Electric car battery life question

[joesxm3]

With a Tesla model Y battery pack, what controls the life expectency, elapsed time or number of charge cycles, assuming it is properly connected to a charge but possibly not used much?

I just bought new tires for my 20 year old Acura and would like to get some use out of them and keep the Acura as a beater car. But I am wondering if the life of the model Y would be able extended or if it will just expire on the same schedule without me enjoying driving it.

May be a moot point as I thought to do this with my Honda before the Acura and ended up driving the Acura all the time. Maybe at least I could avoid driving the Tesla when there is a lot of salt and winter road gunk to splash on it.

 

[Sunset]

^^^^^^ You spent $2K buying tires for a "beater" car

 

[joesxm3]

Did I say $2000?

Actually the tires were about $1000 and I was planning to milk another year out of the car since it only has 232,000 miles on it. I did spend another $1000 or so repairing two failed parts that would have stopped me from driving the car and getting the headlights refurbed so I can see at night.

The $13,000 price drop and $7500 tax credit changed the situation.

So I guess I can look at it as a $11,000 price drop or punish myself $1000 by forcing me to buy the white color base model.

 

[audreyh1]

With a Tesla model Y battery pack, what controls the life expectency, elapsed time or number of charge cycles, assuming it is properly connected to a charge but possibly not used much?

I just bought new tires for my 20 year old Acura and would like to get some use out of them and keep the Acura as a beater car. But I am wondering if the life of the model Y would be able extended or if it will just expire on the same schedule without me enjoying driving it.

May be a moot point as I thought to do this with my Honda before the Acura and ended up driving the Acura all the time. Maybe at least I could avoid driving the Tesla when there is a lot of salt and winter road gunk to splash on it.

Generally the Tesla car batteries will outlast the car.

We still treat it well - we don’t charge it to full level unless it’s right before a long road trip. Avoid discharging it much under 10%. Don’t leave it stored near empty or near full. At home generally keep it between 65% and 30%.

A rarely used battery will not shorten the battery life AFAIK. Just keep it charged somewhere in the mid range.

The battery is also covered under a long warranty:

The Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty for the Model Y covers those systems for 8 years or 120,000 miles in the Long Range and Performance trims. This warranty covers damage due to battery fires or unacceptably low battery capacity retention (see the battery warranty section for fuller details on how this works).

If you don’t plan to drive it much, or won’t drive it for long distances only charging at home, you might want to explore all your EV options.

 

[joesxm3]

Thanks.

I saw a picture of your car, but could not tell what model it was. Looked like the expensive one?

 

[REWahoo]

Generally the Tesla car batteries will outlast the car.

We still treat it well - we don’t charge it to full level unless it’s right before a long road trip. Avoid discharging it much under 10%. Don’t leave it stored near empty or near full. At home generally keep it between 65% and 30%.

A rarely used battery will not shorten the battery life AFAIK. Just keep it charged somewhere in the mid range.

^ This.

EV batteries have thermal management systems preventing them from getting too hot or too cold and should last for many years if you follow these guidelines.

 

[audreyh1]

Thanks.

I saw a picture of your car, but could not tell what model it was. Looked like the expensive one?

Yes, I have a Model X long range and it is the most expensive Tesla model although it is cheaper than the high performance version which has a reduced range.

How to recognize a Tesla Model X (if you care as most people don’t):

• The easiest clue is side view where you can see the door handles (buttons actually) meet. This is because the back doors are falcon wing doors that raise and only the Model X has them.
  
• Another clue is that the door buttons are straight and lack a hook that you see on the Models 3 and Y which have self presenting handles. I’m not sure how the Model S door handles work but I know that they don’t have that hook. Our car you push on the button and the door opens.
  
• Finally the front of the car has a black recess behind the Tesla symbol. This design detail is only seen on the Models S and X. The Models 3 and Y are flat in this area and the car color. Looks more of a snub nose.

These are very subtle differences.

 

[Bamaman]

I find that "Rich Rebuilds" on YouTube opens eyes about Teslas. If you purchase or lease one, I suggest you have a spare vehicle.

In my area, the cars have to be taken 110 miles for major service.

As for the frequency you'll have to replace a battery, I have no idea. But it's not uncommon for a battery to cost $23K if the vehicle is out of warranty.

Teslas are works of engineering genius. They get better every year. But they're very troublesome and the company works in mysterious ways. I sometimes the people that work there don't know what they're doing. It's common that as cars are bounced around from city to city, the vehicles' MSO and papers get lost. The company is just not good at execution.

I'm on my second Toyota Hybrid which cost about half that of the Tesla Model 3. I get 41.5 mpg, and I've not seen a Toyota shop in my 5 years in them. Toyota is engineering 100% EV's for Lexus but holding back on Toyota brands by pushing hybrids. If the big green deal goes through, they're poised to build fantastic EVs. Otherwise they're not mortgaging their company's future on mandated EV's--like all the other brands.

 

[joesxm3]

The doors would never open up in my garage that has less than eight feet ceiling. I am going to have to adjust the model Y hatch as it is.

Old habits are hard to break. It just occurred to me that if I took the $60,000 that I would spend on the model Y and bought to bills it would throw off over $2500 a year to keep fixing the Arghh.

 

[audreyh1]

It comes down to priorities then. Most decisions aren’t purely financial.

 

[joesxm3]

Well, I put my order in.

I hope it is equivalent to buying a call option on the model Y for $250. There was some language about losing the "paid" deposit or transport fee in addition to the $250 order fee.

I am guessing that as you are closer to delivery they might demand more up front. I was under the impression that once your car was ready you sent the full amount by ACH unless you played hard ball and carried in a cashier check.

I will try to ask questions on Tuesday.

I guess this fits the blow that dough category. What finally tipped me was the idea that while I could keep fixing the old car, when it breaks it might be inconvenient and I might be left car less while it is repaired. Last fix I had to rent a car.

 

[REWahoo]

I think you will be very happy with your decision.

 

[Midpack]

I get more tempted to order an MYLR every day at these prices with the tax credit. I did get an insurance quote and that gave me pause - about 70% higher than my ‘22 Santa Fe? I’ve read EVs generate lower claims but legacy insurance hasn’t caught up with that, so they’re charging more to be safe. And Tesla insurance isn’t available in my state yet.

 

[REWahoo]

I did get an insurance quote and that gave me pause - about 70% higher than my ‘22 Santa Fe? I’ve read EVs generate lower claims but legacy insurance hasn’t caught up with that, so they’re charging more to be safe. And Tesla insurance isn’t available in my state yet.

Ouch.

I realize it isn't an apples to apples comparison, but insurance for my 2022 Bolt EUV is 20% less than my 2021 Toyota Highlander hybrid.

 

[MichaelB]

Why should the Tesla battery be kept at mid-charge instead of 1) full charge, then recharge every night, or 2) full charge, then run down to low level?

 

[joesxm3]

I did not get a quote for model Y, but I did before for model 3 dual motor. That was about $2200. I hope with the price drop the insurance will be close to that. Surprisingly, keeping the Acura lowered the insurance by $27 due to multi car discount.

Insurance and property tax will certainly be a shock. Not to mention the 6.35% sales tax.

I just hope I get the full $7500 tax credit. They may find some way to stick it to Tesla if I don't get delivery by March.

 

[NW-Bound]

Why should the Tesla battery be kept at mid-charge instead of 1) full charge, then recharge every night, or 2) full charge, then run down to low level?

^^^ It's the nature of lithium cells that they retain their capacity better if not kept in storage at 100% charge.

My Samsung smartphone can be put in to a mode that charges the battery to 85% instead of 100% to prolong battery life. The user can put the charge level back up to 100% when he needs a longer run time, such as during travel for example.

I have seen studies where they charged identical cells to different levels, then put them on the shelf for some months. They then tested the cells for calendar aging effects. The cells that were charged to 100% then put away lost more capacity than the cells not fully charged up before storage.

EV owners are advised to charge the battery to 100% only when they anticipate a long drive.

 

[REWahoo]

Why should the Tesla battery be kept at mid-charge instead of 1) full charge, then recharge every night, or 2) full charge, then run down to low level?

Frequent 0% to 100% cycling of the battery isn't ideal for battery longevity.

Charging or draining a lithium-ion battery from 0-100% is known as a charging cycle, which is the main factor that causes batteries to degrade.

Electric car battery life: how to preserve your battery

 

[aaronc879]

I did not get a quote for model Y, but I did before for model 3 dual motor. That was about $2200. I hope with the price drop the insurance will be close to that. Surprisingly, keeping the Acura lowered the insurance by $27 due to multi car discount.

Insurance and property tax will certainly be a shock. Not to mention the 6.35% sales tax.

I just hope I get the full $7500 tax credit. They may find some way to stick it to Tesla if I don't get delivery by March.

$2200 for annual insurance on a Tesla? I guess I will stop any thought of getting on. That is 5X what I pay on my 2022 Kia.

 

[MichaelB]

^^^ It's the nature of lithium cells that they retain their capacity better if not kept in storage at 100% charge.

My Samsung smartphone can be put in to a mode that charges the battery to 85% instead of 100% to prolong battery life. The user can put the charge level back up to 100% when he needs a longer run time, such as during travel for example.

I have seen studies where they charged identical cells to different levels, then put them on the shelf for some months. They then tested the cells for calendar aging effects. The cells that were charged to 100% then put away lost more capacity than the cells not fully charged up before storage.

EV owners are advised to charge the battery to 100% only when they anticipate a long drive.

Thanks. So, we should be doing the same for iPhones and iPad? Trying to keep it in the 30% - 80% charged range? I have always gone from fully charged to very low, but also notice that my batteries start losing capacity pretty early, within 2 years of purchase, which IMO isn’t long.

sorry - don’t want to hijack

 

[NW-Bound]

Thanks. So, we should be doing the same for iPhones and iPad? Trying to keep it in the 30% - 80% charged range?

As mentioned, my Samsung phone can be put in a 85% max charge mode. I don't have to watch the charge level to disconnect it at the right time to avoid 100% charging.

My new Lenovo laptop does not have this mode. But I recall a poster mentioning his laptop having this reduced charging mode.

Yes, proper battery management is what gets the Tesla battery to last longer than expected, compared to lithium cells in electronic products.

 

[REWahoo]

Thanks. So, we should be doing the same for iPhones and iPad? Trying to keep it in the 30% - 80% charged range?

Yes, that will help maintain battery life.


We have a couple of laptops that allow us to limit charging to 80%. We buy Motorola Android phones and don't worry about battery life since they are inexpensive to replace.

 

[NW-Bound]

One thing people may not realize is that lithium cells suffer from calendar aging as well as cycle-life aging. With calendar aging, a cell loses its capacity even if sitting unused on a shelf. Cycle-life aging happens when a cell is exercised by repeated charging and discharging.

And charging a cell to 100% aggravates both calendar aging as well as cycle-life aging.

LFP cells typically can last 2000 cycles of 0-100% charge/discharge before their capacity is reduced to 80% of new.

For a car that goes 300 miles, that's 600,000 miles.

I have seen LFP cells that boast a life of 4000 cycles before the 80% degradation.

However, most EVs do not use LFP cells but the other chemistries that provide a higher energy density. They use the same chemistries as used in laptop and smartphone batteries.

 

[joesxm3]

Maybe I need to shop around for insurance. I have always had GEICO and even now I think I pay $300 or $400 twice a year for bare bones coverage on the old Acura. I do have a high liability amount required by my umbrella policy.

Maybe the crime rate in your area matters too.

 

[NW-Bound]

I forgot to mention that the non-LFP chemistries such as NMC (nickel-manganese-cobalt) or NCA (nickel-cobalt-aluminum) lithium cells typically have a life of 500 cycles before the 80% capacity degradation.

It can be easily seen why the laptops and smartphones have their batteries worn out after a couple of years.

EVs with the same cells last longer than a couple of years, mainly because people do not drive to exhaust their car battery every single day. But if a car has a small range and you use it to commute to work, then yes, it does not last many years indeed.