2.3T from Fed

ripper1

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With the Fed pouring 2.3 trillion into the economy are they essentially bailing out the stock market? What about bonds and bond funds? A couple of weeks ago a personality I follow suggested to get out of all bonds and bond funds and go to chicken money. IOW, MMF, CD, Stable Value if you have one, etc. BTW, I only had about a 10% total position in FXNAX and VBTLX. Thoughts from the distinguished panel. Thanks:)
 
The Fed is now buying junk bond ETFs. Equities soon to follow.
There is no such thing as price discovery any more. Chose your assets wisely.
 
Privatizing gains and socializing losses is the American way.
 
If you only have 10% in total bond, I wouldn't be concerned about it.
 
+1 I'm very concerned about what the Fed is doing artificially propping up certain asset classes... essentially picking winners and losers... at least temporarily. Let junk bonds take a hit for credit risk if the market decides that... same with equities.
 
+1 I'm very concerned about what the Fed is doing artificially propping up certain asset classes... essentially picking winners and losers... at least temporarily. Let junk bonds take a hit for credit risk if the market decides that... same with equities.

The Fed program so far is restricted to investment-grade bonds, no junk bonds. You can read the gory details here:

https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/monetary20200409a.htm

See the primary and secondary credit facilities fact sheets.
 
The Fed program so far is restricted to investment-grade bonds, no junk bonds. You can read the gory details here:

https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/monetary20200409a.htm

See the primary and secondary credit facilities fact sheets.

It does include downgraded corporates, fallen angels if you prefer. IE Junk. This may help explain the jump in Vanguards high yield corp fund VWEAX. The fund has in the past been tilted toward the higher end of the ratings, BB. It may be a better time to have an actively managed fund than an ETF. However, I don't want to digress from the main issue, from which I'll refrain. Times they are a changin.
 
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Thanks... Spock's post said junk bonds so that misled me.

The article stated junk was included... with the specific example give of Ford bonds. Also the bond ETFs being bought where said to be "mostly IG" but not IG only.
 
Must be some article that you read because there were no links on your post. So you seem to be saying that the Fed is buying bond ETFs? Why would they do that?
 
Yes, buying fallen angels in investment grade funds (or individually I guess) is not the same as buying "junk bond ETFs".
 
The article stated junk was included... with the specific example give of Ford bonds. Also the bond ETFs being bought where said to be "mostly IG" but not IG only.

You need to read the fine print. The Fed will only buy the so called "fallen angels" - The one's that were downgraded to Junk since March 22nd. Many junk bond ETFs were heavily short, and the short sellers ran for cover. Also consider that many Junk bonds are safer than investment grade bonds/notes (i.e. Netflix, Western Digital, Centurylink, Advanced Micro Devices). Here is a perspective from Barron's:

Thursday’s Junk-Bond Rally May Have Been a Fed-Fueled Mirage
By Alexandra Scaggs
April 10, 2020 12:19 pm ET


Most of the central bank’s junk-bond intervention will likely be limited to “fallen angels,” or companies that were rated investment grade on March 22 when the program was introduced. None of the companies downgraded last month have been added to the index yet; its monthly reconstitution was delayed for the first time ever in March because of market volatility.


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Good info. However while we're splitting hairs over fallen angels vs high yield vs plain old junk, the 800# gorilla remains in the middle of the room.
 
.... Many junk bond ETFs were heavily short, and the short sellers ran for cover. ....

Perhaps another reason for prohibiting short selling of stocks and bonds... selling something that you don't own... what a great investment idea. :facepalm:
 
Perhaps another reason for prohibiting short selling of stocks and bonds... selling something that you don't own... what a great investment idea. :facepalm:

Short sellers play an important role in the market. They are the only ones that do real research and uncover fraud and accounting irregularities.
 
+1 I'm very concerned about what the Fed is doing artificially propping up certain asset classes....

Generally I agree, but...

the government basically told much of the private economy to stop, just go home and stop.

Given this situation, it makes some sense for the government to take some steps to mitigate the damage they are doing.
 
Short sellers play an important role in the market. They are the only ones that do real research and uncover fraud and accounting irregularities.

I seem to remember that long stock pickers do the same thing... both have an interest in whether the company's financials.... both long and short require a deep-dive into the company's filings and supplementary materials.
 
I seem to remember that long stock pickers do the same thing... both have an interest in whether the company's financials.... both long and short require a deep-dive into the company's filings and supplementary materials.

Like during the dotcom bubble?
 
Feel like a chump moving to Govvies and high grade bonds and forgoing yield over the last couple years.

Will the Fed be required to announce which bonds they are propping up? Lots of room for insider trading and favoritism here.
 
How are other countries treating the bond situation? Or equities for that matter. Are some not inclined to inject $$$? It will be interesting how it all shakes out.
 
In regards to how the Fed affects asset prices....I used to consider gold (and silver) investments to be the realm of the tinfoil hat club, but around Q4, 2018 I started buying them heavily. The research I’ve done has led me to believe that the gold price, over long periods, basically follows the money supply, and we all know money is being “printed” by the trillions currently. Obviously a bunch of printed money finds its way into stocks, but it pretty directly affects gold prices as gold is, more or less, a fixed quantity that can’t be printed so it takes more newly minted dollars to buy one unit of gold. What may surprise some on this forum is that gold has outperformed the S&P 500 for the five year, fifteen year and twenty year periods that end now. (For the last 10 years stocks have outperformed in a bigly way, but I suspect that outperformance will abate since many companies are ending their buyback programs which have been the primary source of US stock demand for the past 4-5 years.). Silver hasn’t done so well, but it’s currently very cheap compared with gold (the gold/silver ratio) which historically has led to major outperformance from silver.

Like most of us, I was raised on buy and hold index stock investing. But the Fed has manipulated markets so much for a couple decades now that I decided to dig a bit deeper into how their actions affect various asset classes, and to open my mind to alternatives I wouldn’t have previously considered.
 
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