Wow, New Car Technology

[W2R]

We're thinking of switching to Toyota. Honda doesn't seem to back their products when there is a design flaw. The A/C unit was faulty on Honda CRVs and it took a class action lawsuit for them to cover some of the cost. I think thy lost a lot of customers on that one. We bought a Honda lawnmower and the transmission went out after maybe 25 uses. Honda redesigned the transmission but didn't issue a recall.

Toyota isn't perfect either. I call my top of the line 2009 Venza my "nanny car". I was thinking of buying something cheaper next time, and/or another brand, in the hopes that it would have fewer electronic features and would be less bossy.

 

[travelover]

...........
I think back to the cars I remember from the '70s and compare them to today. Cars back then were so much easier to work on. ..........

Yea, those 1970's cars were the peak of automotive technology. Early emissions systems, no power, lucky to go 100,000 miles............

 

[mpeirce]

> Cars back then were so much easier to work on

Also, you had to work on them. The cars I have now are basically appliances - they run for 10-15 years, get some minor maintenance done on them (oil, tires...), then you get a new one.

 

[ziggy29]

Yea, those 1970's cars were the peak of automotive technology. Early emissions systems, no power, lucky to go 100,000 miles............

Not saying I want to go back to those days. Good grief, but you're reading way too much into my statement. I'm just saying that it feels like cars today are designed to make them as impossible for ordinary folks to maintain as possible, as if some unseen "mechanic's lobby" is paying them off to force people to take cars to the shop for even routine maintenance.

But yes, many vehicles today can go 100,000 miles without any major maintenance -- just oil and filter changes, and a new set of tires and brakes along the way. (My car, a 2005 Toyota Matrix, has 74K miles and is still on its original brakes.)

I will certainly admit that reliability is better than ever. Many cars in the days of my youth crapped out totally long before hitting 100K miles.

 

[NW-Bound]

Even something as benign as an electric door lock can cost you dearly.

I had to replace a door lock actuator in my Honda. The little motor encased in a plastic housing cost nearly $200, if bought from Honda. I paid $90 including shipping for an after-market part, and replaced it myself. The doggone thing failed after 1 month, and there's no warranty! Same as the original, it still operates the lock but makes terrible noise.

I read on the Web people ranting about all 4 door locks of their Honda failing. The cost for repair at a dealer is $400 each door! They give no volume discount. Hah!

 

[aja8888]

Even something as benign as an electric door lock can cost you dearly.

I had to replace a door lock actuator in my Honda. The little motor encased in a plastic housing cost nearly $200, if bought from Honda. I paid $90 including shipping for an after-market part, and replaced it myself. The doggone thing failed after 1 month, and there's no warranty! Same as the original, it still operates the lock but makes terrible noise.

I read on the Web people ranting about all 4 door locks of their Honda failing. The cost for repair at a dealer is $400 each door! They give no volume discount. Hah!

Similar situation on my 2006 VW Jetta diesel. Door lock system went out. This is part of the factory alarm, has the electronics for the window motor, power locks, cabin aux lighting. New one (switch) was ~$350. I took my door apart and got the unit out (nice DIY on the web) and found it contained three mini size electro mechanical switches, a small indexing motor and polystyrene worm gears, a printed circuit board and the locking mechanical hardware. There are two cables, a split housing with 8 screws and a couple of grommets.

Well, upon inspection, I found two cold and cracked solder joints on the circuit board and a worn micro switch button (plastic). I resoldered the bad joints, found an after market mini micro switch at Radio Shack, assembled the thing and every thing is good now. I would guess the replacement job at the dealer would be around $1,000.00. I did it all for under $20 and one afternoon. But I have the tools of a respectable service mechanic, too.

And I am a cheap and demand quality, neither of which you will find at a dealer's service department.

 

[NW-Bound]

...I'm just saying that it feels like cars today are designed to make them as impossible for ordinary folks to maintain as possible, as if some unseen "mechanic's lobby" is paying them off to force people to take cars to the shop for even routine maintenance.

I taught my son basic car maintenance. But he will have to bring his new Audi to the dealer for oil changes. The car has no drain plug, and the oil has to be pumped out by suction!

But yes, many vehicles today can go 100,000 miles without any major maintenance -- just oil and filter changes, and a new set of tires and brakes along the way. (My car, a 2005 Toyota Matrix, has 74K miles and is still on its original brakes.)

I will certainly admit that reliability is better than ever. Many cars in the days of my youth crapped out totally long before hitting 100K miles.

+1

New cars run for a long time, but when they start to fall apart, the repair cost is so high you can't or do not want to fix them.

 

[aja8888]

The car has no drain plug, and the oil has to be pumped out by suction!

Not anything new here. I have a 8 litre MityVac and have been doing topside oil changes for years. If you notice, many of these German cars have the oil filter accessible from the top of the engine. Newer MBZ's have no engine oil dipstick either.

Most German automatic transmissions have no dipstick (aka, fill port) and have been bottom filled for a decade or so.

The real maintenance killer is the electronics and sensors involved in the emission control systems. Now you are seeing regenerative NOx systems on diesels, particulate filters, etc. When additional NOx control is promulgated into law for gasoline vehicles, the same control technologies will be put on those cars.

 

[NW-Bound]

Well, it was new to me because my last German car was a 1977 VW, and that had an oil drain plug.

 

[aja8888]

Well, it was new to me because my last German car was a 1977 VW, and that had an oil drain plug.

Drain plugs are still on some oil pans, but there is usually a cover to remove to see it. Much easier to do topside oil changes.

 

[DAYDREAMER]

The key to maintaining all the new technology is having a service manual, and a passion to figure it out. The electronics are pretty basic if you study the manual, drink a few beers, look again at the manual, a few more beers, and before you know it, the problem disappears.

Web forums are also a great resource to help trouble shoot. You have to wade through a lot of garbage info, but, pretty easy to decipher the "knowledgable" from the "know it alls". If you have a problem with a vehicle, you can bet that others have the same problem, and somebody will figure it out. A lot of smart people out there.

 

[Walt34]

Both our vehicles are 2003, long-planned buys, bought new. I bought the service manual for the GMC pickup truck online and was astonished when the box arrived. Five volumes! One was just for the electronics on the engine alone. I read (or skimmed) all of it - "Okay, this I can do, this I better keep my grubby mitts off of" - and so concluded that for the the most part other than changing oil and light bulbs I should have it done by someone more current than me on this stuff.

That's what makes me leery of all the advances. Like computers, they're great when they work, but what's it gonna cost when it breaks?

Yeah, gimme breaker points and distributors and hardware, when a VOM and a dwell meter were all the electrical diagnostics you needed.

 

[robnplunder]

Just bought Hyundai's Azera 2013. It came with two thick manuals, one for car and another for navigation. They fill up the glove compartment. The new tech in the car is simply amazing compare to my 2006 Azera. If you are not tech savvy, you are going to miss out on a lot of high tech features that are available. I am still trying to get used to keyless entry & engine start. I have yet to figure out how to listen to radio while the engine is out (too lazy to look up the 500 page manual). But certainly enjoying all the whistles and bells.

 

[Rustic23]

Same thing with our Murano. I downloaded all the manuals put them on iPad, and a copy in Dropbox. Have not pulled them out of the globe box but will.

 

[braumeister]

I just read something recently about how both Apple and Google are working with car manufacturers to more fully integrate their smartphones with the car's information systems.

I have a 2013 Honda CR-V that has begun this process. About 5-10 seconds after starting the car, the screen lights up telling me my iPhone is connected (Bluetooth). When a call comes in, I just tap a button on the steering wheel to answer it. Another button lets me say the name of the person I want to call, and the car/phone interface does the rest.

When I think about the old days when I did my own tuneups with a dwell meter and thickness gauges to adjust the points, etc., etc., it sometimes just boggles my tiny mind!

 

[REWahoo]

Just when car makers finally reach a level where cars are mechanically more reliable than ever...

The Feb issue of Consumer Reports has an article titled "High-tech Headaches", saying new car buyers are finding "infotainment" systems to be complicated and trouble-prone. Thirty two percent of 2013 owners of the MyFord/Lincoln Touch system reported problems as did thirty percent of those with HondaLink systems.

 

[aja8888]

I just read something recently about how both Apple and Google are working with car manufacturers to more fully integrate their smartphones with the car's information systems.

I have a 2013 Honda CR-V that has begun this process. About 5-10 seconds after starting the car, the screen lights up telling me my iPhone is connected (Bluetooth). When a call comes in, I just tap a button on the steering wheel to answer it. Another button lets me say the name of the person I want to call, and the car/phone interface does the rest.

When I think about the old days when I did my own tuneups with a dwell meter and thickness gauges to adjust the points, etc., etc., it sometimes just boggles my tiny mind!

I still have my old Heathkit dwell meter in the garage. None of my younger neighbors knows what it is..

 

[F4mandolin]

I still don't need or want all the gadgets. I barely want the radio. Speedometer, gas gauge and maybe a warning light or two are all I need.

 

[audreyh1]

I just read something recently about how both Apple and Google are working with car manufacturers to more fully integrate their smartphones with the car's information systems.

I have a 2013 Honda CR-V that has begun this process. About 5-10 seconds after starting the car, the screen lights up telling me my iPhone is connected (Bluetooth). When a call comes in, I just tap a button on the steering wheel to answer it. Another button lets me say the name of the person I want to call, and the car/phone interface does the rest.

When I think about the old days when I did my own tuneups with a dwell meter and thickness gauges to adjust the points, etc., etc., it sometimes just boggles my tiny mind!

My 2005 motorhome can do this!

All we did was change out the radio.

Well, the steering wheel is not integrated with the radio, but every time DH tried to make an iPhone call driving out here it automatically came up on the radio speakers and the mic is mounted on the steering wheel - so maybe I just need to touch that. I'll have him read the manual.

 

[robnplunder]

Just when car makers finally reach a level where cars are mechanically more reliable than ever...

The Feb issue of Consumer Reports has an article titled "High-tech Headaches", saying new car buyers are finding "infotainment" systems to be complicated and trouble-prone. Thirty two percent of 2013 owners of the MyFord/Lincoln Touch system reported problems as did thirty percent of those with HondaLink systems.

Which is why I opted for an extended warranty.

 

[ERhoosier]

In addition to the e-gizmos, there's been lots of safety tech introduced in recent years. Like antilock brakes, multiple air bags, elec stability control (ESC), and bodies designed & engineered to better protect occupants in a crash. FWIW- Respected Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) now uses ESC as a required feature for it's Top Safety Pick designation.

My current ride is a '10 Nissan Altima which protects MUCH better in a crash than same model of 10 yrs before. In same IIHS 40mph "moderate overlap" crash test, driver is basically unscathed in '10 Altima but is pretty squished in '00 model (see pics in links). OUCH!

Vehicle details

Vehicle details

IMHO the safety improvements are WAY more important than voice operated stereos/phones (Bluetooth), distracting nav systems, and keyless entry/ignition ($$ remote key fobs). BTW- I have all of these new gizmos but do not consider them meaningful reasons to invest in a new ride.

 

[robnplunder]

IMHO the safety improvements are WAY more important than voice operated stereos/phones (Bluetooth), distracting nav systems, and keyless entry/ignition ($200+ remote key fobs). BTW- I have all of these new gizmos but do not consider them meaningful reasons to invest in a new ride.

Agreed.

Hyndai Azera came with bluelink (= OnStar/Cadillac). Bluetooth and voice recognition makes it safer. Instead of taking your eyes of and fumbling with your fingers, you can call out your commands while keeping your eyes on the road. It has rear view camera for backing up help. There are other safety boosting "gizmos" it came with.

 

[ERhoosier]

Some interesting videos of newer safety tech in frontal crashes. Here a 2009 small Renault clearly bests much larger (& very safe for it's time) 15yr older Volvo-

And for even older car buffs, a 2009 mid-size Chevy Malibu bests much larger '59 Bel Air (and yes I did shed at tear at the loss of such a classic ride)-

1959 Chevrolet Bel Air vs. 2009 Chevrolet Malibu IIHS crash test - YouTube

 

[Katsmeow]

I think that many people just do not realize how much safer the newer cars are compared to older cars. Also, how much benefit people get from safety features that many think are frivolous (back up camera, blind spot warning, collision avoidance, adaptive cruise control).

I was just talking to my mother about this issue (she is almost 90). She wanted me to buy her late sister's 12 year old car for my daughter. I told her that while I'm sure it is a fine vehicle I want to buy a vehicle with more of the newer safety features for my daughter. It will be used, for sure, but one that is not more than 5 years old.

The Feb issue of Consumer Reports has an article titled "High-tech Headaches", saying new car buyers are finding "infotainment" systems to be complicated and trouble-prone. Thirty two percent of 2013 owners of the MyFord/Lincoln Touch system reported problems as did thirty percent of those with HondaLink systems.

I think it just depends. I have a Ford Explorer and was worried about this issue before buying it since I had seen so many complaints about it. Over two years later, I've had zero problems with it and find it very intuitive to use. I do think it could be improved (voice recognition doesn't work as well as I think it should), but for anyone computer literate or who has ever used a touchscreen (even on a phone or tablet) it is really easy to use.

 

[Walt34]

For those who think the owner's manual is thick, try the service manual(s). When I bought my 2003 GMC pickup I bought the service manual. It is five volumes nearly a foot tall when stacked. There is an entire volume for just the electronics for the engine alone. And I did read them. Well, most of it, and then decided I'm not going to be doing much more than changing light bulbs and engine oil.

I haven't yet bought the service manual for the 2014 Honda Accord.

Made me kind of miss the days of dwell meters and timing lights, both of which occupy space in the basement.