Another Social Security Question

[qwerty3656]

We are viewing SS as longevity insurance and are likely going to wait til 70 to file. We are the same age, I'm the primary bread winner and full retirement age is 67. I thought that if we waited for me to file at 70, then when one of us dies the other would get the "age 70 payment". I just saw a video that suggested that if I die 1st, my wife, as surviving spouse, would only get the "Full retirement age benefit" or the "age 67 payment".

Is that right. If she dies I get the "age 70 payment", but if I die she only gets the "age 67 payment"? If that is true, I think we might reconsider waiting til 70 and istead file at age 67 (she is much more likely to be the surviving spouse).

 

[SecondCor521]

That doesn't sound right to me. Typically if a married couple is both collecting SS and then one dies, the remaining spouse gets the larger benefit and the smaller benefit goes away.

But SS is complicated, so it's possible the video was talking about a different scenario, or didn't explain it well, or you misunderstood, or the video is plain wrong.

It also might depend on whether or not you both make it to age 70.

You might take a look at opensocialsecurity.com and see what it recommends for claiming strategies with your specific inputs. It's an excellent tool provided by a well-respected person.

If you have 50 minutes, you could watch a YouTube video on the subject. Mike Piper is the author of opensocialsecurity.com:

If it's the video I'm thinking of, it walks through the logic of the various claiming strategies and talks about situations where you may want to choose particular claiming strategies.

HTH.

 

[tfudtuckerpucker]

The rules make my eyes go cross-eyed.
- putting off claiming Social Security until age 70 and accruing delayed retirement credits do not apply to spousal benefits.
- The most your spouse can receive on your work record is 50 percent of your primary insurance amount.
- there's also a family maximum benefit.

https://bit.ly/3Zm8V0Z

 

[ivinsfan]

What's the difference in your FRA amount that's a factor too. You don't indicate your wife will file a spousal ..

 

[Trailwalker]

"Surviving spouse, full retirement age or older — 100% of the deceased worker's benefit amount."


https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/survivors/ifyou.html

 

[Fire26]

I believe if you wait until 70 and she is claiming off your benefit it will be calculated off your number at 67.

When you pass she would get the the full benefit that you were receiving regardless of the age you claimed

 

[Sunset]

I believe if you wait until 70 and she is claiming off your benefit it will be calculated off your number at 67.

When you pass she would get the the full benefit that you were receiving regardless of the age you claimed

Right, so if OP waits until age 70 then the survivor benefit after he dies is the age 70 amount.

 

[Sunset]

We are viewing SS as longevity insurance and are likely going to wait til 70 to file. We are the same age, I'm the primary bread winner and full retirement age is 67. I thought that if we waited for me to file at 70, then when one of us dies the other would get the "age 70 payment". I just saw a video that suggested that if I die 1st, my wife, as surviving spouse, would only get the "Full retirement age benefit" or the "age 67 payment".

Is that right. If she dies I get the "age 70 payment", but if I die she only gets the "age 67 payment"? If that is true, I think we might reconsider waiting til 70 and istead file at age 67 (she is much more likely to be the surviving spouse).

A key question is: Did she work and will collect on her own record ?


If not then:
Because if she was a stay at home mom, then she can collect spousal benefits (but I think only when you apply). That might make you think to apply at 67 and both you get SS (you yours and she 1/2 yours) rather than miss out on the 1.5 years worth of your SS via spousal claim.

 

[Exchme]

If you pass before your FRA (67) and your wife immediately claims survivor benefits, then the size of those benefits is permanently reduced.

If she worked outside the home enough to qualify for benefits on her own record, then she usually should claim on her own record immediately on your passing and then claim survivor benefits at 66 & 8 months (they reach your PIA value when she turns 66 & 8 months, so she should certainly claim survivor benefits by then). If she does not qualify for benefits on her own work record, then she would just wait until age 66 & 8 months and then claim survivor benefits.

If you pass between 67 and 70 before claiming, then she is entitled to the check you would have gotten if you claimed at the moment you passed.

Note that opensocialsecurity.com can handle these kind of case studies.

 

[pb4uski]

Right, so if OP waits until age 70 then the survivor benefit after he dies is the age 70 amount.

+1

 

[finnski1]

We are viewing SS as longevity insurance and are likely going to wait til 70 to file. We are the same age, I'm the primary bread winner and full retirement age is 67. I thought that if we waited for me to file at 70, then when one of us dies the other would get the "age 70 payment". I just saw a video that suggested that if I die 1st, my wife, as surviving spouse, would only get the "Full retirement age benefit" or the "age 67 payment".

Is that right. If she dies I get the "age 70 payment", but if I die she only gets the "age 67 payment"? If that is true, I think we might reconsider waiting til 70 and istead file at age 67 (she is much more likely to be the surviving spouse).

No.You were right. If you make it to age 70 (and haven't filed yet) she would get the age 70. If you die before age 70 and haven't filed she would get what ever your benefit would have been at the age of your death.
The motto here is "make it to 70"

 

[qwerty3656]

Apparently, benefits earned after full retirement age are called "delayed retirement credits" and the surviving spouse is entitled to them (but as someone said you want to make it til 70 because they stop accruing when you die).

Here is a link to an ssa gov website:

https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/4...nt credits, including,the month of your death.


The relevant section is here:

"If you earn delayed retirement credits during your lifetime, we will compute benefits for your surviving spouse or surviving divorced spouse based on your regular primary insurance amount plus the amount of those delayed retirement credits. All delayed retirement credits, including any earned during the year of death, can be used in computing the benefit amount for your surviving spouse or surviving divorced spouse beginning with the month of your death. We compute delayed retirement credits up to but not including the month of death."

 

[Chuckanut]

This might help:

https://www.ncnewsonline.com/news/l...cle_998522ae-bb61-11ec-ac45-7b04fcd05e04.html

Emphasis added.

Q: I want to make sure my wife gets the highest widow’s benefits possible after I’m gone. How do I do that?
A: If that’s your only goal with respect to claiming your own Social Security benefits, then the answer is really rather simple: Wait as long as possible to sign up for your retirement benefits.

While you are alive, any spousal benefits your wife might be due are based on your full retirement age benefit amount. But after you’re gone, her widow’s rate will be based on whatever benefit rate you were getting at the time of your death. So, for example, if you waited until age 70 to start your Social Security, meaning you would be getting about 130% of your FRA benefit, your wife will also get that 130% rate in the form of widow’s benefits (assuming she is over her FRA when you die).

 

[thatguy]

I claimed at 62, 17 years ago. There has been multiple COL increases to the original age 62 benefit. What is the survivor benefit for my DW, at or after age 68?

At age 62 a SS statement showed my FRA amount. I have no idea what would be considered my FRA amount today at age 79. Is the survivor benefit my FRA amount?

Her own SS amount might exceed mine. While we were both working I was the higher earner. Younger DW retired 9 years later and her last years worked were higher income than my last years worked. We plan on DW filing at 70. We know her age 70 amount is significantly larger than the amount I'm receiving.

 

[djsander]

I claimed at 62, 17 years ago. There has been multiple COL increases to the original age 62 benefit. What is the survivor benefit for my DW, at or after age 68?

At age 62 a SS statement showed my FRA amount. I have no idea what would be considered my FRA amount today at age 79. Is the survivor benefit my FRA amount?

Her own SS amount might exceed mine. While we were both working I was the higher earner. Younger DW retired 9 years later and her last years worked were higher income than my last years worked. We plan on DW filing at 70. We know her age 70 amount is significantly larger than the amount I'm receiving.

I might be wrong, but your FRA amount which is your PIA is adjusted for inflation every year. So at 79 your FRA (PIA) amount has adjusted every year with the COLAs. I believe if this is correct then you can take your current benefit and calculate what the PIA has adjusted to by using the decrease percentage that was applied when you took it at 62. Like I said I could be wrong, but I believe read somewhere the actual cola calculation was applied to your PIA every year and then the reduction was applied to receive your benefit. The PIA or FRA amount isn’t frozen in time. I’m sure if I’m wrong I’ll be corrected. The many strange and confusing issues of SS.

 

[MissMolly]

I claimed at 62, 17 years ago. There has been multiple COL increases to the original age 62 benefit. What is the survivor benefit for my DW, at or after age 68?

At age 62 a SS statement showed my FRA amount. I have no idea what would be considered my FRA amount today at age 79. Is the survivor benefit my FRA amount?

Her own SS amount might exceed mine. While we were both working I was the higher earner. Younger DW retired 9 years later and her last years worked were higher income than my last years worked. We plan on DW filing at 70. We know her age 70 amount is significantly larger than the amount I'm receiving.

In your case, it sounds like your DW has reached FRA. If so, if you pass prior to her reaching age 70, she should claim survivor and allow her own to continue to grow to age 70. At that time, she would switch to her own, assuming it is higher. As long as she is at least FRA when she claims survivor, she will receive whatever amount you were receiving.

 

[thatguy]

I might be wrong, but your FRA amount which is your PIA is adjusted for inflation every year. So at 79 your FRA (PIA) amount has adjusted every year with the COLAs. I believe if this is correct then you can take your current benefit and calculate what the PIA has adjusted to by using the decrease percentage that was applied when you took it at 62. Like I said I could be wrong, but I believe read somewhere the actual cola calculation was applied to your PIA every year and then the reduction was applied to receive your benefit. The PIA or FRA amount isn’t frozen in time. I’m sure if I’m wrong I’ll be corrected. The many strange and confusing issues of SS.

It make a lot of sense the way you explained it. I think I should be able take whatever SS statements we have and apply COL adjustments to one specific point in time, just to compare which is more. It's not gonna change anything. I just want to know.

In your case, it sounds like your DW has reached FRA. If so, if you pass prior to her reaching age 70, she should claim survivor and allow her own to continue to grow to age 70. At that time, she would switch to her own, assuming it is higher. As long as she is at least FRA when she claims survivor, she will receive whatever amount you were receiving.

That's the plan. I only need to last 2 more years till DW's age 70 SS.
We took pensions with no survivor benefit to maximize early retirement amounts, so maximizing her SS is important to her as a survivor. There is retirement savings to withdraw from to make up the difference.

 

[MissMolly]

It make a lot of sense the way you explained it. I think I should be able take whatever SS statements we have and apply COL adjustments to one specific point in time, just to compare which is more. It's not gonna change anything. I just want to know.




That's the plan. I only need to last 2 more years till DW's age 70 SS.
We took pensions with no survivor benefit to maximize early retirement amounts, so maximizing her SS is important. There is retirement savings to withdraw from to make up the difference.

Actually, you can kick the bucket today. She can take survivor benefits immediately and continue to wait until her own benefits continue accruing until she is 70

 

[oldtimer]

Just enter your PIA info in the opensocialsecurity.com website and click on the interactive graphic near the bottom of the results page to see how different claiming dates impact your total SS lifetime income.

Check the checkbox at the top of the page to override the various default assumptions to fit your range of scenarios you are considering.

 

[oldtimer]

Just enter your PIA info in the opensocialsecurity.com website and click on the interactive graphic near the bottom of the results page to see how different claiming dates impact your total SS lifetime income.

Check the checkbox at the top of the page to override the various default assumptions to fit your range of scenarios you are considering.

If the SS account doesn't have your COLA adjusted PIA, then copy the earnings history from the SS website and paste it into the calculator at ssa.tools.