guy $20 to buy them a case of beer, and probably paid their driver off as well. We found out a couple years later.

 

[SecondCor521]

Very honest of you..I'm just not wanting you to have an uncomfortable conversion with a teacher your DD will be interacting with for the next 3 years. Not matter how you phrase it the teacher is going to feel you don't have faith in her integrity and if that's true why would you want her to mentor your DD?

From everything you have said, I don't think that's the point you are trying to make. Share if you want or start another thread. I was starting to think you might be getting annoyed with me.

Thanks again.

I'm old enough and I hope wise enough to know that when I get into weird spots like this one with this trip to not go shooting my mouth off at anyone - my DD, my ex (OK, very rarely I can't help it with her), or the teacher in this case. So instead I start a thread like this one and don't move in the real world until I know and understand what's going on inside of me.

Right, not questioning the teacher's integrity at all.

I was annoyed at first, but that was just because your line of questioning was digging into the weird spot and I was reacting to that. Nothing personal about you at all, and again, actually I appreciate it because it got me to where I needed to be.

The 50,000 foot overview is that I don't fully trust nearly all women after being hurt badly by my ex when she divorced me 11 years ago. While clearly irrational and possibly not optimal overall, it is the only method I currently know to avoid getting hurt that badly in the future and is my current modus operandi. The other three people involved in this spring break trip are female - the teacher, my ex, and my DD. So intuitively or emotionally I am afraid of getting screwed.

Some mixture of:

 

[Gumby]

As others have said, it is no easy task chaperoning a bunch of teenagers around 24/7. And it can get very hairy indeed. My young wife is a teacher. For years, she (and a couple other teachers) went with kids on a class trip to Washington DC and Philadelphia. The school preferred her to go because she is also an EMT, and that meant they didn't have to send the nurse. Basically, she spent all of her time counting heads, checking beds and dispensing meds. One year, she had to go to the emergency room with a girl who had a severe asthma attack. The rest of the trip left and went back home to Connecticut while she stayed with the girl in Philadelphia. No one could contact the girl's parent or guardian, so my young wife had to deal with the hospital and then, after the girl was released, get herself and the girl home to CT (on her own dime initially, although the school later reimbursed us).

It would be unreasonable in the extreme to expect my young wife to actually pay to take on that responsibility. She was already giving away her time. She did it because she wanted her kids to have an educational experience, not for her own leisure. When she wanted to actually see Washington, she and I went there on a vacation of our own.

 

[ivinsfan]

That's above my paygrade....but I would guess you're gunshy...and want all the facts on the table so you don't feel blindsided.Not uncommon I would think. You don't really know the teacher, have history with your ex and are watching your DD gain her independence.It's good you're aware of it and can talk about it.