Boomers preventing their own retirement?

DH and I allowed our daughter and a roommate to move back home for one year. She rented the downstairs finished daylight basement for $500 a month. The agreement was one year so she could save some money. I'm not sure she saved any money, but she did find a better paying job and got her life a bit more organized. When the second year rolled around we told her we were raising the rent - needless to say they moved out. What we found more interesting were the comments from co-workers and friends. They thought we were heartless and cold to charge our daughter rent - geez....she was 23 (DH & I had already bought my first house by then).
I admit to struggling with the desire to want to give her money or buy her some extras - I work hard to fight that urge :angel:
 
Our kids, we feel, do delay ER since we want to support their college education. It's one of the greatest rewards in life to see them graduate form college and then making contributions in society.
 
Last edited:
Boomerang kids are very common. I moved home with a preggers wife for a couple of months at age 25. Didn't seem to bother my folks much and didn't cost them much. My son moved back at our suggestion for two years at 27 and finished college. When the time was right we told him to hit the road. He lives about 5 blocks away in hs own home, is a joy to have around and very responsible. DD is a senior now and I wouldn't be surprised to see her pop back home in a couple of years if NYC doesn't work out well.

It doesn't have to be a cold no or an unrestricted gravy train. With common sense you can help out without major costs and without encouraging "failure to launch."
 
I see our friends who chose not to be parents as being as content and satisfied as we are (that's why they're our friends ;)). We sometimes exchange reflections about how nice it must be at times to have kids/not have kids and can share the joys and trade-offs of both decisions. But none of us regrets our choices.

Very fair-minded. Bravo!

At least one academic study [http://www.pop.upenn.edu/rc/parc/aging_center/1996/PARCwps96-02.pdf] suggests that the presence or absence of children does not significantly affect the happiness of men in their middle and later years. Although that study reported that childlessness might be important to women's emotional wellbeing, a more recent study by the same author reportedly says otherwise: Childless women fare as well psychologically as mothers at mid-life.
 
I am curious what people's attitudes are about family estate planning to avoid estate taxes.
Anyone with more than a couple million in assets is looking at massive estate taxes in the future. Let's say you have health care provided by an ex employer and a pension that covers all your living expenses, so you don't have to worry too much about cash.
If your kids are genuinely hard workers, and you trust them, wouldn't you start to transfer your assets to them? Would this be different than supporting them, meaning paying for a lifestyle that they can't afford themselves?
The heck with the kids, I'd rather plan my estate to ensure that my money goes to worthy charities rather than to governments with their hands out.

But if we're just talking about whether or not to give money to your kids, I like the Buffett approach: Give them enough so that they can do anything, but not so much that they can do nothing. I appreciated the fruits of my labors that much more for having labored over them.

I've been gifted money by my father and it's worked out fine. Spouse has been gifted money by her parents and it's been a nightmare. Never again. Next time any of our parents send checks our way we'll do something nice with their money for someone else and let them know that they should feel free to give it to their grandkid instead of to us.

I'm trying to come up with a nice way to let our parents know that-- if they haven't already-- they should include us out of their own estate planning.
 
Spouse has been gifted money by her parents and it's been a nightmare. Never again.

What happened? Were certain (explicit or implicit) conditions attached?
 
I am curious what people's attitudes are about family estate planning to avoid estate taxes.

Anyone with more than a couple million in assets is looking at massive estate taxes in the future. Let's say you have health care provided by an ex employer and a pension that covers all your living expenses, so you don't have to worry too much about cash.

If your kids are genuinely hard workers, and you trust them, wouldn't you start to transfer your assets to them? Would this be different than supporting them, meaning paying for a lifestyle that they can't afford themselves?
DW and I divided our assets so when one of us dies the total amount doesn't go into a single estate (e.g. she owns our primary residence, I own the weekend house). We then separately put our assets in trusts going to the kids with the surviving spouse able to use the funds for their own support. We also added so called bimbo clauses and rotten daughter and son-in-law clauses. The bimbo clauses would prevent the surviving spouse from giving everything away to the "bimbo" or "bimber?" and cutting out the kids. I'm not sure whether that clause is actually necessary with the trusts - but, whatever. The trusts are also structured such that the proceeds do not become part of the kids' marital estates if our kids are married or get married after we die. Thus, if they divorce, what they get from us stays with them.

DW's firm has some top-notch estate lawyers who set things up for us. I understood the terms at the time we set things up and they made sense to me. But I would have to re-read everything to fully describe it now. The topic makes my brain go numb.
 
I have two kids, and I already have started "money management" training, at the agesof 8 and 5.
 
If your kids are genuinely hard workers, and you trust them, wouldn't you start to transfer your assets to them? Would this be different than supporting them, meaning paying for a lifestyle that they can't afford themselves?

later in life, mom said she wanted to gift us so she could share our enjoyment of the extra cash but by then alzheimer's kicked in and so she kept forgetting and so we never received such gifts. upon assuming guardianship 5 years before the end, we enacted her iving will which stipulated that we were to take tax-free gifts yearly. most of that money i saved (and then retired early on) but also used some to update my house and i splurged some on a yellow vertible stang which my mother loved to go to lunch in.

my fiscal childhood was a combination of spoiled brat and house slave. i didn't just cut the lawn and take out the garbage; i also cleaned the pool and scrubbed the decks. a cleaning lady did the house but i did a lot of the cooking and cleaning up after dinner. i received a generous allowance and never felt lacking cash. as mom saved my young letters from camp, i am reminded that i was always asking for more money, for care packages or to send up some of my own things. so apparently when i wasn't doing their chores, they were doing mine. i guess i was born into a cooperative.

in fact, many of the chores i did and allowance received were contracted with signed papers. it was the business of family. my mother would have done anything for me, i was as lazy then as i am now, my biodad was completely uninvolved, my stepdad who arrived early in life had a family motto: "sh*t for yourself." so there were always some interesting dynamics in play and the contracts helped to spell things out for all of us.

at 18 i was shown the door (to college) and i was never invited back home. i worked summers and got student loans and my parents kicked in whenever i fell behind. i think they raised me with a good balance of growing independence and of aid when in need. i gained a sense confidence that comes from knowing that they would help if required.

my parents never retired but not from lack of money. i think the ol'man would have liked to quit but mom was a workaholic and so he kept the business going so mom would have a place to work. they were always very supportive of each other. in fact, i never met two people who worked so diligently on their relationship together.

the ol'man never would have sacrificed his retirement for his kids. but he worked until he died to keep mom happy. they worked and worked and worked but it had little to do with money.
 

I think Rich hit it right on earlier when he said that spending money on kids disproportionately to your means is only one way to make RE difficult financially. You could also be living in an excessively large house, paying for an unneeded FA, not doing a good job with tax planning, buying loaded funds, accumulating unnecessary "stuff," and on and on and on.......

There have been a lot of interesting anecdotal examples of disproportionately generous gifting from parents to adult children given in this thread and I'm sure they're all accuate and true. But I must say that in the dozens of households (relatives, friends, etc.) we're familiar with, we know of only one example where we'd question the level of financial support the parents are giving an adult child. On the other hand, we're familar with several situations where the adult children have stepped in to be extremely helpful to their parents, financially and in other ways.

I don't think this subject can be painted with a broad brush.
 
What happened? Were certain (explicit or implicit) conditions attached?
Not verbally but effectively yes. They've never felt comfortable relinquishing control.

The money came across during the late '90s bull markets and I suspect that by 2002 they sincerely regretted gifting it. We've always kept spouse's "gift" money separate from the ER portfolio, but as we were raising our ER equity allocation they were going into 100% Treasuries & CDs and they weren't happy with the Fed slashing interest rates. By 2004 they were squeezing nickels until the buffalo whimpered.

I bet they were as tired of telling us their "sure hope you know what you're doing" attitude as we were of hearing it. I don't think they'll ever buy a stock or an equity fund again, and I think they felt we were foolishly risking our savings with our allocation. We could never get them to accept that a federal pension is the equivalent of I bonds.

Spouse will probably use their gift money for their long-term care expenses (if necessary), and I wouldn't be surprised if someday they asked for it back. I don't mind managing our finances but I don't enjoy back-seat stewardship.
 
But if we're just talking about whether or not to give money to your kids, I like the Buffett approach: Give them enough so that they can do anything, but not so much that they can do nothing.

That quote makes a nice soundbyte but I think it has little practical value. You can do nothing with nothing (or very little). You can do anything with anything - or nothing! I know many people who could retire but keep working because they enjoy what they do or the challenge.

I think it comes down to a person's character and work ethic, and how they were raised, not how much money they may have been left.

Look at the biggest expenses that a young family w/ kids faces: private school tuition, college tuition, extra education and enrichment opportunities, an expensive house (if you want to live in a nice/safe area), health care (dental, orthodontics), etc. I always saw family wealth as a way to help provide these things for the youngest generation. Maybe that is because I was raised around a lot of immigrant families whose attitudes seem to differ from the traditional blue collar American attitudes.
 
That quote makes a nice soundbyte but I think it has little practical value.
Sorry, my family & friends have conditioned me to keep my Buffett bites short & sweet. But since you asked...

You can do nothing with nothing (or very little). You can do anything with anything - or nothing!
He's publicly mentioned paying for college degrees and buying houses for his kids. His oldest son is on the board (and will probably continue as Chairman) so he's taken care of by the company payroll and whatever shares are handed out to directors. Another son is a performing artist who's mentioned his father's support of his projects. And Buffett even put up with a divorced daughter-in-law writing a book about him.

But all the kids appear to be continuing to work by choice at least as much as by budget. I'm not sure about the subsequent generation(s), but I'm pretty confident that they won't be cluttering up the Forbes 400 list like the Walton heirs.

I know many people who could retire but keep working because they enjoy what they do or the challenge.
And more power to them-- if they've found their avocation then they'll never have to work again! But it's awfully hard to distinguish avocations vs jobs among those who claim to have found their bliss while they're actually working to be able to pay their bills.

I know a retired flag officer who's nearly 80 years old and receiving what has to be at least six-figure federal pension with a COLA. He claims that he's enjoying himself too much to quit but his spouse pulled mine aside and asked how we managed to retire. My spouse started talking about savings, mutual funds, ETFs, stocks, and owning our house. His spouse said "Oh, we never had any of that." My spouse asked "What, stocks?" and she replied "No, savings"...

I think it comes down to a person's character and work ethic, and how they were raised, not how much money they may have been left.
We all know posters on this board, ER'd or close to it, whose siblings or parents have nowhere near the skills, knowledge, or intent to be able to ER.

I think that a person's character & work ethic will develop until the development is halted by affluenza. That seems to happen to some kids as teenagers while others manage to make it to adulthood and do just fine. I suspect it's a function of how much of other people's money you can get your hands on.

Look at the biggest expenses that a young family w/ kids faces: private school tuition, college tuition, extra education and enrichment opportunities, an expensive house (if you want to live in a nice/safe area), health care (dental, orthodontics), etc. I always saw family wealth as a way to help provide these things for the youngest generation. Maybe that is because I was raised around a lot of immigrant families whose attitudes seem to differ from the traditional blue collar American attitudes.
I think it's a parent's obligation to give the kids the tools they need to succeed after high school. For some parents it's a hammer & screwdriver, for other parents it's an entire NASCAR mechanic's trailer. And some parents will even build the kid's house, fill it with furniture, and provide 24/7 room service.

I think that parents should provide the basics of housing, food, clothing, education, and a safe/loving environment. But by the time they're teenagers you'll be able to figure out whether it's worth paying for their college education or suggesting that they apply to a nice military academy. Any support beyond high school has to be weighed against the consideration that it could very well delay the parent's own retirement.
 
I think it's a parent's obligation to give the kids the tools they need to succeed after high school. For some parents it's a hammer & screwdriver, for other parents it's an entire NASCAR mechanic's trailer. And some parents will even build the kid's house, fill it with furniture, and provide 24/7 room service.
I agree. I see where some parents' ability to let go of their kids has just as much to do with their own self identity as it does with wanting what is best for their child or adult child. (If the adult child 'fails', I have 'failed'.) Hence, the adult kid 'must' have the right address and mix in the right circles and the parents make sure of it by providing as much as they can to shore the kid up.

IMO, this 'help' cripples the adult child. The adult child never really makes his own decisions and takes the consequences for them. He's always looking over his shoulder either for approval or for help.

Any support beyond high school has to be weighed against the consideration that it could very well delay the parent's own retirement.
Again, very practical advice.

Be well,
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement
 
He's publicly mentioned paying for college degrees and buying houses for his kids. His oldest son is on the board (and will probably continue as Chairman) so he's taken care of by the company payroll and whatever shares are handed out to directors. Another son is a performing artist who's mentioned his father's support of his projects. And Buffett even put up with a divorced daughter-in-law writing a book about him.

There is some interesting information about Buffett's relationship with his kids in Roger Lowenstein's Buffett: The Making of an American Capitalist.

Re the erstwhile daughter-in-law's book: Buffett didn't have any real choice but to "put up with" it, did he? In any case, as I recall it is very admiring, to the point of being fawning.

I know a retired flag officer who's nearly 80 years old and receiving what has to be at least six-figure federal pension with a COLA. He claims that he's enjoying himself too much to quit but his spouse pulled mine aside and asked how we managed to retire. My spouse started talking about savings, mutual funds, ETFs, stocks, and owning our house. His spouse said "Oh, we never had any of that." My spouse asked "What, stocks?" and she replied "No, savings"...

Well, I guess they don't really need any savings, with that gold-plated pension. So he probably can afford to quit (I take it he has a post-retirement job on civvie street?) any time he wishes.

I think that parents should provide the basics of housing, food, clothing, education, and a safe/loving environment. But by the time they're teenagers you'll be able to figure out whether it's worth paying for their college education or suggesting that they apply to a nice military academy. Any support beyond high school has to be weighed against the consideration that it could very well delay the parent's own retirement.

Well said.
 
3. Public schools are free.

Not really. I would say "you get what you pay for", but that isn't exactly true in this case... you (all of us, actually) pay far, far too much for public education, and the result that we get is a sad joke. Sending your kids to public indoctrination centers is far too likely to leave them with a legacy of misery... unable to think creatively or rationally, pumped full of liberal, politically-correct nonsense, and basically not able to compete in the real world.

if I had kids, I would send them to a private school that was accountable to me, that had to compete for my dollars and earn them with results.
 
Well, I guess they don't really need any savings, with that gold-plated pension. So he probably can afford to quit (I take it he has a post-retirement job on civvie street?) any time he wishes.
You would hope so, since if his pension has kept up with inflation it's roughly $105K/year plus Social Security & Medicare.

He has the "usual retired flag officer" part-time job, consultancy, and directorships. Perhaps he's bringing home another $60K-70K/year, although he didn't say.

But the guy is at least 75 years old (USNA '50) and he's not lookin' happy about working. I don't know about his alimony/mortgage/college situation and whether he's paying for other family... he was wearing a $60 Reyn Spooner aloha shirt to a class reunion, too, but that's probably a middle-of-the-road price.

I think he's spent the last six decades working and doesn't know how to quit, let alone how to track expenses and LBYM. We're separated by a lot more than a few ranks & years.

you (all of us, actually) pay far, far too much for public education
Yeah, especially those overpaid rock-star* teachers!

if I had kids, I would send them to a private school that was accountable to me, that had to compete for my dollars and earn them with results.
Has anyone on this board ever found a school like that?

Admittedly we've only raised one kid and done local private-school research (public school's worked out much better) but I'd say the only school meeting those criteria would be: homeschool.

*(For some of you readers, let me clarify: That's sarcasm.)
 
Last edited:
Public, private its all the same it boils down to the kid.

Has anyone on this board ever found a school like that?

Admittedly we've only raised one kid and done local private-school research (public school's worked out much better) but I'd say the only school meeting those criteria would be: homeschool.

*(For some of you readers, let me clarify: That's sarcasm.)[/quote]
 
I think getting money from parents or giving money are both hard on everyone. In 1985 my dad gave me 13K, I was divorced and just starting to figure out how to get a house. I offered a low a ball offer on a tiny house and was starting to save. Dad's gift went to 11,500 down on a 51,500 house and closing cost. Dad was happy he wanted me to have a house. I was rather sad because I wanted to do it myself and I would have but couldn't turn down the gift.
This last Christmas I gave my nephew $5K because his wife was sick and he was having problems paying the bills. Now he has remodeled his basement and seems to be recklessly spending. My gift was a gift with no strings but it still feels wrong that he didn't learn to save for the next time his wife is sick or if she dies. She can't get life insurance and probably won't live to 50 so he needs to learn not to live on her income. I know I have no right to tell him how to live and I bet he feels he should feel guilty when he waste money after getting a gift.
I don't regret gifting him the money, he needed it and it was interesting to feel how it felt. My investments have gone up 50K since I gave him the 5K so it is like tithing, letting money go.
 
old woman
My gift was a gift with no strings but it still feels wrong that he didn't learn to save for the next time his wife is sick or if she dies. ......I gave him the 5K so it is like tithing, letting money go.
I can understand how that would be difficult - wanting him to 'learn' a special lesson, or to pay certain bills with your financial gift. That's a good attitude to view it as a tithing.

We can't control other people at all, can we?

Thanks for sharing.

Be well,
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement
 
old woman

I can understand how that would be difficult - wanting him to 'learn' a special lesson, or to pay certain bills with your financial gift. That's a good attitude to view it as a tithing.

We can't control other people at all, can we?

Thanks for sharing.

Be well,
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement

He did spend the money wisely, paid bills, saved some for his property taxes and paid down some principal on his car. I knew decades ago that the only person I can control is me. I have been waiting and watching hoping favorite nephew would mature but I don't tell him when he isn't doing things my way. I divorced my ex without once trying to change him, didn't want him the way he was so I left, didn't bother to even tell him why. I found help for myself to change my reactions to him but I didn't try to change him.
I always try to remember I am not right I am just me. Some of us are saver and happy, some spenders are happy. Some spend it all and stay in debt and retire dead broke and aren't sorry they didn't save. They could think I am wrong to save and do without to retire in comfort. They don't have to be me and I don't have to be right.
 
Back
Top Bottom