Any Retirees in New Hampshire or New England Area?

[KingOfTheCheapos]

interesting thoughts on the best state to work in vs retire in.

But I think the best state to work in, is the one that gives you the best job? That's why CA is so popular, high tax state but lots of great opportunities and in some cases (i.e. High Tech) unique opportunities.

Those rates look about right to me. My town is pretty good being under 1.8%.

I think the real benefit tax wise for NH is during your working years, not the retirement years.
We have lived here for 33 years now and grew up in MA.
As an example. Couple working, doing pretty good and has an income of $200k/year.


MA: income tax(5%) 10,000, spend 20k on things that are sales taxable(6.25%) = 1250 and a 400k home at .8% =3200
total tax burden=$14700
NH income tax =0, sales tax =0, property tax at 2.3%=$9200
advantage nh by $5500/yr
Now retired at 60, manage your income to $50k/yr and buying taxable items drops to $5000
MA: 50kx.05 +5k x.0625 +3200 re taxes=6012.5
NH: 50k x 0 +5k x0 +9200 =$9200
Advantage MA by $3188/yr

So if you are going purely by the numbers you would actually be better off to live and work in NH and retire to MA than the other way around as people seem to think they should do to escape the "Taxachusetts" dilemma.
I also realize this is but one of infinite scenarios and the numbers could possibly work out very differently depending on which town one lives in either state or the household income etc.
Just wanted to pint this out and as someone said earlier "don't let the tax tail wag the dog" or something like that.
We love where we live and have no plans to leave for any potential total tax savings which would be minimal in the grand scheme of our finances and overall happiness.

 

[finnski1]

interesting thoughts on the best state to work in vs retire in.

But I think the best state to work in, is the one that gives you the best job? That's why CA is so popular, high tax state but lots of great opportunities and in some cases (i.e. High Tech) unique opportunities.

Just making a reply to the post about the property tax rate difference between MA and NH and how it might play out. Of course your right about the best job but this pertains more to me to be about where to retire to. Perhaps I got that wrong?

 

[doneat54]

MA:..... and a 400k home at .8% =3200

You would be hard pressed to find a home anywhere in MA with that kind of tax rate/bill.

 

[finnski1]

You would be hard pressed to find a home anywhere in MA with that kind of tax rate/bill.

Could be. I was just going by the rate that someone else from MA posted?
Now that I just looked I found that the median rate in MA is 1.527%
The median in NH is 2.18%. Certainly not the 3x times that was posted. However on a town by town basis I'm sure one can find 3x or more differences.
So in this case a 400k house in MA would be $6108 and in nh it would be $8720

 

[doneat54]

Could be. I was just going by the rate that someone else from MA posted?
Now that I just looked I found that the median rate in MA is 1.527%
The median in NH is 2.18%. Certainly not the 3x times that was posted. However on a town by town basis I'm sure one can find 3x or more differences.
So in this case a 400k house in MA would be $6108 and in nh it would be $8720

But you can't go by just the rate. Some states do stupid things with the assessed value over and/or sometimes under valuating. Our tax bill in MA is approaching $11k, and in NH at the second home $7800. Given the valuations of each, the tax rate is roughly the same.

 

[zinger1457]

Could be. I was just going by the rate that someone else from MA posted?
Now that I just looked I found that the median rate in MA is 1.527%
The median in NH is 2.18%. Certainly not the 3x times that was posted. However on a town by town basis I'm sure one can find 3x or more differences.
So in this case a 400k house in MA would be $6108 and in nh it would be $8720

If you were referring to my post I did state that I grew up in MA but I haven't lived there in ~40 years, the .8% rate is based on where I live in AZ. Have family that still lives in MA and their rate is much higher than that.

 

[friar1610]

Those rates look about right to me. My town is pretty good being under 1.8%.

I think the real benefit tax wise for NH is during your working years, not the retirement years.
We have lived here for 33 years now and grew up in MA.
As an example. Couple working, doing pretty good and has an income of $200k/year.


MA: income tax(5%) 10,000, spend 20k on things that are sales taxable(6.25%) = 1250 and a 400k home at .8% =3200
total tax burden=$14700
NH income tax =0, sales tax =0, property tax at 2.3%=$9200
advantage nh by $5500/yr
Now retired at 60, manage your income to $50k/yr and buying taxable items drops to $5000
MA: 50kx.05 +5k x.0625 +3200 re taxes=6012.5
NH: 50k x 0 +5k x0 +9200 =$9200
Advantage MA by $3188/yr

So if you are going purely by the numbers you would actually be better off to live and work in NH and retire to MA than the other way around as people seem to think they should do to escape the "Taxachusetts" dilemma.
I also realize this is but one of infinite scenarios and the numbers could possibly work out very differently depending on which town one lives in either state or the household income etc.
Just wanted to pint this out and as someone said earlier "don't let the tax tail wag the dog" or something like that.
We love where we live and have no plans to leave for any potential total tax savings which would be minimal in the grand scheme of our finances and overall happiness.

We’ve lived in MA for 8 years after living in VT, also for 8. When we decided to move we considered both Southern Maine and NH as well as MA but taxes were not really part of the decision. Because MA doesn’t tax our primary income streams (federal/military pension and SS) we’re probably as well off here as anywhere in New England. I understand that not everyone has our particular circumstances, so that won’t be true for everyone.

 

[finnski1]

If you were referring to my post I did state that I grew up in MA but I haven't lived there in ~40 years, the .8% rate is based on where I live in AZ. Have family that still lives in MA and their rate is much higher than that.

Yes I was referring to your post. I misunderstood that you were comparing AZ to NH and not MA to NH.

 

[finnski1]

But you can't go by just the rate. Some states do stupid things with the assessed value over and/or sometimes under valuating. Our tax bill in MA is approaching $11k, and in NH at the second home $7800. Given the valuations of each, the tax rate is roughly the same.

Well you aren't really comparing apples to apples then are you.
If I have a house in MA and it is assessed by the town at $400k and the tax rate is $15.27/$1000 then your tax bill is $6180 as I stated.
If I have a house in NH that is assessed by the town at $400k and the tax rate is $21.80/$1000 then your tax bill is $8720.
If you just happen to live in towns in MA and NH that have the same or very nearly the same rate then of course. I was going by the median state to state numbers I found which show the median to be 43% higher in NH.
Certainly you have to go on a case by case basis and town to town and not the median for your own individual situation. So on balance or on average if you will it is certain that property tax rates(not necessarily total taxes) are higher in NH.
And I do agree that many towns do play strange games with assessments but again you have to compare them on an individual basis.

 

[finnski1]

We’ve lived in MA for 8 years after living in VT, also for 8. When we decided to move we considered both Southern Maine and NH as well as MA but taxes were not really part of the decision. Because MA doesn’t tax our primary income streams (federal/military pension and SS) we’re probably as well off here as anywhere in New England. I understand that not everyone has our particular circumstances, so that won’t be true for everyone.

I agree that taxes shouldn't necessarily sway a decision. We are staying in NH because we love where we live.

 

[finnski1]

You would be hard pressed to find a home anywhere in MA with that kind of tax rate/bill.

When I posted earlier I thought I was responding to the poster about a MA rate. Turns out he lives in AZ and that is his rate.
Anywhere within an hour of Boston I'm sure you're right. However I certainly can find some especially in central MA ,where I grew up, with a tax bill like that. Now whether you or I would want to live in them is a different story.

 

[figuy1]

If you're completely indifferent to which parts of the country as long as it has low humidity/heat and just want to reduce taxes/expenses, I'd consider some other parts of the country like Portland suburbs in WA like Vancouver (no income tax and no state tax across the OR state line), Reno, NV (no income tax and low property taxes), or southern Appalachian mountains cities such as Chattanooga aren't so muggy in Oct-May and come with no income taxes, low property taxes, low state taxes across the border in GA.

UT and CO have fairly low overall combined taxes (income+sales+property), just avoid some of the more expensive areas like Denver. Parts of CO can get up to 300 days of sunshine per year. If you're willing to just live in an area 6-7 months a year to get the tax savings and live elsewhere in the winter, you have a lot of options in the cheaper areas of the northern Rockies that have lower taxes/COL but may have brutal winters.

Another option is second home areas in the Midwest and noncoastal south, which usually have low property taxes (<$2k/year) since so many people aren't using the schools and other services most of the year. In the lake house towns, you can get decent houses just one block off the water for $200-300k. Obviously, if you're trying to avoid the humidity/heat, you'd want to travel elsewhere in the summer in the warmer spots.

If you're married filing jointly, a handful of states with low cost of living but have income taxes have high $25k standard deductions (AZ, NM, CO, ID, MO, ME, SC, AL) so you're only paying taxes on a portion of your income and you might not need $100k/year to live on. For instance, if it all was in your taxable account and half of it was from untaxed capital gains, you'd only have an AGI of about $50k living on $100k/year budget. If you're in a state with a 5% income tax rate and a $25k MFJ standard deduction, your income tax bill would only be about $1250/year or only effectively 1.25% of your spending budget.

At the end of the day, don't always let the tax tail wag the dog, cost of living differences may way outweigh tax differences from state to state.

 

[BoldPelikan]

Monadnock Region - SW NH

We own a lakeside house in this area. About 15 minutes to MA border and 40 minutes to Brattleboro VT. 1600' square feet, 1.5 baths, 2 beds, unfinished basement, oil furnace, woodstove, septic and a well. House value according to Zillow and Trulia has gone nuts lately with estimates around $320k. Appraised value is $200k and annual property taxes are about $5800. Winters are brutal and the town doesn't maintain our road, so we need to have a neighbor help with plowing. We live fulltime in Ohio and are happy to have natural gas heat, city plows, garbage and recycling pickup, a sewer system and city water, mail delivery, high speed internet and access to world-class medical care. NH from May to November is generally lovely, except for late mud seasons, black flies in May, tourists in summer, and early snows that knock out the power. I'm not trying to be negative - we still love it there and hate the thought of selling the house - but it's a tough place to age in and there are many conveniences found in other parts of the country that are not available in some areas.

 

[indiajust]

The microcosm of living here in NH is that the politics and taxes vary by the inch. There are towns that are red, others that are blue. With about about 500 jurisdictions, every 5-10 minutes of drive time you cross into a different tribe of elites. Choose your town/tribe carefully or you will be shunned forever.

Restaurant taxes finally got cut this session, and Interest and Dividend tax will be phased out! Most importantly, education freedom accounts passed. Property taxes are ruinous here because spending on government K12 went to the moon. My apartment rent is more than half property tax.

Most New Englanders hate people moving here and make permits and new construction difficult to impossible. Very broadly speaking, about a quarter of buildable lots have been permanently removed from the market over the past 40 years. With a continuous decline in supply, existing lot prices go up regardless of condition or location.

An example from nearby South Burlington VT perfectly captures natives attitudes: They passed a law to prevent the water department from ever adding another water or sewer connection, and made well/septic in-town illegal. GO AWAY might be the new town motto!

I call NH the best house in a really bad neighborhood. Competing with boomers for the last lakefront house on the east coast is the road to ruin. Further north you go, the better your odds.

Ticks and black flies are a bloody nuisance. I am at 60 ticks so far this season. I got Lyme disease within 2 months of moving.

There are property tax exemptions for fixed income pensioners, so government folks will have an easier time here than the IRA/401k/annuity folks like me.

 

[RetMD21]

At the end of the day, don't always let the tax tail wag the dog, cost of living differences may way outweigh tax differences from state to state.

Good point, a low property tax rate can be deceptive if you don't look at house values.

Delaware has low taxes for region but I don't know anything about living there. This thread has helped me cross NH off my list

 

[doneat54]

The microcosm of living here in NH is that the politics and taxes vary by the inch. There are towns that are red, others that are blue. With about about 500 jurisdictions, every 5-10 minutes of drive time you cross into a different tribe of elites. Choose your town/tribe carefully or you will be shunned forever.

Restaurant taxes finally got cut this session, and Interest and Dividend tax will be phased out! Most importantly, education freedom accounts passed. Property taxes are ruinous here because spending on government K12 went to the moon. My apartment rent is more than half property tax.

Most New Englanders hate people moving here and make permits and new construction difficult to impossible. Very broadly speaking, about a quarter of buildable lots have been permanently removed from the market over the past 40 years. With a continuous decline in supply, existing lot prices go up regardless of condition or location.

An example from nearby South Burlington VT perfectly captures natives attitudes: They passed a law to prevent the water department from ever adding another water or sewer connection, and made well/septic in-town illegal. GO AWAY might be the new town motto!

I call NH the best house in a really bad neighborhood. Competing with boomers for the last lakefront house on the east coast is the road to ruin. Further north you go, the better your odds.

Ticks and black flies are a bloody nuisance. I am at 60 ticks so far this season. I got Lyme disease within 2 months of moving.

There are property tax exemptions for fixed income pensioners, so government folks will have an easier time here than the IRA/401k/annuity folks like me.

Wow! You are just one happy NH resident, aren't you!!??


Wonder if you can provide references for:

"Restaurant taxes finally got cut this session"

"South Burlington VT passed a law to prevent the water department from ever adding another water or sewer connection"

Title and chapter would be great, thanks.

Also, ticks apparently cross the state line, as we have them aplenty in MA as well.


I drive a lot in NH and have not see these "tribe" jurisdiction allotments of which you spake. Is the 5-10mins of drive time at a specific speed? Are signs noting such tribal boundaries? Google Maps?


FYI, my recent (waterfront) building permit got approved (without DES involvement) in 2 days. I must be special.

 

[Retired Expat]

Not sure where you live the rest of the year but mostly moving to a state with no income tax works out the same as paying income tax as the state and town still need revenue. That said, even if it does save you money, how much are you talking about? What other things will add to your cost of living?

We really thought about buying there or in Maine but we travel a lot and just difficult and much more expensive if we can’t drive to a major airport. And we can still drive to NH or Delaware if doing major purchases, which we do once every 8 years!

 

[meleana]

I'm exploring the idea of spending May to Nov in New Hampshire and use it as my tax-basis (no sales tax, no taxes on pensions, SS).

Are there any retirees out there in NH who can comment on how its like to live there? In particular I'm concerned whether it's possible to just "shut down" the home during the winter (shut off water at mains, don't heat home etc.) in October.

I'm also curious about the weather and in particular humidity from May to November.

I'd also like some suggestions on towns to live? I understand NH gets taxes mainly from property tax so great places like Hanover are too expensive. I'm looking at a property under $400K.

We retired to NH from a rural area of NY last February, 2020. We chose the Lakes Region mainly because there was a small community there that was like a 55+ but not age restricted (nothing like it in New England), had a choice of a new construction one level cottage that was affordable (listed at $249,000 and we ended up paying $ 274,000 with the so called “extras”), can walk to the big lake, central to most everywhere- 12 miles to I 93. Restaurants, activities, medical care, cultural and music events, theaters- movie and drive in - and live plays - plenty of grocery stores, and a Walmart and Lowes, banks, country stores and dept. stores 4 miles away, yes- all close by.

We are technically in Laconia so we have municipal water and sewer and fire and police dept. services right near us. We can also walk to the post office.

We have underground utilities but we put in a generator just in case. But everyone says power outages are rare here. So far we only lost it once for an hour and a half.

Yeah- it’s a modest cookie cutter house where we could hold hands with the neighbors from our windows. But the HOA fee is $150 per month and we have a nice pool and clubhouse, they fertilize and mow the tiny lots and put mulch around our bushes.

They plow our private road, but not our tiny driveways - no big deal. Trash pick up also included.

Our lot actually belongs to the HOA but we paid just $100 at closing for the 99 year lease and it renews with no further fee perpetually every 99 years. A rarity!

Negatives? Well we are in the Weirs, which gets a lot of summer and fall tourists. We are in the heart of Laconia Bike week. Noisy. Fire works. Roaring engines. Campers.

Weirs beach is overrun with out of towners. If you had told me years ago I would be living in the Weirs I would have told you you were crazy as I did not like the kitchy, honky tonk vibe of it. We lived on a lot of acreage in the woods all our lives, so that’s what we were used to.

But we love being near multiple gorgeous lakes. Me for swimming and hubby for fishing. We have a generous neighbor who takes us out on his boat occasionally.

We are near tons of hiking trails. The mountains are nearby. 4 season activities.

Anyway, housing is so crazy expensive in NH and when we were looking and would find something affordable, it needed work !
After spending the prior 7 years updating our former home no way did we want to retire in our 60’s and have to start all over again.

So here we are and we are pretty happy with it, though not perfect. Our only child lives and works nearby and we have made lots of friends. We feel like we are on vacation most of the time.

So- to your questions. Plenty of snowbirds in our neighborhood and yes you can winterize your home and leave. We never leave our home in winter for vacations. We don’t like the idea - too many things can go wrong. We are full timers in NH. But like I said, we feel like we are on vacation all the time.

The weather is surprisingly warmer here than you think. A bit cooler in the Whites, which also get more snow the farther north you go. Humidity is not bad, though today we are experiencing a high degree of it. Here above the lake and with Paugus Bay behind us we are in like a wind tunnel- very windy a lot of the time. Spring and Fall are glorious here. I love all the seasons.

I will tell you inventory is extremely low right now in NH. I would think you could find something maybe just under or at $400,000, but it depends where you go. What are you looking for in the area you plan to live in? What are your must haves in a home and community?

We knew we could not age in a secluded situation like we came from, though we love that lifestyle. So that is why we did a complete switch to community living. Here people look out for each other more or less. We had no neighbors where we used to live.

So if you tell me exactly what lifestyle you are looking for maybe I can give you suggestions on towns. Some towns have higher property taxes than others. Ours runs close to $5000 for a new 1100 square foot home. Structure only.

 

[meleana]

DS lives in NH and we are not far from NH in Vermont... in fact, the nearest HD, Lowe's, Walmart, etc are in NH.

My mom has a three-season home that we do not heat in the winter. I disconnect the water, blow out all the pipes with a shop vac and fill the toilets and traps with RV antifreeze and turn off the power.

We keep our house going year-round. In the winter we set the thermostats at 55F and turn off the water and open the faucets to relieve the pressure. For the six months that we are gone, between propane for heat, plowing the driveway so the propane truck can deliver and electricity is ~$1,500-$2,000 a year, but it would probably cost me something to winterize the place and $200 or so just to keep the electricity on so I would not save all of that $1,500-$2,000 a year.

I'm not keen on leaving the building unheated and keeping it at 55F gives us the ability to use it on short notice if for some reason we need to go home for family emergencies or a quick ski trip. While we haven't done either of those we have returned for a week or so for the Christmas holidays.

You still need someone to make a path to the tanks or plow the driveway for the propane deliveries.

 

[pb4uski]

We have a guy that plows the driveway.... the propane guy just trudges through the snow the ~30' form where the plow stops to the propane tank... DS was supposed to clear the path but never did it.

 

[meleana]

Not trying to influence you for or against NH. Just want to point out that NH taxes interest and dividend income at 5% although there is an exemption of some amount - don’t recall how much. So, if a significant amount of your income comes from interest and/or dividends, you might want to plug that into your computations.

Excellent budget just passed in NH will be gradually eliminating that tax starting in the fiscal year 2022.

Also, some nice property tax reductions in the budget as well.

 

[meleana]

Those rates look about right to me. My town is pretty good being under 1.8%.

I think the real benefit tax wise for NH is during your working years, not the retirement years.
We have lived here for 33 years now and grew up in MA.
As an example. Couple working, doing pretty good and has an income of $200k/year.


MA: income tax(5%) 10,000, spend 20k on things that are sales taxable(6.25%) = 1250 and a 400k home at .8% =3200
total tax burden=$14700
NH income tax =0, sales tax =0, property tax at 2.3%=$9200
advantage nh by $5500/yr
Now retired at 60, manage your income to $50k/yr and buying taxable items drops to $5000
MA: 50kx.05 +5k x.0625 +3200 re taxes=6012.5
NH: 50k x 0 +5k x0 +9200 =$9200
Advantage MA by $3188/yr

So if you are going purely by the numbers you would actually be better off to live and work in NH and retire to MA than the other way around as people seem to think they should do to escape the "Taxachusetts" dilemma.
I also realize this is but one of infinite scenarios and the numbers could possibly work out very differently depending on which town one lives in either state or the household income etc.
Just wanted to pint this out and as someone said earlier "don't let the tax tail wag the dog" or something like that.
We love where we live and have no plans to leave for any potential total tax savings which would be minimal in the grand scheme of our finances and overall happiness.

I believe after being a resident for 3 years seniors in NH get some kind of property tax break.

 

[friar1610]

Excellent budget just passed in NH will be gradually eliminating that tax starting in the fiscal year 2022.

Also, some nice property tax reductions in the budget as well.

Had not heard that - good to know.

 

[albireo13]

I am a long time NH resident and just retired last year. We just bought our lifer home 2 yrs ago in a great town (think alien abduction) near the seacoast ... 7 miles from ocean.
3 miles from a cute downtown on a river. Lots to do, close to Maine and Portsmouth, and Ma.
We drive in to Boston occasionally to see the kids or see other things or drive up to Maine for great beaches, biking, followed by lobster dinner.

Have always liked living in NH. Access to mountains, lakes, Maine, Vermont, etc.
We are still active and like the outdoors.

Property rates can be high and varies town to town. We pay >$11K/yr in taxes. However, we have fantastic location, town water, sewer, natural gas, garbage pickup, etc. We had factored taxes in to our burn rate for living expenses when planning for retirement so, not a deal breaker. We feel fortunate that we can afford to live where we really like to live. Beyond property taxes, I feel the cost of living is pretty nice.
If one wants to minimize their total cost of living, there are likely better options. However, at this stage in my life it is the best money spent!

 

[shotgunner]

Excellent budget just passed in NH will be gradually eliminating that tax starting in the fiscal year 2022.

Also, some nice property tax reductions in the budget as well.

I am pretty sure I read the budget just passed includes phasing out the Interest & Dividend Tax over five years, with a 1% drop each year from the current 5% starting in 2023 with the tax being eliminated in 2027. I would not hold my breath waiting for it to happen although it will be nice if it does, should the current minority party take control in the next election (held very two years) this could be reversed before the first 1% reduction.

That $100M in property tax deductions is going to go to those homeowners with very little income. I have had a hard time finding precise details but believe I read it's only available to those making less than a certain percentage of the federal poverty level, 133% if I read it correctly.