Average gas price $6.20/gal by end of Summer

[NW-Bound]

The only really green transportation is your 2 legs.

Animals including humans are very efficient machines.

A 2000-calorie daily intake is 8.4 MJ. It's a 100W bulb lit 24 hours. It's 2.4 kWh, good for an EV to travel 7 miles.

And many people survive on less than 2000 calories/day. Particularly, if you "lie flat".

 

[Car-Guy]

The only really green transportation is your 2 legs.

Animals including humans are very efficient machines.

Well, there are those that may disagree with you especially when it comes to cows being efficient "green" transportation machines.

 

[NW-Bound]

Well, there are those that may disagree with you especially when it comes to cows being efficient "green" transportation machines.

Ah, talking about cow, manure is a very good amendment to add humus to soil for planting.

The same organic matter, meaning grass, is nowhere as good for the soil as it is after going through the animal digestive tract.

Cows are green. Hurrah!

 

[Out of Steam]

Animals including humans are very efficient machines.

A 2000-calorie daily intake is 8.4 MJ. It's a 100W bulb lit 24 hours. It's 2.4 kWh, good for an EV to travel 7 miles.

Walked, that 7 miles is a decent day of activity for a healthy person, though I've never sustained more than 5 miles as a daily average.

 

[Car-Guy]

Its more the ability for everyone to charge on a city block at the same time.
Insufficient elect. generation, 3rd world strip mining, batt. waste disposal etc. actual EV environmental issues being ignored. People don't seem to know where electricity even comes from. And in the end, how much will it actually change anything. Big picture wise. Parts of the media seems to be heavily $$$ invested in it. As its being sold as green transportation. And that could not be further from the truth.

IMO, and as I've said a million times (even a couple of times on this forum) that I think pushing EV's for the sake of a green agenda is just wrong. Are EV's more green than ICE, "big picture wise", I just don't know. However, I do believe EV's or some other form(s) of individual and mass transportation will be needed in the future and starting the development of that now makes sense to me. (Let's remember Tesla was founded almost 20 years ago and their first cars hit the road some 12 to 13 years ago.) IIRC

There is only between 40 to 50 years of oil left in the ground at present rates of consumption. That's really not very long, big picture wise. And that last 10 to 15 years of oil will get really expensive and not just in $$. It's not going to be such a problem for me/us, but it will be for our kids and grand kids (bigtime). So we don't want to wait (wake up) until it's almost all gone before doing something about it. Especially since oil is needed for lot of other things in our world and it needs to be conserved for that at some point. (needs to be stretched for 100's of years) So hopefully enough EV's will be on the road (along with the requisite infrastructure) in 15+ years to significantly slow oil consumption rates for the sake of other long term needs becasue I think by then, if nothing has been done, it will become obvious. Seems to me everyone (well most) could understand that and get behind the need without so much politics and division... (Rant off!)

 

[Out of Steam]

IMO, and as I've said a million times (even a couple of times on this forum) that I think pushing EV's for the sake of a green agenda is just wrong. Are EV's more green than ICE, "big picture wise", I just don't know. However, I do believe EV's or some other form(s) of individual and mass transportation will be needed in the future and starting the development of that now makes sense to me.

I have the contrarian view that EVs are being pushed because it's too hard for manufacturers to make money on gasoline and diesel-powered vehicles while meeting the fuel economy, crash safety, and emissions expectations of developed countries. The case is compelling enough for carmakers to decide not to resist the trend through politics and lobbying, and for them to pull away from 75 years of close partnership with the oil industry.

Complexity of gasoline and diesel-powered vehicles has gotten out of hand, and trends in battery capability will make EVs more profitable (and capable enough) in the timeframes of normal auto industry R&D (5-15 years).

Except for Tesla's Supercharger infrastructure, they'll make electric infrastructure for charging someone else's problem.

 

[almost there]

With current tech. for EV's to work, they would need to standardize batteries. And allow them to be swapped out at "gas" stations. Could get to the point where it would only take a few minutes. But as mentioned, we are not there yet. Also, cars are only a tiny part of the problem. Even though folks think they are saving the planet. The single word "China", makes all of this completely irreverent. At this time.

 

[aja8888]

With current tech. for EV's to work, they would need to standardize batteries. And allow them to be swapped out at "gas" stations. Could get to the point where it would only take a few minutes. But as mentioned, we are not there yet. Also, cars are only a tiny part of the problem. Even though folks think they are saving the planet. The single word "China", makes all of this completely irreverent. At this time.

It would do you some good to do some research on what it would take to "swap out" an EV battery that weighs over a ton and is connected to a liquid cooling system, an inverter and electrical interface, a charge system of wiring, and a sub frame to hold all this in place.

Plus, EV ownership includes a very expensive battery with a warranty of which the manufacturer would not warranty if a strange battery were to be installed in the car.

And from a liability standpoint, if some grease monkey swapped out a battery and the car burned up shortly afterwards, who would be at fault? These batteries are known time bombs and should be handled with care!

 

[teejayevans]

IMO
There is only between 40 to 50 years of oil left in the ground at present rates of consumption. That's really not very long, big picture wise

That’s from 1999 American Petroleum Institute, other newer estimates are 3X that, I doubt I’ll ever buy an electric car (no garage, need to be able to drive 1000 miles in a day).

 

[NW-Bound]

With current tech. for EV's to work, they would need to standardize batteries...

The batteries of different EVs never look at all alike, not even from different EV models of the same maker.

And car makers are now further moving towards making the battery an integral part of the car chassis, in order to reduce weight, and improve the rigidity of the frame. No way they can agree on a common physical format of batteries for all cars.

It would be like requiring Ford and GM ICE cars to have interchangeable engines and transmissions.

Come to think of it, because I look at cars as a commodity instead of an object of love, I don't mind a universal design of cars, so that every part is interchangeable, from battery to motors to doors and fenders.

Yes, all makes will look the same. The pricing difference will be based on reputation of reliability. If the door of my ABC car is rusted out, I will swear I will never buy another ABC car, but for now will swap in a better door from maker XYZ.

Crazy idea?

 

[REWahoo]

The batteries of different EVs never look at all alike, not even from different EV models of the same maker

That's apparently not going to be true for too much longer - at least not according to VW:

On Tuesday, Volkswagen Group revealed its new strategy for the coming decade. Under the tagline "New Auto," VW Group CEO Herbert Diess laid out how the company plans to increase profitability and streamline its operations by introducing a single battery electric vehicle (BEV) platform across all the group's brands.

This means the same BEV platform for a dozen brands, including Volkswagen, Audi, Bugatti, Bentley, Lamborghini, Ducati, and Porsche..

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/0...n-a-single-ev-platform-across-all-its-brands/

 

[NW-Bound]

That's apparently not going to be true for too much longer - at least not according to VW:

This means the same BEV platform for a dozen brands, including Volkswagen, Audi, Bugatti, Bentley, Lamborghini, Ducati, and Porsche..

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/0...n-a-single-ev-platform-across-all-its-brands/

I don't know what they mean by "platform". You cannot have one size of battery to fit a small 2-door car as well as a large 4-door sedan, or an SUV.

Well, you can, but an SUV with a bitty battery will have a range of 100 miles.

Diess says that SSP will scale for vehicles from 85 to 850 kW (114 to 1,140 hp)—everything from small city cars to supercars

Perhaps the battery for bigger vehicles will be built by stacking up more cell layers.

Kind of like building a triple-meat burger using the same beef patty as the single-meat version?

 

[CRLLS]

2nd time I've been out in a week, and each time the price was lower than before.

I have seen the same thing. My local station was 5.95 last week, then it went to 5.77, then 5.70, I just bought gas there today @ 5.66 (.9). Oil has dropped. I'm surprised that the gas price there has dropped so quickly. I am still not happy with 5.66/gal but I'll take what I can get.

 

[Car-Guy]

That’s from 1999 American Petroleum Institute, other newer estimates are 3X that, I doubt I’ll ever buy an electric car (no garage, need to be able to drive 1000 miles in a day).

Hope you are right.... I got my data from the link below and I have seen similar quotes from many other sources, but I'm sure you can find whatever you want on the internet. Wish I had a dip stick to check.


https://www.worldometers.info/oil/

 

[NW-Bound]

Walked, that 7 miles is a decent day of activity for a healthy person, though I've never sustained more than 5 miles as a daily average.

Compared to a single-tasking machine, a human may not look that efficient. Burning the same energy, he will not outrun a wheeled machine, or outlift a hydraulic jack.

But as a universal and versatile machine, what a human can do on 2.4 kWh/day is amazing, and it will take a long time before a robot can be built that matches him in terms of locomotion, let alone intelligence.

Boston Dynamics is the premier maker of robots. See its robot below.

They made a robotic pack mule to help transport equipment for soldiers across rough terrain. The project failed because the hydraulic actuators of the mule made too much noise for use in the battlefield.

What I am curious and have not been able to find out is how long the two-legged robot and the pack mule could operate on their self-contained power packs. I suspect that the run time would not be all that long, perhaps 1 or 2 hours.

 

[Koolau]

Ah, talking about cow, manure is a very good amendment to add humus to soil for planting.

The same organic matter, meaning grass, is nowhere as good for the soil as it is after going through the animal digestive tract.

Cows are green. Hurrah!

Not so fast! Cows (and other ruminants) produce about 37% of the methane that man's activities add to the atmosphere. Methane is a more efficient greenhouse gas even the CO2. YMMV

 

[NW-Bound]

Not so fast! Cows (and other ruminants) produce about 37% of the methane that man's activities add to the atmosphere. Methane is a more efficient greenhouse gas even the CO2. YMMV

I don't know about other ruminants, but here's an excerpt from an article in the Journal of Animal Science. It says 2%.

Increasing atmospheric concentrations of methane have led scientists to examine its sources of origin. Ruminant livestock can produce 250 to 500 L of methane per day. This level of production results in estimates of the contribution by cattle to global warming that may occur in the next 50 to 100 yr to be a little less than 2%.

I will say that these animals' methane production is part of the "green" cycle. They are returning some of the carbon they ingest back to grow more grass. Hence, they are of course "green".

 

[audreyh1]

With current tech. for EV's to work, they would need to standardize batteries. And allow them to be swapped out at "gas" stations. Could get to the point where it would only take a few minutes. But as mentioned, we are not there yet. Also, cars are only a tiny part of the problem. Even though folks think they are saving the planet. The single word "China", makes all of this completely irreverent. At this time.

No battery swapping needed.

 

[Badger]

The batteries of different EVs never look at all alike, not even from different EV models of the same maker.

And car makers are now further moving towards making the battery an integral part of the car chassis, in order to reduce weight, and improve the rigidity of the frame. No way they can agree on a common physical format of batteries for all cars.

It would be like requiring Ford and GM ICE cars to have interchangeable engines and transmissions.

Come to think of it, because I look at cars as a commodity instead of an object of love, I don't mind a universal design of cars, so that every part is interchangeable, from battery to motors to doors and fenders.

Yes, all makes will look the same. The pricing difference will be based on reputation of reliability. If the door of my ABC car is rusted out, I will swear I will never buy another ABC car, but for now will swap in a better door from maker XYZ.

Crazy idea?

VW kind of did something like this when they were building air-cooled vehicles although they did have different model designs. Other than the sheet metal many if not most of the mechanical and electrical components were either the same or just slightly modified. I drove those cars (beetle, Karmann Ghia, bus, Type III etc.) for many years until they went to water-cooled engines. Unfortunately people wanted more power and speed and the VW engine was also not able to meet the newer emission standards. But the concept of interchangeable parts was a good idea that helped them to be
a major player in the automotive industry.

Cheers!

 

[REWahoo]

VW kind of did something like this when they were building air-cooled vehicles although they did have different model designs.

And they are doing it again. See post #186 above.

 

[Music Lover]

I have the contrarian view that EVs are being pushed because it's too hard for manufacturers to make money on gasoline and diesel-powered vehicles while meeting the fuel economy, crash safety, and emissions expectations of developed countries. The case is compelling enough for carmakers to decide not to resist the trend through politics and lobbying, and for them to pull away from 75 years of close partnership with the oil industry.

Complexity of gasoline and diesel-powered vehicles has gotten out of hand, and trends in battery capability will make EVs more profitable (and capable enough) in the timeframes of normal auto industry R&D (5-15 years).

Except for Tesla's Supercharger infrastructure, they'll make electric infrastructure for charging someone else's problem.

I don't think auto makers care whether the vehicles they sell run on gas or batteries. They're in the car selling business, not the oil industry. If they can make a profit that's all that matters.

 

[MRG]

No battery swapping needed.

+[emoji4]

 

[NW-Bound]

VW kind of did something like this when they were building air-cooled vehicles although they did have different model designs. Other than the sheet metal many if not most of the mechanical and electrical components were either the same or just slightly modified. I drove those cars (beetle, Karmann Ghia, bus, Type III etc.) for many years until they went to water-cooled engines. Unfortunately people wanted more power and speed and the VW engine was also not able to meet the newer emission standards. But the concept of interchangeable parts was a good idea that helped them to be
a major player in the automotive industry.

Cheers!

And they are doing it again. See post #186 above.

I was thinking of going beyond and have all makers build to the same design.

At least the battery part. It will make it easier to have aftermarket batteries to keep orphaned EVs running longer. Also easier to repurpose worn-out batteries for bulk electricity storage.

 

[REWahoo]

I was thinking of going beyond and have all makers build to the same design.

And you think it's tough locating your car in a big parking lot today...

 

[almost there]

No battery swapping needed.

Could you explain it to me?

(Today)
Average charge time is currently 8 hrs.
24 hrs if using 110v.

If anyone wants extended range, swapping like batteries on the road is a possible solution.

Personally, I see it as a solution to a problem that does not exist.
But if EV's were to be made main stream. What other options are there?
Aside from having to stop for 8 hrs every 250 miles?