Tough times for some people

[haha]

I perhaps apply a similar rule as you if I am asked to help. But compassion is free. It's limitless like love, why not give it freely?

Ha

 

[travelover]

Let them eat cake!

 

[Rustic23]

There is a guy I know that is retired. He and his wife live on less than $2,000 a month and he says he 'even manages to save a little each month'.

 

[W2R]

The "journalist" who wrote the article didn't put much effort into looking for someone hardworking, frugal, and deserving who is having a tough time. Instead, he put a family in the spotlight that is clearly undeserving in many respects.

It is easy to look at this family and conclude, "See? People who say they are having tough times are ALL a bunch of undeserving louts." (We Americans are so good at generalizing.. )

Perhaps inspiring that conclusion on our part was the author's intention. At any rate, there ARE people out there who are deserving, hard working, don't throw money away with drinking, smoking, or gambling, and have even sold their x-boxes and still are having a tough time putting food on the table. In my opinion this author just didn't look hard enough to find someone like that or else he does not have much sympathy for those who are out of work.

 

[FUEGO]

Perhaps inspiring that conclusion on our part was the author's intention. At any rate, there ARE people out there who are deserving, hard working, don't throw money away with drinking, smoking, or gambling, and have even sold their x-boxes and still are having a tough time putting food on the table.

Wait a minute... you can't expect someone to give up all that just because him and his wife don't have jobs, can you? And you forgot to mention his dirt bike.

Drinking, smoking, gambling and playing xbox describes my college days pretty well.

 

[Westernskies]

Interesting that this family is pulling in the equivalent of $34,216 a year from unemployment. Or close to $3000 a month.

This is not much less than what he would have been taking home at $53K/year from the RV plant, less federal and state taxes, SS, [-]401K contributions[/-] bar bills, commuting costs, etc. Their situation is grim, and I don't have a very good feel about their future, but I have a hard time sympathizing with them after hearing about her reaction to the new job situation. IMO, she should have taken the job, shown them she was employee of the month material and it might have turned into a full time position with commensurate compensation. Selecting continued unemployment and hanging out with Homer on the couch isn't exactly a positive career move.

As for the MIL's basement, why do they have to live with overflowing catboxes and insulation falling off the windows? Get up off the couch, turn off the damn TV and clean the place up.

Unemployment is not the only problem facing these folks. They have made, are currently making, and will probably continue to make poor lifestyle and financial decisions.

BTW, What are they buying on layaway at Kmart that is so important that they would dedicate such a large chunk of their meager income to, anyway? That little subplot really piqued my interest...

Do I feel sorry for them? YES
Do I feel responsible for them? NO

 

[bbbamI]

I'm glad I don't live in a glass house....

 

[Westernskies]

I wonder how much the Washington Post (Our nation's self-annointed social conscience) paid them for their story?

 

[FUEGO]

This is not much less than what he would have been taking home at $53K/year from the RV plant, less federal and state taxes, SS, [-]401K contributions[/-] bar bills, commuting costs, etc. Their situation is grim, and I don't have a very good feel about their future, but I have a hard time sympathizing with them after hearing about her reaction to the new job situation. IMO, she should have taken the job, shown them she was employee of the month material and it might have turned into a full time position with commensurate compensation. Selecting continued unemployment and hanging out with Homer on the couch isn't exactly a positive career move.

As for the MIL's basement, why do they have to live with overflowing catboxes and insulation falling off the windows? Get up off the couch, turn off the damn TV and clean the place up.

Unemployment is not the only problem facing these folks. They have made, are currently making, and will probably continue to make poor lifestyle and financial decisions.

BTW, What are they buying on layaway at Kmart that is so important that they would dedicate such a large chunk of their meager income to, anyway? That little subplot really piqued my interest...

Do I feel sorry for them? YES
Do I feel responsible for them? NO

That pretty much sums up my sentiments, except I would not expect her to take a pay cut to go work for the chiropractor. Especially since she would get dinged with payroll taxes, and have to pay for gas and car maintenance to get to/from work.

Judging from the amounts they were pulling in from unemployment, it looks like the wife had a decent job, too (before she was terminated). My guess is they were grossing $80k+ during 2007 (ie comfortably middle class by middle America standards). And virtually nothing to show for it in terms of accumulated wealth. Empathy - yes, sympathy, no.

 

[FUEGO]

I'm glad I don't live in a glass house....

Don't volunteer to be interviewed by a national media outlet if you don't want to experience glass house syndrome.

 

[bbbamI]

Don't volunteer to be interviewed by a national media outlet if you don't want to experience glass house syndrome.

Ain't that the truth! I'm pretty safe though as I live a boring life. No one would want to read about me....

 

[Moemg]

I feel sorry for them . Sure they made poor choices but they did not exactly grow up with stellar models . Of course he should not have thrown money around at the bar but it was probably the only time in his life he felt like king of the hill . Of course they should have saved some of their salary but they did not and now they have problems . I for one have made some stupid mistakes and I'm sure a story about those parts of my life would bring a lot of tsktsking but I'm only human as most of us are . As they say " There but for the grace of God goes I ".

 

[Sarah in SC]

I thought the article was exceptionally well-written and it seems apparent that the journalist spent a great deal of time with this family to convey their despair so accurately.
Ha will appreciate that I found the article through Stephen Dubner's Freakonomics blog, where he supposed that his readers would feel the same way as many of us. You might enjoy his commentary:
What Does This Sad Story Say to You? - Freakonomics Blog - NYTimes.com

I found the story and photo essay riveting. I agree with the consensus view that they created this mess, but I cannot help but feel sorry for those children and the long ago lost dreams of the wife. I've known people like this and gotten a glimpse of their hopelessness.

Whew--whatever it was that caused me to get where I am--luck, charm, hard work, good schooling or whatever, I'm sure as hell glad to be here instead of in that wretched basement.

 

[freebird5825]

...Selecting continued unemployment and hanging out with Homer on the couch isn't exactly a positive career move.

As for the MIL's basement, why do they have to live with overflowing catboxes and insulation falling off the windows? Get up off the couch, turn off the damn TV and clean the place up.

...BTW, What are they buying on layaway at Kmart that is so important that they would dedicate such a large chunk of their meager income to, anyway? That little subplot really piqued my interest...

Are we related?
My money is on either a large size flat screen TV or a Wii system for the teenager.

I lived in a basement apartment in college with 3 other gals because that's all we could afford. We used what little spare money we had on a trip to the Salvation Army to get low price items to make it as bright and cheery as we could. It's all in the attitude.
You gotta make the best of what you are dealt and take an active part in changing those lemons to lemonade.

Their lack of gratitude toward the mother for taking them in was a real eye opener for me. My "entitlement mentality" detector went off.
I guess I'm gonna burn, but these types give a huge black eye to hard w*rking folks who live within their means and deal with prolonged job losses in spite of honest efforts to get w*rking again.

 

[RunningBum]

I perhaps apply a similar rule as you if I am asked to help. But compassion is free. It's limitless like love, why not give it freely?

Ha

Because these people need a kick in the ass more than compassion. And while compassion may be free, our tax dollars supporting this family are not.

 

[brewer12345]

I perhaps apply a similar rule as you if I am asked to help. But compassion is free. It's limitless like love, why not give it freely?

Ha

The milk of human kindness does not exatly flow freely around here, in case you have not noticed.

 

[novaman]

The milk of human kindness does not exatly flow freely around here, in case you have not noticed.

I've learned the hard way when to be kind and when not to. During the recession of the early 90's, I had 2 young men knock on my door looking for any kind of odd job, saying they were down on their luck bricklayers. I felt compassion for them and gave them several jobs, and even pulled a tooth on one of the pro bono to relieve a toothache (yes I'm a dentist). My act of kindness was repaid with grand larceny, contact with shady characters, possible endangerment of the lives of my wife, my kids, and my baby sitter, and many hours lost sitting in court.

It is an amazing and somewhat humourous story. Those interested in the whole story can PM me.

During all of this the police gave me a bit of advice and told me it was nice to have a good charitable heart but give your charity to organizations that will properly screen for those who are truly in need.

As a result I scrutinize things a bit differently now.

 

[NW-Bound]

My nephew, a young pharmacist, told us this story. An older woman came to him asking for help in filling her prescription. She asked for an "advance" on her medication, to which he obliged by giving her some pills to tide her over.

The week after, when she had money to get her prescription filled, my nephew was going to give her the remaining of her prescription. She protested, demanding the whole thing, and totally denying ever asking for help.

My nephew bent the rule to help this woman, and was determined never to do it again.

 

[Westernskies]

My nephew, a young pharmacist, told us this story. An older woman came to him asking for help in filling her prescription. She asked for an "advance" on her medication, to which he obliged by giving her some pills to tide her over.

The week after, when she had money to get her prescription filled, my nephew was going to give her the remaining of her prescription. She protested, demanding the whole thing, and totally denying ever asking for help.


My nephew bent the rule to help this woman, and was determined never to do it again.

Maybe it was medication for senility?

 

[ERD50]

These lower end consumers/workers are almost as different from the average person on this board as some guy in a loin cloth in the Amazon.

Ha

I think you underestimate the potential of the "lower end consumer". I know plenty of of "working stiffs", and quite a few of them have good money sense. And I've known corporate executives who had to manage a budget of many, many millions who ran their personal finances idiotically.

I perhaps apply a similar rule as you if I am asked to help. But compassion is free. It's limitless like love, why not give it freely?

Ha

The milk of human kindness does not exactly flow freely around here, in case you have not noticed.

Here's my flavor of "compassion" - if someone like this came to me and asked me about personal finance, I would *very* generous with my time and effort. I'd go far out of my way to help them learn the basics and avoid the pitfalls. I see that as compassion with some meat behind it, and a good shot at a better outcome. The other compassion may be "nice", but is anyone really served by it in a case like this? I don't see it.

I'll save your kind of compassion for people who get into trouble through no fault of their own, and where my actions could do no good. What else can you do at that point?

Like W2R, I also wonder if the reporter didn't purposely pick a lame case, just to stir up the kind of interest that this thread has got. That is a cheap shot at the deserving people.

-ERD50

 

[quietman]

There's a guy in my neighborhood who spent a couple months walking down the street with a rake or a lawn mower and asking for work. He brought his resume, explained this was only temporary while he looked for a job in his real field, but until then he needed bus fare to get to an interview, or a couple bucks to tide him over or whatever. I was skeptical but gave him a small yard job. He was the hardest worker I ever saw. Did the job and as much more as he could - asked for less than half what I should have paid him - and was grateful and happy to get the work. He came back a half dozen times over the few months, and I gave him work to do (and paid way over what he asked) every time. No regrets and I'm sure life worked out well for him. With that kind of attitude, how could it not?

Or he could have stayed in a basement somewhere and watched TV.

 

[haha]

Because these people need a kick in the ass more than compassion. And while compassion may be free, our tax dollars supporting this family are not.

Well have at 'em tiger.

 

[Leonidas]

As they say " There but for the grace of God goes I ".

That thought kept echoing in my mind as I read the article.

We were so poor when I was a kid, that this family would have seemed rich to us. They have someplace to live and food to eat every day. There was a year when I had neither, and I was happy as hell about eating the government cheese. Partly because it was pretty good stuff, but mostly because it meant I got to eat that day. And being able to call a smelly basement home would have been a luxury.

When the migrant farm workers' kids at school nickname you "pobrecito" (the little poor one), you know there really isn't much farther for you to fall - you're already sitting on the absolute bottom. The good side is that any change is an improvement.

If they passed out merit badges for being poor white trash, I would have been a freaking Eagle Scout.

I never blamed anybody for how life was back then. That is just the way things are; sometimes life gives you a sh*t sandwich and holds the bread. I don't blame my parents, even though they bear the responsibility because things happened the way they did because of their poor decisions. It never made sense to blame society either and so I never have.

In fact, I don't think I ever blamed anyone.

When I look at the Nichols' family I don't feel superior. I just feel grateful as hell that it's not me. Maybe God made me a little smarter than them, or maybe not. Maybe life just taught me the right lessons at the right time. I can't say one way or the other. But I know that I am better at assessing risks and seizing opportunities than they are.

There was one opportunity that was open to me, the same one that my ancestors had when they came to this country, pick up a weapon and stand between scary dangerous people and the folks willing to pay me to do that. Sounded like a great deal to me back then, and it turned out even better than I hoped. I hope my kids get better opportunities, but I tell them both that the family business will always be there if they need it.

As best as I know, opportunity never forces itself on anyone. Opportunities always exist, are sometimes hard to find, and always involves some degree of risk. Crappy situations, however, do force themselves on us at their whim. To me, the difference between any of us is how we deal with the opportunities and crappy situations that find their way into our lives.

It's easy to feel compassion for the Nichols' as they struggle with their crappy situation. I have no feelings of schadenfreude or superiority toward them, but on the other hand, I really don't have much empathy for them. They have not handled the situation well, and the final act, moving to the number one worst small city for jobs, is admitting defeat.

I would die before going to live in my mother-in-law's stinky basement in not-a-chance-in-hell Michigan.

 

[Westernskies]

There's a guy in my neighborhood who spent a couple months walking down the street with a rake or a lawn mower and asking for work. He brought his resume, explained this was only temporary while he looked for a job in his real field, but until then he needed bus fare to get to an interview, or a couple bucks to tide him over or whatever. I was skeptical but gave him a small yard job. He was the hardest worker I ever saw. Did the job and as much more as he could - asked for less than half what I should have paid him - and was grateful and happy to get the work. He came back a half dozen times over the few months, and I gave him work to do (and paid way over what he asked) every time. No regrets and I'm sure life worked out well for him. With that kind of attitude, how could it not?

Or he could have stayed in a basement somewhere and watched TV.

Here's the best response I could find for this question- courtesy of bbbamI, in the 70's thread.

... At a young age I was filled with grit and determination. I was able not only to survive, but flourish.

 

[harley]

To me the main aspect of this story was the refusal of the husband to take his antidepression meds. I know and have known a large number of depressed individuals. You tend to run into them in therapy and rehab. If you are clinically depressed, normal standards are out the window. My question is are the wife and kids similarly afflicted? If so, odds are these folks will never be happy, whether on UI or making $120K/year. Sad.

My first thought when I read the article was "get off your ass and do something", followed by "there but for the grace of God...", but after thinking on it for a bit I'm going with "the poor will be with us always, and most reporters are scumbags". That's my story and I'm sticking with it.