Any issues getting credit cards post retirement?

But I have never seen questions like "how long have you been retired?", or questions about net worth, or recent changes in employment, or expectations about changes in employment, so in the big scheme it must not matter enough to make a difference.

By the time you retire there are a few decades of history in your credit report.
The only thing the credit card company cares about is if you will pay them back what you've charged. The credit report tells them 99% of what they want to know. Thirty years of "everything paid on time as agreed" is all they need. Your income is a much smaller issue --- if you've always paid on time then they figure that you will manage to find the money to pay them.
 
No, not true at all. What you report to the IRS is a matter of what they legally require you to do so they can give you a tax bill.

I count as income a 5% withdrawal rate (I'm very generous to myself!) from our portfolios. So what if I only spend 3% and re-invest 2%? Actually, to cut down on the paperwork, I short-circuit the process and only take out 3%.

For the purposes of stating your annual income to a credit card company, other than paycheck stubs, SS and pension, they consider what is reported to the IRS as your income, and you can demonstrate it with a copy of the filed 1040 if necessary. This is also the same number used by Medicare, the ACA, and others to determine premiums, eligibility for assistance, etc.

Our retirement fund usually generates more taxable income than what we take out for spending. The rest is reinvested. But whenever I answer the annual income question on a credit application I use what I reported to the IRS for the prior year, as that is the only thing I can back up with documentation.

Anything else is just personal accounting and won't mean anything to a credit or loan company, especially as they don't consider net worth.
 
By the time you retire there are a few decades of history in your credit report.
The only thing the credit card company cares about is if you will pay them back what you've charged. The credit report tells them 99% of what they want to know. Thirty years of "everything paid on time as agreed" is all they need. Your income is a much smaller issue --- if you've always paid on time then they figure that you will manage to find the money to pay them.

This just isn't true, at least as far as getting a significant credit limit. If all you want is the standard $10-15K they give out, you're right. But I want a $50-100K limit, and they just won't give it to me despite paying it off every month (sometimes more than once), never missing a payment, and a credit score in the 800s. And I've had these same cards since the early 90s. But to get the really high limits they base it almost exclusively off your income, although I'm sure a crappy credit score would impact that. So I may try to play a few income games and see if I can get the higher limits I need. It's not like I'm scamming them, other than racking up massive rewards points a few times a year. They get paid, I don't have to jump through hoops, everybody would be happy.
 
This just isn't true, at least as far as getting a significant credit limit. If all you want is the standard $10-15K they give out, you're right. But I want a $50-100K limit, and they just won't give it to me despite paying it off every month (sometimes more than once), never missing a payment, and a credit score in the 800s. And I've had these same cards since the early 90s. But to get the really high limits they base it almost exclusively off your income, although I'm sure a crappy credit score would impact that. So I may try to play a few income games and see if I can get the higher limits I need. It's not like I'm scamming them, other than racking up massive rewards points a few times a year. They get paid, I don't have to jump through hoops, everybody would be happy.


There appears to be no systematic method for credit limits based on my 5 cards. Two were given to me with initial $25,000 limits. A third one last year sent me an unsolicited letter saying I could increase my limit from $17,500 to $25,000 IF I CALLED them to do it. The fourth one a couple years ago doubled my limit without even asking. And ironically the 5th one (the one I use 95% of the time and receive my cash back from) has the lowest limit of $6500 and has never increased it or solicited me to the 10 years I have used it.


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I think the overlooked factor in wondering about credit limits is that different lenders use different guidelines. Some are known for giving large credit lines (PenFed is one) and some are a lot stingier (Capital One often, Discover as well). If I applied for Discover today I'd never get a credit line the size of what I got with the Discover card I applied for in 2008, probably not even half.


But once you get larger limits from one or two lenders, other issuers seem to be more likely to follow suit.
 
We never had any problem getting credit cards. I don't think merchants have access to your income info, which is legally defined on 1099 forms that only the IRS has. So, they took whatever we told them at face value, and I told my wife to always give them what we actually spent. And as that value was quite reasonable for a working couple, in fact quite low compared to our income when still working, they never questioned it.

If we are to apply for a mortgage, I think they will demand more proof, and the 1099 would be one. I remember that a poster here got a bit of a problem even though his after-tax cash hoard was a lot larger than the mortgage. Banks did not know how to deal with that, and probably still don't.
 
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If we are to apply for a mortgage, I think they will demand more proof, and the 1099 would be one. I remember that a poster here got a bit of a problem even though his after-tax cash hoard was a lot larger than the mortgage. Banks did not know how to deal with that, and probably still don't.

As I stated in an earlier post a new rule introduced by Freddie Mac allows retirement assets to be used to qualify for a mortgage. A certain percentage of retirement assets are used for qualification so a $1 million portfolio will provide a additional 24K of annual income.

Buying a home in retirement
 
We never had any problem getting credit cards. I don't think merchants have access to your income info, which is legally defined on 1099 forms that only the IRS has.

Umm...are you sure only the IRS has it? Hacking of Tax Returns More Extensive Than First Reported, I.R.S. Says

But your point is taken. Next time I ask for a higher limit I'll give them a higher income. Truly, my income can be pretty much anything I want it to be. I've always reported just my tax return income, which I work to keep below the 15% bracket for Roth conversion purposes.
 
We never had any problem getting credit cards. I don't think merchants have access to your income info, which is legally defined on 1099 forms that only the IRS has. So, they took whatever we told them at face value, and I told my wife to always give them what we actually spent. And as that value was quite reasonable for a working couple, in fact quite low compared to our income when still working, they never questioned it.

If we are to apply for a mortgage, I think they will demand more proof, and the 1099 would be one. I remember that a poster here got a bit of a problem even though his after-tax cash hoard was a lot larger than the mortgage. Banks did not know how to deal with that, and probably still don't.
No, no credit company/bank has your IRS documents (hacking not counted). But they may request an IRS transcript (the official IRS version of your tax filing) as proof of income.
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/mortgages/why-mortgage-lenders-want-tax-returns-1.aspx
 
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Umm...are you sure only the IRS has it? Hacking of Tax Returns More Extensive Than First Reported, I.R.S. Says

But your point is taken. Next time I ask for a higher limit I'll give them a higher income. Truly, my income can be pretty much anything I want it to be. I've always reported just my tax return income, which I work to keep below the 15% bracket for Roth conversion purposes.

Now we've come full circle to exactly what I said a few days ago....and exactly what I told the credit card company who raised my limit about 2 minutes later. Of course I don't know how high they would've gone.
 
If we are to apply for a mortgage, I think they will demand more proof, and the 1099 would be one. I remember that a poster here got a bit of a problem even though his after-tax cash hoard was a lot larger than the mortgage. Banks did not know how to deal with that, and probably still don't.

It unusual, but the higher up mortgage loan processors & underwriters are familiar with it. We learned about it on our first refi after retiring, ca. 2007.

They want to see something that looks similar to a regular paycheck. Specifically, broker instructions to send you $X/mo from an IRA/401k, and the enough money in that account to support that withdrawal for 3 years. Sometimes (for me, the 2nd refi not the 1st refi) they want to see that money being deposited into your checking account for 2 months. Even back in 2006 that was all spelled out in the FNMA guidelines.

The 1st refi was a hassle until the loan processor found the experienced underwriter to explain it to him. The 2nd & 3rd refi's I knew the magic words to say to the processor, and no problem.

Note that for a mortgage, everybody adheres to the FNMA/FreddieMac guidelines. That's one guideline for every bank.
For Credit cards, etc. each bank sets its own guidelines.
 
They want to see something that looks similar to a regular paycheck. Specifically, broker instructions to send you $X/mo from an IRA/401k, and the enough money in that account to support that withdrawal for 3 years. Sometimes (for me, the 2nd refi not the 1st refi) they want to see that money being deposited into your checking account for 2 months. Even back in 2006 that was all spelled out in the FNMA guidelines.

<snip>.

Note that for a mortgage, everybody adheres to the FNMA/FreddieMac guidelines. That's one guideline for every bank.
For Credit cards, etc. each bank sets its own guidelines.

This is consistent with what I found; I told them we get $X per year form the investments and they asked for proof of what we were withdrawing every month. Since it was taken out in irregular chunks over the previous 12 months, it wasn't what they were looking for and it didn't fit into the neat little boxes in the FNMA/Freddie Mac guidelines. We were only one year post-retirement, so it was a relatively short track record.

We ended up with a 3% fixed rate on 15 years, so I doubt we'll want to refinance, but I can see wanting an HELOC at some point. It was a handy way to smooth out major bumps such as a car purchase here and there. Starting in January, I'm going to leave a standing order with the brokerage to just send us a nice, even $X per month so we can make the bank happy if we want to borrow again.
 
I got turned down in Aug- I was trying to reap the rewards of a travel card. Filled out the app truthfully, I currently have no income, but am living off of my savings.
Told them that too. (I ER'ed last year) I had an 825 credit score, NO DEBT AT ALL, an impeccable payment history over the last 35 years.

There was no place on the application to discuss savings or retirement accounts or balances. I discussed this with the bank representative. They turned me down for lack of "income." To add insult to injury, the rejection brought my credit score down to 796.

What's in my wallet? Mostly cash.
 
As I stated in an earlier post a new rule introduced by Freddie Mac allows retirement assets to be used to qualify for a mortgage. A certain percentage of retirement assets are used for qualification so a $1 million portfolio will provide a additional 24K of annual income.

Buying a home in retirement

It unusual, but the higher up mortgage loan processors & underwriters are familiar with it. We learned about it on our first refi after retiring, ca. 2007.

They want to see something that looks similar to a regular paycheck. Specifically, broker instructions to send you $X/mo from an IRA/401k, and the enough money in that account to support that withdrawal for 3 years. Sometimes (for me, the 2nd refi not the 1st refi) they want to see that money being deposited into your checking account for 2 months. Even back in 2006 that was all spelled out in the FNMA guidelines.

The 1st refi was a hassle until the loan processor found the experienced underwriter to explain it to him. The 2nd & 3rd refi's I knew the magic words to say to the processor, and no problem.

Note that for a mortgage, everybody adheres to the FNMA/FreddieMac guidelines. That's one guideline for every bank.
For Credit cards, etc. each bank sets its own guidelines.

No, no credit company/bank has your IRS documents (hacking not counted). But they may request an IRS transcript (the official IRS version of your tax filing) as proof of income.
Why Mortgage Lenders Want Tax Returns | Bankrate.com

Good info for retirees who want to check out a mortgage.

For run-of-the-mill credit, travel, or store cards to get some rewards, any reasonable number I gave them based on our actual expense - and conforming to FIRCalc 30-year run I might add - was accepted without any question. I believe that for smaller credit limits of $10K-20K, the income info is secondary to the personal credit score.
 
After I retired I wanted to get a HELOC in place from my bank where the mortgage is held. I had over 80% equity at that time. They wouldn't accept copies of our pension checks or tax return. They wanted a letter from our ex-mega. Several phone calls with ex-mega got us no where. We only wanted a small HELOC to use for emergency fund. When the bank learned that, they said we could have a LOC for that amount. We said fine. We later got an offer from the same bank for a free re-fi. When we checked, they wanted the same type of information. We dropped that saying well you offered us.
 
I got turned down in Aug- I was trying to reap the rewards of a travel card. Filled out the app truthfully, I currently have no income, but am living off of my savings.
Told them that too. (I ER'ed last year) I had an 825 credit score, NO DEBT AT ALL, an impeccable payment history over the last 35 years.

There was no place on the application to discuss savings or retirement accounts or balances. I discussed this with the bank representative. They turned me down for lack of "income." To add insult to injury, the rejection brought my credit score down to 796.

What's in my wallet? Mostly cash.
What was on last year's tax return? So low you didn't pay any taxes?
 
This is consistent with what I found; I told them we get $X per year form the investments and they asked for proof of what we were withdrawing every month. Since it was taken out in irregular chunks over the previous 12 months, it wasn't what they were looking for and it didn't fit into the neat little boxes in the FNMA/Freddie Mac guidelines. We were only one year post-retirement, so it was a relatively short track record.

We ended up with a 3% fixed rate on 15 years, so I doubt we'll want to refinance, but I can see wanting an HELOC at some point. It was a handy way to smooth out major bumps such as a car purchase here and there. Starting in January, I'm going to leave a standing order with the brokerage to just send us a nice, even $X per month so we can make the bank happy if we want to borrow again.

Each Jan I move a year's worth of income from the brokerage into a high yield savings account, then have a monthly deposit made to our bank checking account. I wonder if this would be sufficient. Unfortunately, I reduce it some months when our expenses aren't that high. Maybe I should leave it perfectly steady, then just send back the excess funds at the end of the month.

I wonder if it matters whether it comes from the brokerage or some other financial institution?
 
Each Jan I move a year's worth of income from the brokerage into a high yield savings account, then have a monthly deposit made to our bank checking account. I wonder if this would be sufficient.
I'm guessing not.
1. That account doesn't have enough money to sustain 3 years worth of withdrawals.
2. It's a little bit too transparent. Even though financially withdrawing money from a brokerage account is equivalent whether done in one lump sum (which is then broken down into monthly sums) or simply monthly sums --- it looks different to them.
3. Even though you are doing it legit, fraudsters could do the same thing, just shuffling the same money back and forth between saving & checking accounts. Even cycle it through 4 or 5 accounts to further obscure the facts. Pretty soon there would be 99 people playing this money-float game for every 1 person like yourself doing it legit. The only way a bank can be sure that you aren't playing this game is to look at just one account --- like a brokerage account with a 6 or 7 digit sum.

I wonder if it matters whether it comes from the brokerage or some other financial institution?
From what I was told, they are looking for a balance in some mainstream financial institution, like stock broker or insurance company or bank, and a 2-3 month history of steady paycheck-like withdrawals and/or a written letter (and confirmation) of instruction for that institution to send you $X/mo.
My broker, one a year they send me a letter saying "This confirms your instructions to send you $X/mo from your account. Unless you direct otherwise, we will continue doing so."

Lenders understand employment and regular paychecks. Your typical loan processor & bank manager & loan underwriter have lots of personal experience with weekly paychecks, and ZERO experience with having a $2,000,000 brokerage account and "paying" yourself whatever you want whenever you want.

The closer your finances look like what they are familiar with and accustomed to, the more favorably they'll look at your loan application. If you want the loan, you need to make them comfortable. And you need to avoid looking to them to be fast-shuffling money around. They got scammed big-time by people with things like stated-income loans, and they don't want to repeat that. If they relax their vigilance, con-men will take advantage of them.

FWIW: On one refi, the bank wouldn't accept a 6 digit balance in a regular brokerage account, but they would accept a (smaller) 6 digit balance in a brokerage IRA. That made no sense, so I asked why. The explanation was "You could take all your money out of the (regular) account the day after the loan closes, and then how would you make the payments?" I pointed out that I could take all the money out of the IRA account, too.
Their response, "That's different. One account is for retirement and the other isn't."

A 6-7 digit account is so far out of their ken that you might as well be discussing the finer points of ancient Crete Linear-B. Give them the info they want in the form that they want. They have the gold, so they make the rules.
 
Well, I was wondering whether the monthly steady transfer from one bank to another would be enough.

I may have to rethink this, although our annual income as reported to the IRS is substantial and has been for many years.

We're not planning on a loan or mortgage any time soon - but you never know.....

Probably not worth the hassle. I manage cash flow to get the best rate I can on short term funds while we use them up. The brokerage doesn't offer 1% rates on their money market funds.
 
We only wanted a small HELOC to use for emergency fund. When the bank learned that, they said we could have a LOC for that amount. We said fine.

I wouldn't be happy with that as an alternative. The interest rate would be lower on the HELOC since it's secured by the equity in your house. Interest on the HELOC is also tax-deductible (with some restrictions).

We're going to be signing the paperwork to have a consistent amount deposited monthly from the brokerage account to my checking account starting January 1, which should smooth the way for future credit applications.
 
If any credit card company required a copy of my tax return before they would issue me a credit card, I would not be getting a card from them. A mortgage is a different story, but no way Im doing that for a credit card.
 
I got denied Capitalone MasterCard in Canada while I could get Amex, but this is because I moved to Canada recently and I have no credit history here. I have 800+ FICO score in the U.S. but that evidently does not matter. BTW my credit limit on my AMEX is $2000 so I am too afraid to use it. I have bank accounts I opened at TD Bank before my move and I acquired a credit card then and they just raised my limit from $1000 to $5000 so I do use that one. I have a US Capitalone Venture card also ($18K limit or something like that) and I will have to keep that until I establish credit here. Just out of curiosity I checked my credit score in Canada (with the first month free deal) and its in the mid 600's so far. I have had credit in this country for 11 months. I think I need about two more years.


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Well, I was wondering whether the monthly steady transfer from one bank to another would be enough.

The banks said no for us and the credit unions said yes. One CU didn't even need the transfers. They just took a look at our balances to make sure we had enough to withdraw three years of living expenses, including any mortgage or HELOC payments.
 

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