Tough times for some people

Everything about their lives seems so depressing. Makes me glad that I have an education and not living their lives.
 
Sure, it is sad - but I'm not reading any further than this:
Scott got a job on a paint crew at an RV plant, and by the end of 2007 his income had climbed to $53,000, more than he had ever earned. After work he was the man at the bar with the thick roll of bills, the man he had always wanted to be, buying round after round for himself and his friends. The man with "the full pocket," as he liked to say. He took his son on a fishing trip. He took his family out to eat and told them to order whatever they wanted.

...

When he lost his job, Scott had no savings, his primary objective always having been to earn enough to cover the rent, eat an occasional steak, feed and clothe their children, ride his dirt bike, fish, golf, play poker, buy lottery tickets, and drink Bud Light.
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You don't need an advanced degree to understand "save for a rainy day". C'mon. These people create most of their problems.

I've been thinking lately - is "unemployment insurance" doing more harm than good? Maybe if that safety net was not there, and 1/10 that amount of money was used on education regarding "emergency funds", people would plan for themselves. Maybe there would be *less* suffering overall?

-ERD50
 
I have to agree with you ERD50!

Love this section:

They would sleep in her basement jammed with forgotten furniture, a few steps from a pair of cat litter boxes and below three narrow windows blocked by insulation.
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They could develop careers in redecorating, cat sitting....

The problem is obvious, on a salary of $53,000 and two kids:

After work he was the man at the bar with the thick roll of bills, the man he had always wanted to be, buying round after round for himself and his friends. The man with "the full pocket," as he liked to say. He took his son on a fishing trip. He took his family out to eat and told them to order whatever they wanted.
Click to expand...

"It's 28 hours, eight bucks an hour," she says. No benefits, she adds.
"You say, 'Thank you, but -- '?"
"Yup," she says. "I make more on unemployment."
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Solution might be to work multiple jobs. and of course that career in pooper-scooping, which I do as favors for friends, can bring in a reasonable amount to cover the $40 bills they were fretting over.
 
Even as they have fallen on hard times, note how he spent their unemployment checks.

...He withdraws $700, which he tucks into a front pocket of his jeans. He buys a Pepsi, four packs of Marlboro Lights and $20 in gas. He pays the electric bill, buys brake pads and a $66 money order for the kids' health insurance, and hoses down the Cougar at a car wash. At the bank, he deposits $500 toward rent.

... The bartender, gray-haired, gravelly-voiced Valerie, delivers his winnings and a $2 draft...He downs a seventh beer, then an eighth at 3:04...

... In the kitchen, Scott gives Kelly the rest of the money in his pocket, $70, which needs to last until next week's unemployment money arrives...

​
 
ERD50 said:
I've been thinking lately - is "unemployment insurance" doing more harm than good? Maybe if that safety net was not there, and 1/10 that amount of money was used on education regarding "emergency funds", people would plan for themselves. Maybe there would be *less* suffering overall?
Click to expand...

Certainly so. Why bother saving when ole Uncle is just going to pay us if we lose our jobs?

And add that to the work disincentive that comes with unemployment payments being tied to not working. If I were laid off, I could not accept any job paying less than $14 per hour or so (and 40 hrs per week), or I would be literally losing money (before considering job related expenses like childcare, gas, maybe eating out, clothing, etc). Even though $14 per hour would be enough to keep the bills paid and food on the table for quite a while with a little draw down on the emergency fund.

That reminds me of the time I tried to hire some temps to work for me. I promised $15/hr, but only 4 to 8 hours a day for 4 days per week and only for 5-6 weeks. They both told me they make more than that on unemployment and so I thanked them for their time and we parted paths quickly. As a small business owner, it can suck having this type of interference in the labor market.

Apparently there is talk of extending the unemployment benefits further beyond 57 weeks. In these difficult economic times, anything goes I guess. :rolleyes:
 
NW-Bound said:
Even as they have fallen on hard times, note how he spent their unemployment checks.
....
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Yes, the real victims here are the bars and convenience stores, all spiral down. I believe a recent thread described frugal ways to make your own sweet beverages, not Pepsi but something like powered products in your water bottle, they could even re-use the water bottles. :ROFLMAO:
 
FUEGO said:
Certainly so. Why bother saving when ole Uncle is just going to pay us if we lose our jobs?
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I wish one could "opt out" of these various programs. For example, if I could put 6 months take home pay in an account that I could not withdraw from while I had a job, I should be able to receive the unemployment insurance premium myself. And of course, I could not collect benefits then.

Get a new job, go through the ritual again. Or not.

I could have made good use of a few extra % in my paycheck over my career.

-ERD50
 
Ah, but the idea of being self-insured is so passé. It would make countless gummint bureaucrats jobless. In this modern world, so many jobs are held by "middlemen". What would they do for a living? :rolleyes:
 
These lower end consumers/workers are almost as different from the average person on this board as some guy in a loin cloth in the Amazon.

Most of what we say from our comfortable very middle-class perspective would seem totally irrelevant and elitist to these people. (I use middle class in the broad socio-economic sense, not the narrow sense sometimes used on this board, and by Mr. Obama to mean part of the consumer society but just getting by.)

BTW, how much paid dog-walking do you think is available in a town with 18% unemployment?

As far as his drinking, it's what men do when they no longer feel like men.


Ha
 
Hmmmm...from the article...poker playing, party man throwing the bucks around at the bar, dirtbike, Xbox, cell phone, Blackberry, layaway at KMart (for what I can just imagine :rolleyes:), etc
No savings.
I can't feel sorry for them. When I graduated college into economic conditions just like this, I found jobs - housecleaning, mechanic, department store clerk, substitute teacher, no matter what it paid. I was living in a job depressed area also.
I'm sure a lot of us have done the same.
Sitting around feeling sorry for themselves just doesn't cut it.
 
Whether they live and handle their money by "our standards" or not doesn't matter. Desperation can lead to violence. I've seen it too often. I hope their situation gets better.
 
BbbamI,
I disagree. If they are going to take Our money, then they should be willing to handle their money by 'our standard'. Look at it this way. We are paying them, should not we be required to set the rules for them to receive this pay.
 
Rustic23 said:
BbbamI,
I disagree. If they are going to take Our money, then they should be willing to handle their money by 'our standard'. Look at it this way. We are paying them, should not we be required to set the rules for them to receive this pay.
Click to expand...
Yeah right...like all of us here agree on ss, investing, mortgages, children, health care...the list goes on. :) I'd hate to have to wait until everyone agreed until I could put supper on the table because I had made some mistakes and lost my job.
 
A part of me felt sorry for these people, but a part of me didn't. They made a lot of poor choices in life that has gotten them to this point.... The husband never did get much training in marketable skills other than body work/painting. The wife partied her way out of a promising education track. They never bothered to save a dime even when times were good. Even now they are throwing money away on alcohol, smokes, gas for the dirtbike. And they aren't starving if the husband has managed to gain 40 lbs since being laid off.
 
Unemployment insurance is a really important safety net and I don't understand how it interferes with private business. The purpose it serves is to allow people to have a bit of money for food, hopefully stay in their homes for a while and time to job hunt. Don't knock it just because you have ever needed it. I was laid off in 1975 and it took me about 4 months to find a job. We had to move, but that was OK. With a wife and 2 little kids, the UI coupled with our savings kept us from having to live on the street and allowed me to have a focused job hunt. My plan was to take anything I could get once we were within one month of it running out, but with an MBA, I figured I just needed some time to work through the interviews. And that's exactly what happened. I received several offers and took the one that suited us best.

I am thankful that I never needed to use it again, but one of our grown kids has been laid off several times, never for very long, but the UI allowed her to focus on getting a new job and not worry about the rent. In her case, even a MBA can't guarantee that a failing company won't shed workers. Also, working for newspapers is probably not the most stable job in the world these days :).
 
restonham said:
Unemployment insurance is a really important safety net and I don't understand how it interferes with private business. The purpose it serves is to allow people to have a bit of money for food, hopefully stay in their homes for a while and time to job hunt. Don't knock it just because you have ever needed it. I was laid off in 1975 and it took me about 4 months to find a job. We had to move, but that was OK. With a wife and 2 little kids, the UI coupled with our savings kept us from having to live on the street and allowed me to have a focused job hunt. My plan was to take anything I could get once we were within one month of it running out, but with an MBA, I figured I just needed some time to work through the interviews. And that's exactly what happened. I received several offers and took the one that suited us best.

I am thankful that I never needed to use it again, but one of our grown kids has been laid off several times, never for very long, but the UI allowed her to focus on getting a new job and not worry about the rent. In her case, even a MBA can't guarantee that a failing company won't shed workers. Also, working for newspapers is probably not the most stable job in the world these days :).
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Excellent post.

I was on UI for about six months in 1978. I received the princely sum of $60 a week. However, this money kept the lights on and food on the table. I've never had to collect again and have never received public assistance. I've lived a very fortunate life. :)
 
What stood out was the defeatist attitude that the author conveyed. I know from past posts written by a lot of us that we've had tough times like this family is going through. I've collected UI myself. It is very difficult for me to understand their attitude, but I definitely understand their situation.
It is not easy to lose a job, nor it is reasonable for anyone to expect to have the job of one's dreams waiting in a recession...but a winning "can do" attitude is needed to overcome adversity. I didn't get that from the dialogue of the adults and the teenager. Just the opposite.
 
haha said:
I sure hope St. Peter is less strict than many of you ladies and gentlemen.
Ha
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There's no need to worry. According to the following story, St. Peter is very lenient.



Three men died in a car accident and met St. Peter at the Pearly Gates.

St. Peter said "I will ask you each a simple question. If you tell the truth I will allow you into heaven, but if you lie, hell is waiting for you."

St. Peter asked "How many times did you cheat on your wife?"

The first man replied, "I was a good husband. I never cheated on my wife."

St. Peter replied, "Very good! Not only will I allow you in, but for being faithful to your wife I will give you a huge mansion and a limo for your transportation."

The second man replied, "I cheated on my wife twice."

St. Peter replied, "I will allow you to come in, but for your unfaithfulness, you will get a four-bedroom house and a BMW."

The third man replied, "I cheated on my wife about 8 times."

St. Peter said, "I will allow you to come in, but for your unfaithfulness, you will get a one-room apartment, and a Yugo for your transportation."



A couple hours later the second and third men saw the first man crying his eyes out. "Why are you crying? You got the mansion and limo!" the two men asked.



The first man replied, "I'm crying because I saw my wife a little while ago, and she was riding a skateboard!"​
 
Interesting that this family is pulling in the equivalent of $34,216 a year from unemployment. Or close to $3000 a month. I'm surprised the money doesn't go further that the article makes it seem, since this is somewhere in the ballpark of what our family of four spends on an annual basis in what I assume is a slightly higher cost of living city. And we have a disproportionately large mortgage payment given that we refi'd into a 10 year note. Although I do note some distinct differences in the spending patterns between our family and theirs. :)

It's hard not to feel a little sorry for people in this situation. But at the same time, they are not completely victims of circumstance either. I think many of us have been in situations like this or have family or friends that have.

The guy in the article also seems to suffer from alcoholism and depression. Adding unemployment into the mix can't make things any easier.
 
haha said:
I sure hope St. Peter is less strict than many of you ladies and gentlemen.
Ha
Click to expand...

I'm a compassionate person, but its hard to be as compassionate towards those who have reached this point in their lives in a large part due to the poor choices they made.

there are many times when things aren't going right and you are looking for someone or something to blame.....and all you need to do is look in the mirror.
 
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